Goblin Squad Member
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So after watching the newest video on the blog in which harvesting is discussed... first off I was happy to see that there will be some traditional harvesting. I think a lot of people would really miss that feature if it weren't included.
Second off it raised a huge question for me. How long will our camps last? Are we talking build a camp and harvest for an hour to deplete the resource or camps that last forever?
Personally I hope it depends a lot on the node type. Farms should last forever. Lumber camps should last until the trees are gone. This is assuming your camp runs unhindered by violence. Obviously destruction is a whole different matter.
Anyway... discuss!
(Can someone link the video, having a hard time finding a link from my iPhone.)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I can see both ways, the fact that realistically resources are finite, and therefore camps should also have a finite time. One the other side of things, if we were to stick to realism too strictly we would have only a certain amount of resources ever, and face deforestation, strip mining, etc. Being that the game, while large for an MMO, will still be quite small for what harvesters will be doing, this does not seem fun, nor do i wish to play a captain planet MMO. I think that more of a middle ground approach would take place, more than an hour, perhaps a few days for forests, a few weeks for mines, with the total resources available to be removed being a hidden stat.
Possibly some skills that allow for quicker and/or more efficient gathering. This I would think would allow for the guild and city pvp portion of the game to have some more substantial reasons for combat, and strife. Also the fact that there would be more organization needed to make long term use of these large scale nodes. While a party may be able to come in, plop a harvester down for a few hours, pick up and go, if someone wants the best results of the find they would need others to take turns in the guarding and moving of all the collected resources.
Again creating opportunities for inter-guild and -settlement strife, bandits, the need for wagons, guards, etc. Honestly either way I would enjoy, the idea that harvesting as a group effort that will require more than watching a tool move for a few seconds makes a warm happy place in my heart.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I don't think that the camps will finish harvesting very quickly. If you'll recall, both the blog discussing the camps and the video indicated that we would need to arrange for logistical support. Granted, they may just mean that you'll need wagons or something to carry all the resources back to a settlement once the resource is depleted. They also indicated in the video that you would need to have logistical support as your camp could fill up it's storage facilities. This implies to me that the resource will be quite large.
This will also allow plenty of opportunities for rogue elements to harrass and attack your camp/logistical chain.
Also, remember that while we will be able to harvest traditionally, picking stuff up off the ground, the camp sites will be built into the game as I believe the video indicated that we would have to search for one of these locations, "a cool mine, a stand of trees ..." which implies to me that this would be a long-lasting location.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think that they should stay for a while. maybe 72 hours at least up to a week. This provides guilds incentives to invest in a harvesting operation. The operation should also cost resources to set up so that the organization is invested in the operation.
Forcing the spot to be around for a long period of time forces the company to protect it from mobs and also PC bandits. This is a great dynamic. the reward is you have a continuous mine for a long period of time giving you resources, the downside is you might lose it, with or without making back your money.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm guessing right-click vimeo vid for the actual url (for some reason clicking "vimeo" does not take you to vimeo (I find vimeo a real pain tbh)? Did a quick search on vimeo for the pvp vid and did not come up with it though, anyone else got it? :(
On topic: Yes, I really enjoyed hearing about this. I don't mind if the art assets are not in place as long as the activity makes logical sense (ie NPC's milling around busily working etc). Maybe farms are more permanent, though I wonder if leaving fields fallow allows them to be productive/fertilizer and all that stuff to increase productivity/yields etc? Also selective areas too: Don't know how complex that could get: What sort of soil clay or chalk etc. :)
Mark Kalmes mentioned in the podcast local economy and hopefully we'll also get teamsters to actually transport goods. There was contemplation on whether or not it would be "ie by post" or by actual transport due to various factors. Again in my eyes I don't mind if it's logically the same so long as perhaps bandits can waylay these if not guarded or at least take a cut.
In terms of "how long camps should last", perhaps mostly proportional to the value and size of the operation required to harvest/extract resources or the player choice how much how quickly they are wishing to exploit this find? Along those lines. Certain variability in these things will add good decisions. Though I wonder if the economic cost will tend towards extracting X% is most practical and leaving any remainder to despawn? I suppose different activities require different cost of resources to transport and set up and numbers of people involved will influence this from a minor activity to a full-blown mining operation?
/rambling thoughts after the last few days..
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tasarak, I meant how did he find the link. I know how to create links :)
@AvenaOats, thanks for making me take a second look at that. I right-clicked it last night, but didn't immediately see what I was looking for. I took a closer look today and it's inside the "Copy embed code".
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/56173981" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>
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Goblin Squad Member
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I think the time a gathering operation stays up and running, barring any destruction from PC or NPC, should depend soley on two factors: Quality of resource being harvested, and the ammount of the resource to be harvested.
For example: If I stuble on to a silver mine, it wouldn't be around as long as if I had stumbled onto a gold or platium mine. However, if the silver mine is big enough (Lets just throw numbers and say it holds 5000 units of silver to be harvested) it might last as long as a mine holding 3000 units of gold or 1000 units of platium. Again, just throwing numbers out there but it is an idea.
One idea from this could be to assume all of the same "Type" are equal in terms of extraction, in which case the quanity will be universal as far as time is considered. Meaning 1000 units of silver takes as long to harvest as 1000 units of platium. Obviously the platium would be more valuable then the silver so that would be more expensive or take longer to setup or some other balancing reason. Semi using the idea from Eve where ICE required special mining lasers while each type of ore had a different weight so you could only hold a certain amount of each in the same hold.
