| Michael_Morris |
So, I've finished re-evaluating my setting spells and rebalancing them for Pathfinder - at least through to a 1st draft. I need help spotting for errors or play balance problems - and with this many spells there's got to be at least one.
The spells are in a PDF document here..
https://www.facebook.com/download/148525221966408/Pathfinder%20Spells%20-%2 0Draft.pdf
There is a group there to join for discussion on the spells if you wish. I'll watch for posts over here for at least awhile.
The spells individually should work on any setting.
To save space, if the casting time is omitted, it's "1 standard action" If the components are omitted, its "V, S" and for divine casters "DF" as well.
| Kalridian |
Looks interesting, I'll probably read over it tomorrow. Would you care to explain the new spell descriptors you have added?
| Michael_Morris |
In the setting all magic ultimately comes from one of five deities known as the exarchs. They are sort of like Ao from the Realms in that they don't receive direct worship or have any dealings with mortals. Their touch is felt however in that there are five outer planes, and there are five alignments and everything is aligned.
The descriptors of these alignments are:
Aboran or “green” spells are concerned with driving the forces of natural growth. Commoners often beseech druids and other casters of this magic to use their powers to insure a good harvest or to stave off nature’s wrath. However Abora can also invoke such wrath and will often do so to destroy the forces it views as enemies. Aboran philosophy is concerned with birth, growth, and renewal, and as such most of the spells that enhance living creatures belong to it.
Balcran magic doesn’t commonly enter the thoughts of the commonfolk, for it is the magic of thought and possibility – and with that comes illusions, divinations and other highly subtle spells. If this was all Balcran magic could do it would quickly fall behind the other types in power, but oddly a Balcran wizard is the one all others are loathe to fight a spell duel with for this philosophy has the some of the most powerful metamagic spells at its disposal giving it the ability to quickly adapt its already flexible spell selection to the needs at hand. It is also readily able to dispel or counterspell the threats opponents raise against it.
Shunra: The often fiery magics of Shunra are known as “red magic.” Among commoners these spells rank right up with violet magic as being the most feared of spells. While Shunra is denounced as a magic of destruction, it is reality a magic of unbridled passion. It is active, energetic, primal and when need be it is furious. Easily the most offensive minded of the alignments when it comes to spell application, Shunran magic isn't especially good at protection or dispelling threats.
Sodra's magic is the most feared since it is the magic of death, fear and darkness. While Sodran philosophy is centered around the individual, the magic of Sodra consists of the very forces which constrain an individual and forces to transcend them, such as the magic of undeath. Many claim Sodra's spells are inherently evil and cannot be used for good, but the proponents of the philosophy have never been ones to concern themselves with such outmoded concepts as good and evil.
Finally, the philosophy of Valra, that community is pre-eminent, shines through in its magic with an abundant selection of spells to ward and heal members of the community. Spells which invoke the wills of the deities worshiped in the community tend also to be Valran. Valran magic is sometimes called yellow or gold magic.
If you aren't interested in this alignment system - inspired by a certain collectible card game - you can ignore it for most of the spells in the PDF. There are a few however that care about spell alignment.
While those are the most obvious 5 descriptors, here are some of the other new ones in brief:
Abjuration spells are divided evenly between two subscools - dispel and ward.
Divination spells are divided between Insight, Sensory and Scrying.
Enhancement spells enhance something about the target - an ability score or saving throw - or confer an ability - like the shocking weapon property.
Evocation has a new subschool - Invocation - which are the spells that channel a deity's personal power or authority.
Metamagic spells alter the casting ability of creatures or the spells themselves. Imbue with Spell ability is a core rules example.
Time spells alter time - Time Stop, Slow, Haste from the core are here.
Finally wild spells are wild magic.
INCANTATIONS & RITUALS
In short, a spell with a full round casting time or less is an incantation, otherwise it's a ritual. Wizards cast rituals directly from their spellbook, Sorcerers must use a scroll or a ritual book, Clerics must refer to a prayerbook and so on. Rituals simply take too long to memorize any significant part of them, and the longest rituals can take many hours to cast.
