|
The question here is, would a rogue taking ten levels in Master Spy be useful in an adventure like savage tide, or would all of their social abilities be wasted? The player wants to know if they will have to opportunity to infiltrate enemy dungeons, maybe scout out a room, see what's in it, then disguise themselves as a bad guy and walk in and try and ambush the bad guys. also a concern is will they be able to make good and solid use of their social abilities and extremely high bluff and disguise? I havn't had a chance to read past the first few books yet so I cannot tell them this with certainty.
any experienced savage tiders wanna chime in?
|
|
While I don't have the APG in front of me, I'd say not as much; having played/playing Savage Tide, only in the beginning is there a urban setting. Most of it is in the wilderness/at sea.
Don't get me wrong; Diplomacy, Bluff, and other social abilites will come into play, but not in a full 'sociable' Master Spy build without some combat options, IMO.
|
|
well, here's the build... they CAN fight, the end up with +13 BAB and 10d6 sneak attack. The idea is they can take a full round of actions in a surprise round with the bandit archetype, and will use this to their advantage to get the drop on enemies after impersonating their friends or allies to get close. Taking the level in assassin allows the character access to death attack at level seven, rather than at level 14, which is a huge benefit, and makes that ambush even more effective. does this help?
LE Male Kitsune
Rogue 6/Assassin 1/Master Spy 10/Assassin 2/Rogue 1
second level in assassin earlier if getting caught flat-footed a lot
Str 12-2
Dex 17+2 (all)
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 12+2
Trait: Reactionary
Trait: Suicidal (taken for character reasons with DM approval)
Trait: Steadfast Loyalty (campaign feat/trait)
Flaw: undetermined
Racial: Gregarious
Racial: Fast Change
Archetype: Kitsune Trickster
Archetype: Bandit
Favored Class: (1-6) Rogue Talent, (7) Skill
Skills: 9 max (eventual ending ranks at lvl 20)
Sense Motive 5 (max from headband of int)
Linguistics 1 or knowledge local 1
Acrobatics max
Disguise max
Bluff max
Diplomacy max
Perception max
Stealth max
Slight of Hand max
Escape Artist (max from headband of int)
UMD max
Disable Device max
knoweledges 1 each (4)
-Arcana, Religion, Nature & Planes
climb 1
swim 1
1- Quick Draw
2R Finesse Rogue
3- Iron Will
4R Combat Trick: Two-Weapon Fighting
5- Great Fortitude
6R Weapon Training: Dagger
R Trap Spotter, fast stealth or underhanded
7- Deceitful
9- Improved Initiative
11- Improved Two-Weapon Fighting
13- Improved Critical: Dagger
15- Combat Reflexes
17- Toughness
19- Defensive Combat Training
RPG Superstar 2013 Top 32
|
Once you get to the Isle of Dread you will be a bit out of your element at first. Shipwreck, jungles, not much social. Disguise stuff could come in handy during the bit with the skinwalkers, but then in Lightless Depths you'd need polymorph to be able to disguise yourself as those bad guys!
IMO disguise and all variety of social skills would be very, very useful in Ch 7 on, particularly in Ch 11, in which the party's social capabilities will literally save the world.
TL;DR you'll have chances to shine in Chs 1-3 or so, then Chs 4-6 are not socially oriented, then you will shine all the time in Chs 7-12.
|
|
well, here's the build... they CAN fight, the end up with +13 BAB and 10d6 sneak attack. The idea is they can take a full round of actions in a surprise round with the bandit archetype, and will use this to their advantage to get the drop on enemies after impersonating their friends or allies to get close. Taking the level in assassin allows the character access to death attack at level seven, rather than at level 14, which is a huge benefit, and makes that ambush even more effective. does this help?
Ah, I understand now. An interesting combination, and while it can be pulled off, you may not get a lot of the social features of the class.
Taking more levels in assassin instead of the full spymaster might be a bit more beneficial.
|
|
why do you say more levels in assassin? all that gives me is more saves vs poison, and slightly more sneak attack. Could you explain why? And thank you so much Charlie, that's great, it'll work wonders. As for the combat ability of the class, they end up at +14 bab, which is slightly less than a pure rogue, (one less in fact), which can be made up for with some spells, or just dealt with. Any suggestions on how to get more attack bonuses? he considered doing one-handed an dervish dancer, but the daggers are easier to hide, and more versatile.
The other question he had was, should he put the base five ranks in sense motive and rely on all his bonuses to carry him (and eventually get a headband that gives him max ranks in it) and max our slight of hand, or max sense motive and get the headband for slight of hand? In order to max the slight of hand with real ranks, he'll have to give up a few other skills he was going to put one rank in. he wants to be able to hide weapons on his person, but he isn't planning on doing lots of pick pocketing, though he might if he's able to infiltrate the enemy. He just doesnt know which will be more useful.
|
|
Sorry; was a bit hasty in responding, but yes, I thought more sneak attack would be better as opposed to the more 'disguise/social' abilities. u.u
If he's confident in using that PrC, then s/he'll pull it off.
I think Sense Motive should be higher than Sleight; my reasoning, as a player, there were some damn sneaky person(s) he'll encounter.
While we're only about 50% of the way through the adventure path (doing a side adventure after TLD) my feeling is that such a character would often feel overshadowed in this path. It really doesn't feel like there is a good place for a rogue archtype character to fit in as a whole.
The combats are absolutely brutal slug fests - the result of the late 3.5 design cycle - which really penalizes a rogue's low attack bonus and difficulty in increasing it.
Socially, we've had some big social rolls, but not tons of big social rolls, enough to justify master spy. I'd also see a lot of problems in trying to infiltrate via disguise. Most of the master spy abilities work best in an urban campaign with lots of humanoids, not against outsiders and animals.
Overall my experience thus far says look for something more combat oriented.
While we're only about 50% of the way through the adventure path (doing a side adventure after TLD) my feeling is that such a character would often feel overshadowed in this path. It really doesn't feel like there is a good place for a rogue archtype character to fit in as a whole.
This is why you're missing it. The latter half of STAP is full of social stuff. I'd call it easily 60/40 social/slugfest, especially in the final two or three chapters.
|
|
I'll find some interesting ways to work it. I'm only one BAB behind a normal rogue. I also have a full 10d6 sneak attack. and you'd be surprised what you can do with disguise. I could disguise myself as a demon, or an animal, you just have to think outside of the box.
my build is above, you dont think that would work?
I think the last 5 adventures are full of social stuff. However, it depends on the player group as well. Some situations can be solved with violence or with diplomacy. It depends on what the rest of the group prefers.