I know that there have been numerous threads and posts related to this subject (especially with the hobbit in theaters), but my friends and I want to play a hobbit-ish style adventure and we dont know were to start. Any Suggestions? (Also we dont want it to be exactly like the book, no fourteen adventurers or any wizards!!!)
How about adventures? that thread only helps with making characters.
Adventures are simple. It will mostly be exploration with a few Orc fights (NOTE: Middle Earth Goblins are a Sub-Culture of Orc Just as the Uruk are).
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If you're not wedded to Pathfinder, take a look at The One Ring. I haven't played it but it seems to capture the feel of Middle-Earth.
I strongly recommend it. It's a totally different animal, but it doesn't need the finessing and kludging to get it to feel Tolkien-esque.
It breathes the atmosphere (and the magic) of M-e much better than MERP or LotR RPG.Note: I wrote for MERP.
*meh* I liked MERP.
Still, having monsters that don't just avoid sunlight, they are actually hurt by it (and could even turn to stone) seems like a fun spin. I'd make such creatures variants of the core ones (some sort of darkness-touched template, perhaps).
Hobs would make good Urak-Hai
One of the key facets of Tolkien's works is an interaction with nature, traveling through the world. I'd make sure to emphasize exploration and trekking through the wilds, dealing with the elements and natural hazards of moving through mountainous terrain, and make ABSOLUTELY certain to get descriptive about that stuff, the sound of the wind, quality of the light, feel of the air under the trees, etc...
This thread offers some pretty good rules and suggestions for this sort of gameplay with refined overland rules. http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2jszy?Houserule-the-Overland-Round
I would say More of a Homebrew High-Orc would be better...
Say +2 STR, +2 WIS, -2 CHA. everything else is that of an Orc.
An orc with the fluff of the hobgoblin would make a good uruk.
An orc with the fluff of the hobgoblin would make a good uruk.
Meh that could work as well.
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I have never seen The One Ring. I did read through the LOTR RPG fast play adventure and it was pretty cool. I have a friend who really recommends The One Ring.
I know for our 3.e excursion into ME I used a mix of homebrew and Merp adventures and that worked fine. I would just use analogous stat blocks and reroll NPCs.
The biggest thing I can suggest if you want the feel of ME. Put everthing in context. There are no such things as +1 swords. There are hardend blued steel dwarf broadswords. Purge as much metagame language as you can. Yes it functions as a +1 longsword but do your best to keep things part of the culture, or rare and special. Nothing is without a place or story.
I think the d20 Source for Middle Earth (technically a wiki setup by a group from the Tolkien Estate) had a very Slow XP Progression, as in almost double (1.8x) Pathfinders Slow XP progression, had little to no magic (Level 6 and had some spells entirely), and all of the Magic Items were along the lines of Minor Artifacts.
I mean a +1 Longsword is a treasure that a 12th level character would kill to have.
Basically the used a WBL rating similar to Pathfinder with everyone getting Less than a Basic NPC for Wealth.
Not sure why the Tolkien Estate would license several RPGs and set up a wiki. Either way while I agree that there is no where near the level magic in ME as in most modern game worlds but there is more than people remember.
In Bree when Frodo puts on the ring in the books they are not shocked or puzzled the believe him to be a rude enchanter. The thing about this is while unsual it does not seem beyond understanding.
When the dwarves find the troll horde they bury all the gold and other items. It says they cast spells over the stash. They also found two famous elf blades one that belonged to former king of Gondolyn (I would say that Glamdring was way above +1). Here they also found Sting.
When they face the Barrow Whights, one of the swords they find is an blade made in Arnor and Merry uses it. Its forging in Arnor allow it break a number of the enchantments of the Witchking allowing Eowyn to strike him down.
When they get to Lothlorien they get all sorts of gear. Magic potting soil, a Malorn seed, a magic light jewel, Lego gets a magic bow. They all get cloaks of elven kind. Magic rope, magic food, you get the idea.
Part of the subtely is that it both dwarves and elves have "secrets" of crafting and "great skill." Well technology appears as magic to the those who do not understand it. Though the mythology presents it mysteriously.
The Tolkien Estate still is divided. I think it was 7 different people have rights to allow multiple versions to exist.
The items you are stating are atypical in Middle Earth.