The sorcerer class is the most affected by this change. Spells like scrying and sending are now available to sorcerers without occupying one of their precious spells known slots.
A character can perform any number of rituals so long as their spell levels do not exceed her character level. So a 9th level character can perform a 5th level ritual and a 4th level ritual in the same day, or a 4th level ritual and 5 1st level rituals in one day, and so on.
Non-spellcasters may also attempt rituals if they have a spellcraft skill. They may perform a ritual if they have more ranks in spellcraft than twice the spell's level (a 5th level spell takes 10 ranks in spellcraft to cast). The combined level of the rituals performed cannot exceed half the character's ranks in spellcraft. Hence a 10th level fighter with 10 ranks in spellcraft can perform one 5th level ritual. For purposes of this rule divine and arcane spellcraft are separate skills. The character's caster level is their ranks in spellcraft.
Some incantations can be cast as rituals for greater effect, usually in terms of their duration. When this is the case the spell description will have notes for its use as a ritual. When a spellcaster has an incantation prepared or knows it as a spell they may choose to use the spell slot to cast the ritual instead of having it count against their rituals limit for the day.
X LEVEL SPELLS
A spell with a level of X has a scaling effect depending on what level they where prepared at or cast from. If they have a minimum level they can be cast at it will be noted as "4+X" for a spell with a minimum level of 5. X can never be 0 for these spells. Wizards learn these spells normally, but they take up space in their spell book equal to the highest level the wizard can cast them at.
When a sorcerer learns an X level spell he chooses a spells known slot for it and may cast the spell at that level or lower. Whenever he gains a level he may promote the X level spell into recently gained spells known slots and immediately choose a replacement for it in the slot it occupied - this is in addition to any other spell swaps he may be entitled to perform at that level.
X spells go a long way towards creating true parity between sorcerer and wizard, but their major purpose is to streamline scaling spell descriptions. Pain Touch and Oathbind are the two most illustrative spells of this.
Keep in mind this document is a first draft. There will be bugs (I know of a few already)
| Jezai |
I've looked over all the spells that start with A and B and you have quite a bit of work to do.
Although the spells have flavor, and there is a clear effort to create unique and interesting spells, they are wildly out of balance. Almost every spell I saw had issues and almost all of them have formatting errors. The entire document needs a solid shakedown and look over.
Abundance- Create water is a zero level spell so allowing a third level to give you more water is rather pointless. Goodberries at level 1 already provide nutrition as does dream feast.
Accelerated Decay- Should probably be 1rnd/lvl.
Acid rain- Bordering overpowered. Conjuration creates, it does not transmute.
Addle- Very underpowered. I am very unlikely to know what kind of spells a wizard has prepared, and even if I guess correctly (or research) this spell becomes meaningless at higher levels. At low levels I could be casting sleep or color spray to simply take the wizard out of combat. Range is also unusual for a level 1 spell.
Aether Slide- Blink is third level and does almost the same thing. Except it doesn’t wait for you to get hit first. Also what does “hit by a spell” mean? If I target someone with a hold person who is under the effects of this spell, are they hit by it? Before they save? After? Not at all? Also this spell needs a saving throw. Screws over almost any individual creature hard if used as a debuff.
Afflict-Interesting, but I can’t see a magus wanting to use this over their standard “Shocking Grasp”
Aggravated Assault- No, no no. Overpowered as heck will break any game.
Alluring scent- A decent spell for certain situations but bards don’t prepare spells. So I can’t see them wanting to waste a spell slot on this early. (And later it stops working)
Arc lighting- needs reflex half.
Armor of thorns- probably not worth it. 1d6 is not a lot of damage.
Attunement- Mnemonic Enhancer does practically the same thing but doesn’t cost an extra spell.
Blade storm- What action to move the barrier?
Blinding light-too powerful.
Blood pet- Strictly worse then summon monster.
