I think this is a great way to get players not to dump charisma. But you have to expect that your players will have higher saves then normal and it will change game balance. I do not think that your oracle's ability further unbalances it. Also a Paladin could get even better saves by putting a high score into charisma just like the oracle.
Also I think adding +1 to a d20 roll is enough for people to consider not dumping it. Or maybe cut it down to only effect one save instead of all.
I think it is unfair to make the oracle pick another revelation. The revelation allows her to disregard dex more or less, and having that option might have affected her character choices.
Why do you choose the introduce this in an ongoing game? I expect that characters have been made already, so it can't change that much?
Basically I like it, however I am a bit cautious about granting additional bonuses to saves. In cannot on the top of my head say how it affect the balance of the game.
As your current predicament shows, cha-based characters are going to benefit a lot, oracles/sorcerers getting +2 or +3 to all their saves midlevel. This is definately a significant boost to saves.
And such a bonus might become problematic when combined with other sources of high saves.
Fundamentally I think, you should reskin the houserule, rather than making additional adjustments to the core rules. If introducing the rule causes problems, it is probably easier to adapt that one.
BTW, I love the whole 'granting' bonus to allies part. I my opinion, you should focus on that kind of bonusses.
I can't see sorcerers/oracles getting +3 to all saves by mid-level they would need a charisma of 28 to do that.
I've seen several sorcerer and oracles starting with 20 in charisma (although not so many at pt-buy 15).
Ability headbands being one of the primary magic items for casters, 22 at level 4 isn't unreasonable, granting +2 to all. At level 8, one or two ability increases, and an +4 headband, could readily increase that to 26.Of course it any specific build will deviate from this.
In my opinion it is a lot better to get a lower bonus to every save than a single one. Especially as druid and clerics A) already got a good will save, and B) Those two classes depend on more ability scores than sorcerers and oracles.
Imagine if this revelation was tied to another stat. Say a barbarian could pick up a rage power that allowed him to have AC and reflex saves covered by constitution instead of dexterity, would that be fair?
It doesn't make sense to compare it like this. Powers are created with a certain class/subclass choice in mind.
I really don't think that the mystery is overpowered to grant a lore oracle, whether or not your change is made. Most of their other mysteries is about making knowledge checks.How high is her reflex save going to be, since you are concerned?
Would you implement penalties to saves with a charisma penalty?
My characters sometimes have a low charisma, sometimes high. It just depends on the character. If you are feeling the need to create a house rule like this, then (IMO) it is a matter of players sticking to the same tricks instead of changing it up with each character. I wouldn't be on board with this.
Funny enough, I think charisma works pretty well as is. Obviously it may be dropped by people aside from spellcasters who use it as a casting stat or other classes that like it (Paladins and Ninjas come to mind), but on the flip side, how often is a full arcane caster going to put points into strength compared to just dropping it like a rock?
Different classes have different priorities. It is, admittedly, a shame that it doesn't do anything unless its through class features, but for the most part, I think it works okay.
That said, I do kind of like the idea of adding it to saves in that way. I don't think it's worth disallowing the revelation because of it though. Honestly, if she gets Charisma up to 30, that only means a bonus of +4 to Reflex (and that's if the odd extra goes into it).
With Sidestep Secret, that's another +10. On the other hand, when discussing ability scores of 30, that can mean a +10 to Fort, Ref, or Will anyway (a rogue may very well want 30 Dex, for example, and Clerics/Druids may love that much Wisdom), and by that point there's probably class differences on base saves of anywhere from 3 to 6. It's not that much of an outlier really, at least in my opinion.
know this is not what you are asking, but I would like to share how I "empower" CHA in my games. My GMring style is quite open, so I usually don't have prepared a lot of "details", That means that I ask for a lot of "Luck" checks. A typical luck check would be something like, Your characters are in a bar brawl when someone asks, Do I have a bottle to use as a weapon nearby?(Note that this is no perception you are actually modifing the existence of something)... So you roll 1d20+Chr mod. Look at the roll and if the roll is good, you tell him, yes there si a bottle at reach, for a bad roll, there is a bottle but further away so he needs to move to get it... but when Luck Rolls get especially fun is with particularly bad or good rolls... A typical extra-low roll would be "Yes there is one at hand" (but the bottle is actually an enlarge person potion and the slim drunk he was fighting now is a large muscular drunk(not much of a change but really funny to RP)... or with a particular high roll they get a bottle of a particular hard crystal that works like a +1 club...(After adding flavour to the bottle, that bottle is a keeper for the PJ, hell it can be even an adventure hook! -Find out what was inside that bottle.) I don't know it gives you an interesting mastering tool... and makes your characters think twice when dumping Chr... because that would mean being "unlucky". I also use general luck for the party, for this I randomly chose a party member and use his/her`s luck to the roll... so having low charisma can also mean bad luck for the party.
An example of "party luck" would be something like, if they are hunting down someone in a city and they are not being too successful (and you WANT them to find that someone because this is taking forever, after a while you roll randomly to choose someone... and tells him to roll luck. A good roll would mean that they just stumble upon the guy like "how Marcel finds Butch in pulp fiction" a great roll would mean that they find the guy and he hadn't noticed them and a bad roll would mean that they find the guy but he has some people with him and has notice their presence... you have the idea I hope!
I am glad that you like it! Having appropiate DCs as in skills checks would be really nice! So please share them with me once you got them.
|
Ahh, but the problem is that charisma is not the paladin's primary stat. Its typically strength.Also a Paladin could get even better saves by putting a high score into charisma just like the oracle.
Charisma IS typically the paladin's primary stat. Strength comes a close second, but most paladins I've come across pump Charisma first, since nearly all of their abilities are Charisma-based.
Charisma is going to be the best stat for an oracle anyway; what you've done is going to be a significant benefit to the saves of any Charisma-based character. That revelation doesn't change much, really, it just means they can dump Dex in addition to whatever other stats they were dumping. Great for the oracle, but across the board it's just a reflection of your change, and not that big a deal. Sorcerers and bards will get the same benefit if they find ways to maximize the utility of their primary stat.
I tie Charisma to hero points and luck rolls, that's how I make it useful. Even the universe doesn't like people with low Charisma scores.
Even the universe doesn't like people with low Charisma scores.
boy is that the truth...
I tie Charisma to hero points and luck rolls, that's how I make it useful.
I have thought of tying it to hero points too, but thought that it might empower Paladines, Sorcerers and the like too much. How have you tied it? How generous are you with Hero Points? I might do that too.
I have thought of tying it to hero points too, but thought that it might empower Paladines, Sorcerers and the like too much. How have you tied it? How generous are you with Hero Points? I might do that too.
I added Charisma to the list of prerequisites for the hero point-related feats and added a few more. There's also a feat or two that ties into the luck roll mechanics I use that also have Charisma prereqs.
(Luck rolls in my local group are rolls of 3d6 - ones are bad luck, sixes are good luck, and everything else is neutral and doesn't count at all. So you roll luck and can go from "three up", rolling three sixes, which would be extraordinarily good luck, to "three down", very bad luck. The basic luck feat allows you to add an extra die to all luck rolls and pick the three dice you like the best.)
I added Charisma to the list of prerequisites for the hero point-related feats and added a few more. There's also a feat or two that ties into the luck roll mechanics I use that also have Charisma prereqs.
Very interesting! I will do something like that too. Thank you.