Yes powerful Items exist but Glamdring and Sting would be (and were IIRC) +2 & +1 Goblin Bane Weapons.
Most weapons in the books fall into Minor Artifact or Specific Weapon Categories.
Minor Magic Items would be available. Magic of low levels is available. Invisibility is a 2nd Level Spell and not to hard to access.
In fact my settings I used a variant of their Mana Charge rule in my setting.
Yeah, if you subscribe to the low power level theory most seem to tout in regard to Third Age Middle Earth, don't bother with more than say a 10 point buy, use slow advancement and cap at 10th level, as Sauron is probably not more than CR14. For the many who may not recognize sarcasm in written form, the above is my submission.
--Shine Bright Like a Diamond--
I am not sure how you could from the text or the film parse the difference between a +1 or a +5.
Honestly I would assume that the skill of elves and dwarves would even if it is not "enchanted" in the Pathfinder sense would equate to +1 or more and something like Orcrist or Glamdring have a +4 or +5.
The way it is set up is to focus less on slay dragons or demons every week and more exploration with group battles.
Also less Magic Items more Innate Abilities.
I haven't posted the levels to d20 Middle Earth in the Azog thread because I know Pendagast would get upset.
When the fellowship forms most of them are Level 2. Gandalf was Level 5. Aragorn was a Level 4 Warden(d20ME class). Legolas was a Level 3 Fighter built as an Archer. Gimli was a Fighter built as a TWF. The Hobbits were lower levels as Frodo was a Rogue 2 and the other three would be Expert 2.
Heck, The Hobbit group though Pendagast is dead on with.
Yes it would use the Slow Progression. Though Sauron was CR 15 I believe... But he wasn't the most powerful of the Evil in the Setting.
But like Golarion it is assumed level 11+ is rare. We are talking King of Kings. William Wallace Giant amongst normal men kinda thing.
Aragorn ends being a Warden 10. and is 3 levels above the rest of the Fellowship.
Ironically, d20ME was criticized because of the fact that it had almost no dead levels like normal 3.5. The criticism got so bad it killed the setting. I think the wiki is still around somewhere.
I am working on making the Warden an Archetype of the Ranger.
Doesn't UC have a Nature Warden archetype?Might that suffice?
Actually, d20ME's Wardens fit more with the Tactician or Holy Tactacian Archetypes.
Though Holy Tactician would need to lose some abilities to fit perfectly...
Maybe Use the Holy Tactician as the basis for the Ranger Archetype...
Not sure why the Tolkien Estate would license several RPGs and set up a wiki. Either way while I agree that there is no where near the level magic in ME as in most modern game worlds but there is more than people remember.
In Bree when Frodo puts on the ring in the books they are not shocked or puzzled the believe him to be a rude enchanter. The thing about this is while unsual it does not seem beyond understanding.
When the dwarves find the troll horde they bury all the gold and other items. It says they cast spells over the stash. They also found two famous elf blades one that belonged to former king of Gondolyn (I would say that Glamdring was way above +1). Here they also found Sting.
When they face the Barrow Wights, one of the swords they find is an blade made in Arnor and Merry uses it. Its forging in Arnor allow it break a number of the enchantments of the Witchking allowing Eowyn to strike him down.
When they get to Lothlorien they get all sorts of gear. Magic potting soil, a Malorn seed, a magic light jewel, Lego gets a magic bow. They all get cloaks of elven kind. Magic rope, magic food, you get the idea.
Part of the subtely is that it both dwarves and elves have "secrets" of crafting and "great skill." Well technology appears as magic to the those who do not understand it. Though the mythology presents it mysteriously.
Eowyn defeats the witch king because she is not a man. The same reason merry is able to strike him, although both their blades do disintegrate, despite merry's being a barrow blade.
I'm not so sure how powerful glamdring is, it could simply be a +1 Bane longsword. Just because it was owned by an Elf king doesn't make it ultra powerful, In fact it is ultra powerful if everyone else is carrying a normal sword.
Glamdring and Orcrist theoretically have the same powers, as both were made for slaying orcs and goblins, purpose made for the goblin wars. However, elrond says orcrist is a famous blade, and glamdring the kings blade,possible then glamdring is mo powerful. maybe +2 or +3 with the same bane quality?
