Goblin Squad Member
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@Kryzbyn, Ryan is already committed to ensuring that New Players aren't at a permanent competitive disadvantage to Veteran Players, by making the Skill Trees very broad but fairly shallow. It seems to me this would also apply to anyone who decided to abandon a particular career track - they won't be at a permanent disadvantage.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It appears the crux of your issue lies with the idea that GW is going to back-track and add lower levels skills into the game after EE starts.
I may be completely off base but the impression I've gotten is that all the skills are going to be in a huge tree. The base of which will be in the game when EE start's...say the trunk of the tree up to the first branches..will be in at the commencement of EE. So there's going to be alot of general skill's for everyone to pick from..some maybe good for your target character and others not so much. Gw will be adding skills throughout EE...building the skill tree equally across the board based on the earliest you could actually acquire that skill. Not focusing on finishing an entire skill tree for wizards..then finishing the skill tree for Fighters..etc.
Some "classes" (which I really wish we'd stop using that word) won't be added for awhile (Monk anyone..?) so I'm not sure what they're planning on doing with it. If they have "Feat's" like the PnP game then you can still take unarmed strike..improved unarmed strike..etc..basicly building a "Monk" without the uber kool mid to upper level Monk-Stuff.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'll just wait until the class or skill options I want are available before I start playing, I guess.Your loss.
Did I hurt your feelings? What was the point of that?
It wouldn't be my loss, if what everyone is saying is true, I'll just only have skills I need want, instead of wasted skill points used in skills I wont use. And I'll be able to catch up quickly, apparently.
How would that be my loss?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Kryzbyn, Ryan is already committed to ensuring that New Players aren't at a permanent competitive disadvantage to Veteran Players, by making the Skill Trees very broad but fairly shallow. It seems to me this would also apply to anyone who decided to abandon a particular career track - they won't be at a permanent disadvantage.
That would be true, and acceptable if there is a maximum value one can assign to any given skill. Then you could catch up, I suppose, and quickly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think Drakhan was trying to slight or offend you.
My perspective is that you can start whenever you like...which means I'll start at the soonest possible moment I can. That's because, to me, the best part of this game is going to be helping to shape it. Being there to help build the first towns, to meet the character that eventually becomes "King" when he was no better than me, to create friendships and enemies that make PFO seem to live and breath for everyone. This is going to be a Sandbox for us to play in...there won't be a "Winner". Perhaps if you think of it as more of a team sport..in which starting early gives you the benefit of picking your team from the get go (instead of hoping that you get chosen for the team later on).
I think he was thinking more along those lines when he said "Your loss." Because from a certain perspective it is.
I plan on playing a Ranger...but it's not going to be an available "Class" when EE starts. That doesn't mean that I'm waiting until they come out with "Ranger's" (banners fly and the heralds start playing)...because it's going to be a skill based game(No classes...so why do we keep re-hashing classes). So I'll take archery skills, survival skills, some sword play skills, some sneaky/hidey skills, etc. It will end up playing a heck of a lot like a Ranger. Even though there's no "Class" called Ranger.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think Drakhan was trying to slight or offend you.
My perspective is that you can start whenever you like...which means I'll start at the soonest possible moment I can. That's because, to me, the best part of this game is going to be helping to shape it. Being there to help build the first towns, to meet the character that eventually becomes "King" when he was no better than me, to create friendships and enemies that make PFO seem to live and breath for everyone. This is going to be a Sandbox for us to play in...there won't be a "Winner". Perhaps if you think of it as more of a team sport..in which starting early gives you the benefit of picking your team from the get go (instead of hoping that you get chosen for the team later on).
I think he was thinking more along those lines when he said "Your loss." Because from a certain perspective it is.
I plan on playing a Ranger...but it's not going to be an available "Class" when EE starts. That doesn't mean that I'm waiting until they come out with "Ranger's" (banners fly and the heralds start playing)...because it's going to be skill based game(No classes...so why do we keep re-hashing classes). So I'll take archery skills, survival skills, some sword play skills, some sneaky/hidey skills, etc. It will end up playing a heck of a lot like a Ranger. Even though there's no "Class" called Ranger.
Throw in the bit where we don't have to spend our points until we feel like it, and you're just slowing yourself down by not starting early . . . even if you don't spend a point until your preferred skill comes out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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That doesn't change the fact that in a competetive game like this, if options you've picked were in error, suddenly changing track to put points in different skills (skills that may not have even been available prior) puts you pretty far back, and you're no longer up with the leaders, due to no fault of your own.
It also doesn't change the fact that no matter how you spin it, that previous real-life time used was a waste.
It will not set you far back. They have stated that the power curve will be relatively flat.
The real life time you used was not a waste, you now know what it is you do not want to do.
No game that has been skill based like this has allowed respecs. Do not expect it.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Kryzbyn, Ryan is already committed to ensuring that New Players aren't at a permanent competitive disadvantage to Veteran Players, by making the Skill Trees very broad but fairly shallow. It seems to me this would also apply to anyone who decided to abandon a particular career track - they won't be at a permanent disadvantage.That would be true, and acceptable if there is a maximum value one can assign to any given skill. Then you could catch up, I suppose, and quickly.
Yeah I haven't heard anything to even imply a soft cap system (IE skills can go up infinitely, but at a repeatedly slow rate). For the most part from what I've heard from GW they expect people to be working on a new role in 2.5 years, I've heard nothing to imply people are going to be working their swordsmanship to level 2000000, plus considering they pointed out most of the areas it varries from eve, eve had hard caps and they haven't mentioned any plans to stray from that.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Seeing as there is no limit other then time to how many skills you have access to the only way we specialize is slotting badges. Therefore re-slotting badges is defacti respeccing.
Also: EE is a Beta. Not a buggy beta but a Beta. So concerns that people are paying for testing a product are completely legitimate. It's everyone's own responsibility to decide if testing a product is worth paying for.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Seeing as there is no limit other then time to how many skills you have access to the only way we specialize is slotting badges. Therefore re-slotting badges is defacti respeccing.
Hmm yeah it can be compared to The Secret World I suppose. There you can have seven active and seven passive abilities slotted, you can swap out abilities anytime you're not in combat. "The levelling up" is done primarily by purchasing new abilities from gained XP. There is no limit to how much XP you can gain and how many abilities you can purchase.
They have changed how certain abilities work since release, in some cases drastically. They have also added new abilities. They have never offered people their XP back so they could undo their old choices.
It makes perfect sense there and I think it will in PFO also.
Allowing respecs at some point will seriously decrease the value of payed subscription, it is a an ugly can of worms best left alone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Most of the cases where CCP has issued skill point refunds where extreme system overhauls like a skill being completely removed or replaced. As far as I'm aware TSW didn't have cases to that extent. Also TSW uses a system where you earn skills points through play and not only through paying subscription.
Let me put it this way. If GW chooses to remove a skill completely from the game I think it would be appropriate to refund the skill points for it. Not fundamentally required, but appropriate.
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Goblin Squad Member
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So yeah:
-there is a way to specialize.
-there is a way to change the specialization if you are not happy with it.
(Through slotting other badges of spending more time earning more skill points to buy more badges)
Keep in mind that the number of skill points in WoW style skill systems is not the equivalent to the number of skill points in TSW or PFO. It's the equivalent of the number of skill slots/badge slots. You have to look at it from the perspective how you specialize. Otherwise the comparison makes no sense.
