RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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One of my players is playing a Varisian Gypsy and lives in a Vardo, also known as a Romani Wagon.
She wants to enchant her wagon and I am having some trouble with pricing of her requests. I want to make it affordable but not super cheap. Wouldn't an item like a wagon have a 30% price reduction because it wouldn't be used in combat, is very large, and isn't used very often?
Romani “Vardo” Wagons
Magical Enchantments
Bigger on the Inside
This enchantment creates within the inside of the wagon a large, portable extra-dimensional living space. There is 800 square feet of living space and it has a kitchen, a common living area, a small bath, and a bedroom. The space is not furnished with the exception of a fireplace, counter tops, and a wash basin in the kitchen.
Tough and Secure
The wagon is as hard to destroy as stone, and is as hard to set fire to as stone as well. It is also impervious to normal missiles, but not siege engine missiles. All entry points are alarmed as well, with the owner of the wagon deciding how they are alerted to imposters. The doors and windows can also locked with arcane lock at will. Additionally, the wagon parts never break down, the paint never fades, and the whole thing stays clean and free of scratches.
I actually based this off of the spell secure shelter, so I already have an idea of what this would cost.
Faster Movement
This enchantment allows the wagon to move at a faster speed and over rougher terrain. For the purposes of exploration and overland travel, the wagon’s speed is considered 40 feet in all terrains or 50 on established roads. The wagon is also more waterproof and stable when fording rivers and can be floated across calm, large bodies of water without danger. When fording rivers, the wagon can still be capsized by fast, rushing water if it is simply floated across the water, but it is stable and upright in all other conditions and is easily pulled across by two horses.
Self Driven
The wagon drives and pulls itself. Once per day on command, two large draft horses can be instantly summoned to pull the wagon. They appear already harnessed to the wagon and are ready to pull. They can be given a second command with a location and they will spend the next eight hours pulling the wagon towards that location along the shortest and safest path. They travel as fast as the wagon can be pulled, moving at its speed the entire time. If the owner wishes to drive, or have someone else drive, they can do that as well. Lastly, the wagon can be commanded to follow someone within sight, and it will do so for as long as the terrain allows and the target is within sight or for eight hours.
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Self Driven is roughly equivalent to summon mount as cast by an 8th level caster. For Faster Movement I'd look at long strider and endure elements.
Self Driven enhancement (1 x 8 x 1,800) =
14,400 gp. (Feel free to place whatever discount you please)
Faster Movement enhancement (1 x 10 x 2000) + (1 x 10 x 2000 x 1.5) = 50,000. Roughly.
I think caster level 10 is about right for something that'll be continuous.
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Saw the thread title and immediately recalled this item from last years RPG Superstar. It doesn't exactly meet all your specs, but it's close. Might be worth a look for inspiration.
Night Monarch Vardo
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Saw the thread title and immediately recalled this item from last years RPG Superstar. It doesn't exactly meet all your specs, but it's close. Might be worth a look for inspiration.
Night Monarch Vardo
That is a huge help. Thank you for pointing that out. I can't believe I forgot about that item.
I actually built something remarkably similar in Kingmaker as a crafting mage - a Huge Animated Object comes with 4 Construction Points. Spend 1 point for 'Stone' which ups the hardness and Natural AC, one or two points for faster movement, and one for the 'extra space' on the inside. Sub out the slam attack for something else if you want, or replace it with trample, it's pretty flexible at that point. Market price for that is 25k, with some adjustments depending on if you want to add/subtract features.
Keep in mind that when statted up, a huge construct is a pretty punchy beast for a character to have on their side. Unless you come up with some caveats to how it can/can't be piloted, the player will have a hefty new tool in their kit with some potentially unexpected ramifications. If it can self-pilot, then you now have a travel device that can move at a x4 run speed 24 hours a day if it sticks to the roads / open fields, just as one example. Also a pack beast that can haul a shade over 3000 pounds before leaving 'light load'.. and that's before people think to drop 'Ant Haul' on it, and the like.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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The animated object approach is worth looking into as well.
On the Night Monarch Vardo, using the magic item creation formulas things become insanely expensive. The item's price seems fair for what it does though. Maybe it could be a bit more expensive, but I think I am going to use this as a benchmark in terms of pricing.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I looked at the bag of holding and Genius Guide's "Krazy Kragnar's Used Chariots."
I decided that the Bigger on the Inside be the following:
Bigger on the Inside
Price: 15,000 gp
Weight: 600 lbs.
The outside is a vardo wagon ten feet across, twenty feet long and fifteen feet high. The internalspace has 2,500 square feet of living space, all in a 50' x 50' area. The internal temperature and air can be affected by external conditions as if it is a normal vardo, and thus needs to be heated in the winter and cooled in the summer. The ceiling of that area is 10 feet high. The front door is 3 1/2 feet x 6 feet and the roof hatch is 4' by 4'. Both can be opened from the outside. There are five small windows that can only be opened from the inside. These windows are considered magically treated but can still be broken. It can hold up to 3,000 lbs of internal cargo. Should it go over that amount the wagon becomes almost too heavy to pull, it is considered just over a heavy load and moves at a speed of 20 feet or half the pulling creatures speed, whatever is lower. If the internal weight reaches 5,000 lbs the wagon breaks, it is destroyed, and the contents are lost forever. Nondimensional spaces and items, like a bag of holding or the spell rope trick, cannot be accessed from within the wagon. Items can be stored on top of the wagon and do no count towards the internal weight limit, but they do add to the weight of the wagon.