I never really got the sense the elf food was magic food?
I know that there have been numerous threads and posts related to this subject (especially with the hobbit in theaters), but my friends and I want to play a hobbit-ish style adventure and we dont know were to start. Any Suggestions? (Also we dont want it to be exactly like the book, no fourteen adventurers or any wizards!!!)
E6 rules set, slow progression 10 or 15 PB, no magic stores. Limit/control what they find, anything magic they do find can't simply be a +1 sword. It has to be "the word of findel the elf, of the first age, passed down to him from his grand sire and used to behead dorf the orc lord during the battle of dim wit villa"
The over explanation of magic items, greatly helps with keeping a down low on the goodies. Because the more tired you are of comming up with what item it is and explaining it, the less of them there are!
E6 or even going to E10 would work but isn't necessary.
Nice... To bad I am poor...
Hmm... I am guessing it isn't openly available is it...
Bullocks...
I am wondering if it would be better to get the Kobold Quarterly it supposedly comes in...
Drat.
On-Topic: Simply making the campaign an open sandbox with the PCs being dogged day and night would be perfect.
Well I dunno about dogged day and night.
Gosh I would LOVE to run this, this my style of play, love this stuff, too bad you all don't live near me I could run it for you:
If you want I could write up some bullets of the campaign I used to introduce my wife to the game 6 years ago (close to seven now)
Basically, since she had never played before, only read some fantasy novels. It was easy to start out with a character who knew nothing. Evil was something of the past, her great great grand father was a major hero (paladin) in a by gone age and actually destroyed all evil that had existed, or so he thought....
Her character started out a paladin, although she didn't know it. She was a stable girl, took care of horses, she discovered her class abilities as she was reacting to things. I described goblins and strange small men that just didnt seem right (they were wearing robes and hoods).
She met a big bad, who rode around on a dark horse and gave orders that sounded scary and intimidating, In a language she had never heard before (goblin) in fact, she had never heard another language besides common.... no one she knew had.
It was mystery, it was intrigue, it was slow in developing it was AWESOME.
anyway that's just a taste. or an idea how to start off, but running into the wild to do things like adventure should, at least to the characters, seem alien and unheard of except stories and fairy tales.
I was fortunate enough to have a player who was naive, with experienced players you will need their help maintaining the fourth wall.... but is should be good RP.
@Pendagast: I love that...
That does sound good Pend. I played in a campaign like that. I played a halfling who loved to cook. He was a rogue that specialized in skiprocks. His best friend was a Paladin. We handled the growing into our abilities much the same way. Our village was raided and we were asked to take an acient book basically to the forces of good. We described the orcs and goblins that harried us and had raided our village as green skinned demons until around 5th level.
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It was kinda cool, I had a dwarf show up (like yoda) who was russling around in her pantry.
She was out late one night, and noticed a goblin (a strange short man) poisoning the town well (although she didn't know it was poison at the time) <why am i always attacking peoples water supply?>
So she decides to go get her bow (she used it for hunting) and chase the creep off. She gets into her house to get her bow and finds this dwarf crawling through her window.
She hides around the corner (she's never seen a dwarf before) to see what it's up to, and it starts eating her food. I kinda played him like yoda at first...
Long term story, the dwarf was a former cohort of her great grand sire, and knew him, but obviously, because he was a dwarf, out lived him easily.
So I had this old dwarf (who I statted out as a fighter/rogue) basically be a historian, trainer, and explainer of all things that did not make sense.
He also had his old master sword, a holy sword, that could only be used by a paladin.
The dwarf used the weapon to make sure he had found the right descendant.
My wife ends up using the weapon a little later when the big bad came to town with some skeletons and goblins to "shake up to citizens" the wife wasn't having it. she went out to confront him (It was really just intended to be a look out the window and see bad stuff happen)
So the dwarf shouts ermm, you better take this.
So she goes out there, and ends up maneuvering around the phalanx of skeletons (because of how she was placed she was able to walk around four of them and walk right up to the dude on the horse (I was like oops) so the 1st level paladin rolls a crit and confirms with her holy sword, I told her that she could give this swing her "All" before she rolled or hold back in case she needed her 'spiritual reserves' and she replies to me "to the moon alice"
So I let her smite, 1st level paladin took down my half orc dark cleric (who I think was 5th level) with one shot. This was her first combat in 3.5, ever. Or any RPG for that matter.