Either way, I really like what I have heard and read about this in the blogs. The game as a whole is coming along very well and the ideas are wonderful. Keep it up Goblinworks. I was very dissappointed in D&DO and this has much more potential.
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Goblin Squad Member
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damn it, side was down again.
as i tried to post before:
concerning farms:
if i remember correctly GW has plans to implemend seasons. That would open the possibility to have permanent farms, bur requiring different crops in different seasons, and maybe no harvest in winter?
for mines, how about this:
after you depleted your vein of ore, you get to choose, either pack up the camp and leave, or DIG DEEPER, that way building up a chance to find another one, but, at the same time, increasing the chance to find something to didn`t want to, like a dungeon?
On a side note, i`d like to see some cattle raids in the game
;) not that i would do such a thing
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Tasarak, I meant how did he find the link. I know how to create links :)
@AvenaOats, thanks for making me take a second look at that. I right-clicked it last night, but didn't immediately see what I was looking for. I took a closer look today and it's inside the "Copy embed code".
<iframe src="http://player.vimeo.com/video/56173981" width="400" height="300" frameborder="0" webkitAllowFullScreen mozallowfullscreen allowFullScreen></iframe>
Just got home. See, I assumed you knew it was on the Kickstarter Home page. =)
This is right up my alley! :) am wanting to form a gathering, crafting guild that also offers logistic/transport services with vehicles, guards, the whole works. So I love the idea that harvestable resources of differing sizes will be in game.
I too think farms should be different then ore, timber btw.
Any word on if we can replant things like trees? Just curious. Archage is going to allow you to plant crops, trees etc. if it could be added that would rock. If not oh well.
Really love what I'm hearing so far though.
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Goblin Squad Member
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... am wanting to form a gathering, crafting guild...
I'll be glad to add your guild to the Guild Recruitment & Helpful Links list as soon as you announce it... but you already knew that, didn't you? *winks*
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Goblin Squad Member
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Valandur,
That's part of the reason I got involved in PFO too. Then I saw unit-scale combat between PCs and I squee'd very loudly, so now I want both. If you're not dead set on forming your own guild, The Keepers of The Circle has got a lot of love for gathering and crafting - they're the backbone of our organization, the reason we're maintaining a military arm. I know you'd also be welcome with The Empyrean Order - they're growing a kingdom to protect and excel - and The Seventh Veil has got a place for crafters and other adventurers - they're both very strong options with wonderful communities, and I encourage you to check out all three - again, if you're not dead set on creating your own guild. =] Otherwise, we'd be glad to work with you and your guild, as our interests seem very much in alignment. I don't speak for TEO or Seventh Veil, of course.
I don't think replanting trees has been addressed directly, but that's a feature I would like to see - particularly with the 4:1 game time: real time speed. My understanding, sans replanting, is that to keep logging we'll have to move further and further into the wilderness. That mirrors earlier human development a bit, but I see no reason we couldn't replant trees, except maybe for mechanics.
Dictated by Hroderich Gottfrei, Warden of Gold and Steel, to Keeper Gromovoii Malchikh, Keeper of Crystal.
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Goblin Squad Member
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| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
...Lumber camps should last until the trees are gone. ...
Lumber camps in 'good' hexes should never be exhausted but their yield should be moderated by good husbandry for the forest. Proper forestry is selective about which trees will be cut and when, and down wood is removed. The forest is actually more healthy due to the forester's restraint and resource management.
Lumber camps is chaotic evil hexes should probably yield much more product but for a very brief time as the area is denuded, until the forest gradually respawns and regrows much later.
Mines should not respawn resource nodes unless they dig deeper and farther. When the mine plays out it should be abandoned, eventually to become a lair (I hope) or caves in.
Valandur,
That's part of the reason I got involved in PFO too. Then I saw unit-scale combat between PCs and I squee'd very loudly, so now I want both. If you're not dead set on forming your own guild, The Keepers of The Circle has got a lot of love for gathering and crafting - they're the backbone of our organization, the reason we're maintaining a military arm. I know you'd also be welcome with The Empyrean Order - they're growing a kingdom to protect and excel - and The Seventh Veil has got a place for crafters and other adventurers - they're both very strong options with wonderful communities, and I encourage you to check out all three - again, if you're not dead set on creating your own guild. =] Otherwise, we'd be glad to work with you and your guild, as our interests seem very much in alignment. I don't speak for TEO or Seventh Veil, of course.
I don't think replanting trees has been addressed directly, but that's a feature I would like to see - particularly with the 4:1 game time: real time speed. My understanding, sans replanting, is that to keep logging we'll have to move further and further into the wilderness. That mirrors earlier human development a bit, but I see no reason we couldn't replant trees, except maybe for mechanics.
Dictated by Hroderich Gottfrei, Warden of Gold and Steel, to Keeper Gromovoii Malchikh, Keeper of Crystal.
Sent you a PM :)
...Lumber camps should last until the trees are gone. ...Lumber camps in 'good' hexes should never be exhausted but their yield should be moderated by good husbandry for the forest. Proper forestry is selective about which trees will be cut and when, and down wood is removed. The forest is actually more healthy due to the forester's restraint and resource management.
Lumber camps is chaotic evil hexes should probably yield much more product but for a very brief time as the area is denuded, until the forest gradually respawns and regrows much later.
Mines should not respawn resource nodes unless they dig deeper and farther. When the mine plays out it should be abandoned, eventually to become a lair (I hope) or caves in.
I was thinking this, but didn't know if it was something that's been considered by the Devs or not at this point .
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Nihimon
EVERY TIME. How are you so fast?
I'm a programmer :)
Reasons why people who work with computers seem to have a lot of spare time