Bloodlust- Barbarian rage provides a MORALE bonus. Not a rage bonus. Otherwise its worthless as a debuff(You would only use it on big melee guys, and it says nothing about what order the creature must kill in, such as “Closest target” so that big bad monster just got badder and will still kill you first. You still recognize your allies even with low intelligence. Also this should count as a compulsion.)
Break slumber- Overpowered should be third level.
Bright circle- overpowered. Will automatically end encounters involving undead.
Brute resolve- Whats the point of this? To buff the barbarian for a higher caster level? Do you mean to use it to make thralls? What is the purpose of this spell?
Buried alive- the spell should give an idea of what it would take to break out. I know what kind of strength check I need to break through a wall of stone, but moving through several feet of dirt? What happens when I cast this and there is a stone floor beneath the target? Or a hazard?
| Michael_Morris |
I've looked over all the spells that start with A and B and you have quite a bit of work to do.
Although the spells have flavor, and there is a clear effort to create unique and interesting spells, they are wildly out of balance. Almost every spell I saw had issues and almost all of them have formatting errors. The entire document needs a solid shakedown and look over.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. Responses
Abeyance - No, quite on target, you forget how powerful Silence is. Silence has a longer range, stops over 95% of the spells in the game, can be cast on an object and thrown at the target to disrupt a spell mid casting with no save or spell resistance roll allowed.
Abundance - Goodberry can feed two to eight people. Abundance can feed two to eight HUNDRED people, possibly more, by passing the container around. The spell is based on the miracle of the loaves and fish from the Bible. It's not going to be used frequently (which is why its a ritual) by adventurers, but in a famine struck area it could be used to alleviate a lot of suffering or, conceivably, keep a small village from going under.
Accelerated Decay has a duration of 1 round / 2 levels because it deals out 2 dice of damage each round - this works out to 1d8 / caster level for a 3rd level against a specific range of targets. Changing it's duration to 1 round / level will double its damage and put it far out of scope with pretty much every spell in the game. Also, the spell is a druid answer to undead - while better than no answer it shouldn't eclipse clerical answers.
Acid Rain won't be the only spell that slides out of school in certain modes. Guards & Wards holds the record for most over the map craziness in this regard.
Addle - "Shunra" or "Balcra" will almost certainly nail a wizard every time; "Valra" will hit a cleric, "Abora" will hit a druid. "Sodra" is chancy unless your dealing with a wizard or cleric known to love undead. While you can pick the other descriptors, the five tend to be the most effective. That said, the spell is still relatively weak, especially since it's a willpower save. Removing the saving throw is one possibility, but feels heavy handed.
Afflict exists to show the low level base line of these type of effects.
Aggravated Assault is only broken if the campaign is broken. It's very much a litmus test against the balance of other factors in the game. If your game is balanced it's a niche spell - because circumstances where your own character's actions aren't worth as much as another character's actions should be rare (aggravated assault on the party fighter while fighting an iron golem is nice). However, I know the spell can get out of hand with a 5th level caster alongside a 10th level target for the spell, but I'll counter that isn't the spell's fault - rather the circumstances themselves are broken and unfun and the spell is only the messenger, not the guilty party.
Alluring Scent to 1st level perhaps? Its interaction with stinking cloud (countering it) is what prompted it's initial level assignment.
Arc Lighting does have reflex for half - this fact isn't repeated because it clearly states "As lightning bolt..." That means you start from lightning bolt's description and then apply the changes outlined therein. Redundant information, like the saving throw type, is omitted.
Speaking of ommission - You probably noted the components are, more often than not omitted, as is spell resistance. The reason is that to save space components are "V, S" unless the entry says otherwise, and spell resistance is "yes" unless it says otherwise, finally the casting time is "1 standard action" unless it says otherwise.
Armor of Thorns - 2d6 then?