I was like ummmm (that was suppose to be the big bad for this chapter of the campaign)
The skeletons were then uncontrolled and ambling about, and she was oddly able to put the skeletons between her and the goblins, who were terrorizing citizens before she slew their master. So when the goblins came to chase her down, the skeletons attacked some of the goblins too.
Ended up, 1 1st level paladin, having never played the game before defeated a 5th level cleric, 3 goblins and 4 skeletons, by her self. it was REALLY awesome, and I was assuming her character was going to die!
I later had the Dwarf teach her about things like healing potions (when they found them) and such. Which was really funny because she spent most of her RP time trying to get RID of the dwarf.
She travels to the nearby castle to complain to the local lord about what is happening in the village, on the way there is intercepted by a band of brigands demanding a toll. The brigands were a bard, a barbarian and a bunch of NPC classed guys.
When she and the dwarf dont comply, the barbarian orders the flunkies to "take the toll" and the bard cheers them on, The dwarf occupies the experts while she ran around them to chop the chello out of the bards hands, the barbarian intervenes, and she brings him low. The bard decides I've had enough, no more for me thanks. She decides to allow the bard to travel with them, rather than killing him.
the three of them travel off to the castle.
They find the castle, and it's inhabitants are actually the source of the evil things that are happening as of late and the adventure continued... it was fun.
My first Pathfinder game was as a Ranger built to be a Bastard Sword wielding Switch Hitter...
One of the experienced players hated me for being the Party Leader and "stealing" that job from his character.
In his background he was like Katniss. A "Peaceful Summer" child but trained for Hunting and such by his father.
Favoured Enemy: Animals. It upset the Aforementioned Experienced Player Horribly.
Gotta love Springfield. Missouri and its variety of people...
Hmm, Maybe we should start a "What was your first Character/Adventure Thread" in the General Discussion section...
Is there already one? I have a feeling it would end up getting moved to Advice though...
On-Topic: by Dogged I was referring to just being on guard for attacks.
what did he think his character was "party leader" bound, what was his build?
He was a Paladin. His build is perfect for his intelligence..
High Strength, Moderate Constitution, Moderate Charisma, Low Dexterity, Low Wisdom, Abysmal Intelligence.
Literally:
STR, DEX, CON, INT, WIS, CHA
20, 12, 15, 5, 9, 14
LOL!!!
GOD SAY SMASH!!!!
He went for a 2H Brutality Build and messed it up to where he literally was doing less with Power Attack & Smite together than I was when I wasn't using Power Attack, Deadly Aim, or Favoured Enemy.
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Try to get hold of the old MERP adventures...
Roughest conversion would be to divide equipment properties by 5 (MERP is a d100 system).
But the treasure lies in the atmosphere the adventures help create, to get the crunch right requires a lot of work from the GM.
For a free glimpse, you could try The Guild Companion. They published some 10 years back a free mini campaign:
Ruyan.
I had a really cool Idea last night for this, but it would be pretty lengthy, let me know if you want me to post it before i spend along time typing.
I had a really cool Idea last night for this, but it would be pretty lengthy, let me know if you want me to post it before i spend along time typing.
*Raises Hand*
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Two diverging ideas one simple, one more complex:
Simple:
The characters all live on "both" ie a frozen planet/world/area. No one knows of anywhere any different, think narnia before spring but colder.
Going out, adventuring, doing stuff beyond bare existence, has been, as far as anyone can remember, very risky business just going out the door. Elves (for the start) should be a restricted race as they are really long lived and might know meta plot.
The cool thing is characters would be set up for cold weather adventuring, but, find themselves falling thorough an area in the Ice into a land of the lost, were everything is hot super tropical and dinos are the norm (no horses, pigs ponies whatever)
The PCs realize this is "the real world" and the one they come from above is an ice shelf, caused by a great wyrm white dragon.
The under worlds sun is a magical artifact (basically a nuclear sun) whose fabrication destroyed it's creator.
So enter lot's of turok the dinosaur hunter type adventuring.
for a very large part of the campaign, 3-10 perhaps, the characters couldn't get back to their cold world, or do anything about their knowledge of who what why.