The used chariots book had a wagon that was self driven and a chariot that not only ignored difficult terrain but could also fly. I plan on adapting those to suit my player's desires.
In total, the wagon she wants would cost about 20,000 gp.
Dot.
Something to consider for the self-driven enhancement, a continuous summon mount is only market 2,000/make 1,000. 4 & 2 if you have two horses.
The location aspect is interesting, and a bit tricky as it requires divination type effects. How do the mounts know which path is fastest and safest? It's like Find the Path, but better as it chooses a safe route, which FtP does not. A constant FtP spell would be about 198,000gp.
For tough and secure, I would say it could only be used when the wagon is not in motion. Perhaps some sort of breaking down/making camp ritual?
Faster movement, consider that you are more than tripling its overland speed. Wagons usually travel 16 miles per day, on roads. So, giving it a base speed of 50 is pretty incredible. On the other hand, if it is being pulled by magical/witchy horses, it would fit, and scare the daylights out of the peasants.
Overall, I'd say bump the enchancements down a bit, but have them be fairly inexpensive. A wagon pulled by magical horses that follow whatever path they are on at a speed of 30ft perhaps?
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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The location aspect is interesting, and a bit tricky as it requires divination type effects. How do the mounts know which path is fastest and safest?
I would say the summoned mounts make the decision based on their own perception. I think rewording and toning down the self driven would be a good idea.
Maybe say they follow the safest and quickest path that they are able perceive directly. Also remove the ability to give a direct location and replace it with at most simple instructions. Something like, "Follow this road for five miles," or "Travel north for two miles."
Super Genius's book "Used Chariots" has a self driven enhancement that is roughly 2,500 gp.
As for changing the speed, I don't think it is that big of a deal. At one point in an adventurer's career they carry thousands of pounds of gear, coin, and valuables while flying or teleporting. A faster wagon isn't as big of deal in comparison.
Fair enough.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I did some research and sent some emails out to learn more about these gypsy wagons.
They ranged in weight from 1 to 3 tons. Only the largest would be pulled by more than one horse. The smaller only needed two horses when going up hills. They typically only carried about 300 to 500 lbs of cargo and passengers. If people could walk, they would walk alongside the wagons instead of ride inside of them.
I did even more research. It turns out that the heavy wagons used by American pioneers to spread across the country could handle up to 12 tons. Granted, there were teams of animals on those wagons. It is those wagons that would travel about 15 miles a day.
Now, I don't think the rules for wagons needs to be redone because of this revelation. I do think they might need to be clarified a bit if you use wagons and carts a great deal.
A heavy horse has a maximum load of 1,200 lbs. They can drag up to 6,000 lbs. While normally their speed would be reduced to 5 ft. for dragging, the wagon has wheels and would be easier to pull. Because it says wagons can go 16 miles in a day's travel, we can do some math and find that the speed is about 17.5 ft. We could round that up 20 easily.
So while not an official rule, animals pulling a wagon heavier than their Heavy Load move at a speed of 20.
*EDIT*
Imagine putting muleback cords on a heavy horse. With a Str score of 28, their Heavy Load is 3,600 pounds and the max they could drag is 18,000 pounds! So, just with that alone their speed with a light vargo should move from 20 to 50.
Okay, that makes sense. Thanks for posting the information. It will prove useful for my Jade Regent and Kingmaker campaigns.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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Just wanted to jump back in here to give some notes from my game and further research.
Stagecoaches were known to travel as much as 100 miles in a day with properly planned and practiced stops to change horses every so often.
If you allow flying vehicles in your game be sure to take that into account when you are planning time sensitive challenges that also involve both distances and moving large amounts of people or resources. I had one case where I told them they had day to reach a town in trouble. They had little problem reaching it in time with more than enough resources and muscle to handle what I was hoping would be a challenge.
Be sure to deal damage to wagons caught in area of effect spells like fireball, especially if they are being used by PCs as cover. In fact, don't forget that the wagons and animals pulling them are just as viable as targets as the PCs are.
Some folks and I talked a while back for making a useful vardo. (I didn't plan to make it bigger on the inside though, just have a functional vardo we could bring with us without always having to pop back into town for new horses.)
DMs whose PCs are planning to travel via wagon should take a look at the vehicle rules. Overrunning and ramming people with vehicles is incredibly deadly, but the "sudden stop" rules are... well, if it was that way in real life a 5 mph bump in a parking lot would lead to mutilations and missing limbs. (My DM has "solved" this by refusing to make any decisions, which is somewhat disappointing, but at least it's important for people to know what to expect.)