Attunement - Mnuemonic enhancer takes 10 minutes to cast. Attunement is 1 action. Mnuemonic enchancer gives you a 3rd level spell, a 2nd and a 1st level spell, or 3 1st level spells. Attunement can get you an 8th level spell on the fly at its high end, and when you first can cast it then it can give you 2 new 3rd level spells in ONE ACTION at a cost of 2 4th level spells. There's a very big difference in the scope of these spells. Attunement likely needs to be toned down to be honest, but it's been left alone because its never been popular as is.
Befoul - I'll admit this one is funny to read more than practical. If a creature is hit by it the key effect is nauseated - that takes them out of the fight and makes all the other effects largely irrelevant. At the end of the day that's what this spell amounts to - fort save or be punched out of the fight.
Blade storm - directing spells with movable elements is a move equivalent action in general (see flamesphere) but that should be added to the spell's description - good catch.
Blinding light - justify too powerful. This is a light spell that can blind creatures vulnerable to it - but there's darkness at 2nd level that does the same thing in the same area of effect. This is a 4th level spell which adds a 1 round dazzle and effective darkness to light sensitive monsters on top of the effects of a 3rd level spell - daylight. As 4th level spells go I'd say its on the weak side.
Blood Pet - Yeah, the spell definitely needs to make the pet worth creating - but the flavor of losing hit points to create the beastie should remain. Ideas?
Break Slumber - No, 3rd level we have dispel magic which can dispel anything. That forces this spell to be 2nd because it is strictly worse than dispel magic - Fatigue effects are a very small subset of spells, this one is fine. Also, while it is true this has other applications, so does dispel magic and those applications (target dispel, counterspell) are generally more useful than dispelling natural fatigue.
Brute Resolve's primarily purpose is to be illustrative of Shunra's nature - of preferring strength and action to intelligence and contemplation. Exactly how to use it though is left open - all the uses you mention are valid.
Buried Alive - Digging out? That's at least a DC 30 check, more if the rock is heavier. As for a stone floor - earth means earth - not stone, wood or the like - so that needs to be clarified.
| Jezai |
Jezai wrote:I've looked over all the spells that start with A and B and you have quite a bit of work to do.
Although the spells have flavor, and there is a clear effort to create unique and interesting spells, they are wildly out of balance. Almost every spell I saw had issues and almost all of them have formatting errors. The entire document needs a solid shakedown and look over.
Thanks for taking the time to do this. Responses
1. You can move out of range of a thrown rock with a single move action if you aren't in close quarters. And a thrown rock can be deflected through other methods (monster throws it back, wind wall, etc) It needs a will save
2. It would still be better if there was some kind of way to determine how much food feeds how many people. I don't want to bust out a calculator to determine if x tribe still goes hungry or not. It would be easier to use if everything was just kept and in addition a line was added that said how many people were fed per caster level that would be good.
Guards and wards still covers an aburation ideal, protecting something. Acid rain would probably be one of the best blast spells in the game (its strictly more powerful then a intensified fireball) and would be a slap in the face to evocation.
addle- Yes, it hits them and then what? The wizard blows one level one spell and then hits you with a level five one. At low levels he'll blow a level one spell and then hit you with his level two spell. Its never worth it. Even without a will save.
Aggravated assault- I take a lesser rod of quickening and fill all my seventh level slots with quickened version of it and I give my imp familiar with UMD a wand of it. Its not balanced.
Alluring scent- Maybe, but still its a spell that might be good for one or two encounters (Maybe three?) and when it comes down to it a bard has to pick spells that she will be using every day. I could totally see this being used, just not by a bard (unless they used a scroll)
armor of thorns- 2d6 I could see using.
Attunement- I misread it. I thought that it would give a single third level spell not two. Yea its definetly overpowered because it makes wizards better then sorcs.
Blinding light- I missed the last sentence and thought blindness was permanent. So does the blindness go away when the spell ends or when they leave the spell area? Darkness can't really be compared because everything and its mother has darkvision.
Blood pet- I can't imagine making a spell thats both balanced and worth taking in this scenario. Summon monster already does everything a wizard wants it too. Maybe a swift action to sacrifice HP to add to the stats of a summoned monster spell as you cast it?