The PCs are likely to be set up as arctic druids or cold weather rangers etc. So they play a fish out of water campaign for quite a while until perhaps they confront and defeat the great wyrm, uniting the two worlds.
It's too hot to wear heavy metal armor and such and unless they spend a lot of feats to get away with it, they would take lots of fatigue and other issues with it, including damage.
The super sun causes an incredible greenhouse affect because of the uber ice above, it's constantly hot sweaty rainy and never night.
That's the simply one:
The PCs are likely to be set up as arctic druids or cold weather rangers etc. So they play a fish out of water campaign for quite a while until perhaps they confront and defeat the great wyrm, uniting the two worlds.
While a neat idea, I think this would end up causing a lot of frustration amongst the players. Someone overspecialized for arctic adventuring will be lag behind power-wise while a generic fighter will excel. What makes this even more bitter for the players is it is likely that those who did specialize for winter environments are probably the more engaged players.
the difficult or more complex one is City world (yes and urban campaign of sorts)
The world has been conquered the dark reaches explored, tamed, civilized. Think of living on coruscant in star wars.
Think it like shadow run without guns.
It's a world where balance and neutrality rule. the only way to end the wars was to compromise, and so the champions of Balance won.
The most common alignment is Neutral and it's offshoots. It has been like this for some time, but of course the legends and myths of times long gone exist.
Elves are the purveyors of what has become "civilization" elf communities are "tree houses" in Garden areas of built up cities Huge city buildings of nothing but living growing vine like trees.
While magic is 'common' in this way, spells like 'magic missle' are considered "treasure".
No one has needed hostile magic in so long.
Armor and weapons are in museums , of course knives, daggers, staves and such even a clubs would be common enough at start.
Characters could have things but they would cost much much more than book.
so magic is common enough in that spells are like coffee makers, but combat spells have been forgotten. (or so some would think)
the beginning plot is sort of based on Sherlock Holmes.
Secret underground cult worshipping evil god. body snatching and all that goodness (or evilness?)
The players, obviously are some curious lot, or they wouldn't care about the subtle clues.
PCs might start out as people that know each other and hang out at a pub or some other local often enough to know eachother.
They could be of any class that makes sense in an urban society, evil, thievery, fights and brawls exist, just in a world of balance, no extremes or large amounts are there.
All the unexplored places were long explored.... however, many places have been forgotten.
Yep, pretty much a sewers campaign, an entire adventure of underground city adventure maybe with the occasional abandoned skyscraper/castle type building, something that spirals on and on forever.
It should be noted that "crafting" weapons and such would be outlawed.
So players wouldnt normally start out with axes and swords, but should be able to loot them soon enough.
the plot moves on as the PC's investigate the disappearances and shady characters (stuff that goes unnoticed in a balanced society since it isnt an extreme)
This is basically Cthulu based. Squiddy headed outer world god, coming to/returning to power, the disapearances are NOT sacrifices, but transformations. They are being transformed into.... Illthids!!
Well not the mad powerful mind blasting ones (at least not yet) use the URG and make a new specific race using the race builder. A tentacular faced race of altered humanoids (even dwarf and halfling ones! hah!)
Eventually as the PCs get up in level, they do find actual mind flayers in the ranks of squid-lord the mighty.
Use 3.5 monster manual for reference.
The clergy of the cult should be oracles and witches.
Replace the requirement for a coven needing a Hag with the requirement needing at least one full blooded Illithid.
the double plot comes when the PCs realize the elves have know about this all along, but since they A) are too proud to realize their "balance" no longer exists, and the scales of overloadingly tipped toward evil and B) are too comfortable in their seats of power and control, that truthfully only power and their false security they have provided are what's important.
Use the winter council as a guide for this type of elven artisocracy and hell knights as a law enforcement arm for them.
Several of the Elf higher ups (ones with LOTS of years on them) should actually BE Lawful Evil, with ties to Arch Devils etc.
so when the PCs level up, they come to the realization they actually have TWO core organizations that are a problem/need to be overthrown. One above and one below.
Or course you can have all sorts of standard monsters as well , such as a skyscraper that has been abandoned and is now the exclusive lair of a blackdragon that was abandoned in the sewer by it's owner as a wyrmling when it grew to large to live in it's cage and became too expensive to feed....
Etc etc.