Break Slumber- I was comparing it to lesser restoration to keep a party going without needing to sleep. This spell won't be used much in battle since sleep effects are very rare, but in terms of utility everyone would have this on their spell list to never have to sleep again. (resting to recover spells yes, but never have to sleep)
Brute resolve- So you would use this when out of feeblemind, or to create your own mini army? Dominate person is already bad enough in that regard, I shouldn't have to worry about every monster I throw at the players being stolen and dragged around.
And I get trying to save space, but its not like this is going to go into print or anything, and adding every little detail such as saving throws or a more detailed description is useful, in addition to saying "This spell works like x"
| Michael_Morris |
1. You can move out of range of a thrown rock with a single move action if you aren't in close quarters. And a thrown rock can be deflected through other methods (monster throws it back, wind wall, etc) It needs a will save
Both of them need a will save. Abeyance does 1 thing that silence does, hence it is 1st level to silence's 2nd.
It would still be better if there was some kind of way to determine how much food feeds how many people. I don't want to bust out a calculator to determine if x tribe still goes hungry or not. It would be easier to use if everything was just kept and in addition a line was added that said how many people were fed per caster level that would be good.
I'm not trying to be mean, but I can only see the most pedantic of players and GM's having a problem with this spell leaving this out. That degree of nit picking just makes the whole experience of role playing a pain in the ass that I won't tolerate or cater for.
Guards and wards still covers an aburation ideal, protecting something. Acid rain would probably be one of the best blast spells in the game (its strictly more powerful then a intensified fireball) and would be a slap in the face to evocation.
You've made your point - It's level will be raised one step.
addle- Yes, it hits them and then what? The wizard blows one level one spell and then hits you with a level five one. At low levels he'll blow a level one spell and then hit you with his level two spell. Its never worth it. Even without a will save.
Change to
Aggravated assault- I take a lesser rod of quickening and fill all my seventh level slots with quickened version of it and I give my imp familiar with UMD a wand of it. Its not balanced.
Disagree - I've seen that trick played, and it just gets the imp hit with a kill spell in record time. The spell will stay, mainly because it's one of the spells that wasn't changed on this pass and its not been broken in games I've ran for the better part of 10 years.
Besides, if you think aggravated assault on a wand with an imp is bad, try an imp packing a wand of counterspell.
Alluring scent- Maybe, but still its a spell that might be good for one or two encounters (Maybe three?) and when it comes down to it a bard has to pick spells that she will be using every day. I could totally see this being used, just not by a bard (unless they used a scroll)...
Drop to 1st level, change bonus to +2 / level (max +10)
And it's not just saving space - reading "components: v, s" repeatedly bothers me. Also, I print these out for personal use on lulu.com so yes, printed length does matter.
| Michael_Morris |
By the way folks (if anyone other than Jezai is reading this), I'm wondering which type line works best.
School [Descriptor]
This is the current standard. Since spell alignments are descriptors this can work.
{Ritual} School [Descriptor]
Example: Ritual Necromancy [Death, Metamagic, Sodra]
This is what I'm currently using. Whether or not something is a ritual is vitally important as it governs whether the spell can be cast by non spell casters using spell craft of a sufficient rank (twice the spell's level, so non spellcasters can start casting rituals at level 2).
{Ritual} Alignment School [Descriptor]
Example: Ritual Sodran Necromancy [Death, Metamagic]
This puts emphasis on the alignment of the spell. All spells have an alignment in the setting. I'm leaning towards going through and applying this format, but figured I'd check for public opinion.
| Michael_Morris |
One of the spells in the document that has been a source of amusement in game time and again.
Donate
Transmutation [Balcra, Metamagic]
Level: Wiz 3
Range: Touch
Target: A spontaneous caster
Duration: 10 minutes / level (D)
Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless)
You must expend a spell preparation as an additional cost to cast this spell. The targeted creature may cast this spell as if the spell was on their list of known spells so long as it is on their class spell list and they are high enough level to cast it. (If either of these conditions isn’t true, donate has no effect).
| Michael_Morris |
This spell I wrote up a few moments ago to more fully fill the hole created by pulling Holy Word, Dictum, Word of Chaos and Blasphemy out of the game. Those spells (especially holy word and blasphemy) by their very names have a hero/villain light, and I want spell casters of all alignments to be able to be villains or heroes as necessary.
When considering balance keep in mind that any given character will have only one of these modes. Druids can use the Aboran version of this spell. The Valra and Sodra modes match up almost exactly with Holy Word and Blasphemy respectively.
Rebuke
Evocation (Invocation) [sonic]
Level: Clr 7, Drd 7
Components: V
Range: 40'
Area: Creatures which have any other alignment than yours in a 40' radius spread centered on you.
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will partial
You must be have only one alignment to cast this spell. You issue words of rebuke in the name of your divine patron that harm your foes.
Rebuke itself is actually five spells, one for each alignment, and the alignment of the rebuke determines its effect. You can only use the form of rebuke that matches your alignment. Rebuke replaces blasphemy and holy word in the core rules - what constitutes these terms is in the ear of the listener and the speaker.
When you are on your home plane outsiders within range of rebuke are banished unless they are from the plane of your alignment. This effect occurs whether they hear the rebuke or not. Creatures banished this way cannot return for at least 24 hours. This effect allows a will save to negate with a -4 penalty.
Rebuke inflicts up to four statuses on the creatures who hear it which have alignments differing from yours. A successful will save negates or reduces these statuses, but for each alignment they have directly opposed to yours the save has a -2 penalty (-4 if they have both your opposed alignments). The effects are cumulative and based on relative hit dice as follows:
HD -- Effect
Equal to caster level -- Minor
Up to caster level -1 -- Major
Up to caster level -5 -- Severe
Up to caster level -10 -- Deadly
Creatures whose hit dice exceed yours are unaffected by rebuke. For those affected the effects are as follows:
Abora
Minor: The creature is stunned for 1 round but defends itself normally.
Major: The creature is staggered for for 2d6 rounds, save for half.
Severe: The creature is paralyzed for 1d10 minutes, save to reduce to 1 round
Deadly: The creature is destroyed if undead or a construct (even a golem), living creatures are permanently polymorphed into a squirrel or similar harmless varmit. Save negates.
Balcra
Minor: The creature is dazed for 1 round but defends itself normally. Save negates
Major: The creature is fascinated for up to 2d6 rounds, save for half.
Severe: The creature is paralyzed for 1d10 minutes, save to reduce to 1 round
Deadly: The creature is feebleminded. Save negates, but the creature is dealt 3d6 damage + 1 point / caster level (max +25)
Shunra
Minor: The creature is dazed for 1 round but defends itself normally. Save negates
Major: The creature is shaken for 2d6 rounds, save for half.
Severe: The creature is confused for 1d10 minutes, save to reduce to 1 round
Deadly: The creature is petrified. Save negates, but the creature is dealt 3d8 damage + 1 point / caster level (max +25)
Sodra
Minor: The creature is dazed for 1 round but defends itself normally. Save negates
Major: The creature is weakened, its strength score dropping by 2d6 points for 2d4 rounds, save for half of each.
Severe: The creature is paralyzed for 1d10 minutes, save to reduce to 1 round
Deadly: The creature is killed if living, Undead and constructs are unaffected. Save negates, but the creature is dealt 3d8 damage + 1 point / caster level (max +25)
Valra
Minor: The creature is deafened 1d4 rounds, save negates
Major: The creature is blinded 2d4 rounds, save for half
Severe: The creature is paralyzed for 1d10 minutes, save to reduce to 1 round
Deadly: The creature is killed, or destroyed if undead. Constructs are unaffected. Save negates, but the creature is dealt 3d6 damage + 1 point / caster level (max +25)