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It seems like to me that rain of blows for the dervish dancer was an add on to battle dance, not its own dance.
thus i would be able to use inspire courage and rain of blows, is this wrong or right?
Or is it its own dance and i cant combine them?
Rain of Blows doesn't appear to be a Bardic Performance even though it replaces suggestion. I believe you can combine it with Inspire.
They are battle dances, so you can't combine them. But you still have the normal song version of inspire courage, so you can get the shadow bard or the likes to have two going at once.
What is the shadow bard? Archetype?
So saying that without shadow bard i couldnt sing inspire courage and dance rain of blows
Shadowbard
School illusion (shadow) [shadow]; Level bard 5
You conjure up a quasi-real phantom singer that is visible as a shifting, shadowy duplicate of yourself. The singer follows you automatically, moving as you move even if you teleport. The singer cannot be damaged, but can be dispelled. When a shadowbard comes into being, it immediately begins a bardic performance of your choice—it has access to all of the bardic performances that you do. It continues that bardic performance until you direct it as a move action to switch to a different performance. Rounds spent by a shadowbard creating a bardic performance do not decrease the number of rounds you can use your own bardic performance, nor can a shadowbard’s bardic performance be used to trigger spells that require you to begin or cease a bardic performance.
Virtuoso performance also works as a lv4 bard spell, or perhaps Exquisite Accompaniment could work too
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There's also the Virtuoso Performance spell.
Some of these dances are free action to start by the way, so if you're 13th+ level you can initiate them, do your round, end them, and start a new performance as a swift action at the end of your round... (typically Inspire Courage, for the "others" :) )
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Reading it, the dances that the Dervish Dancer are:
-Inspire Courage
-Inspire Greatness
-Inspire Heroics
-Rain of Blows
-Razor's Kiss
-Leaf on the Wind
All of these are separate dances that can not be used at the same time for stacking bonuses, otherwise that may be a little too badwrongfun depending on the build. (I'm looking at you Inspire Courage + Razor's Kiss + Butterfly's Sting.)
Now..... If one had lingering performance and did Inspire Courage before hand.....
Oh gosh, time to look up Shadowbard......
Starting up a battle dance would end the lingering performance effect.
"If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease."
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There's also Lingering Performance and Harmonic Spell, to complicate things... (Lingering Performance stops when you initiate a new performance i.e. you can't overlap 2 performances with this feat; Harmonic Spell allows you to switch to another performance as a swift action i.e. which becomes moot at 13th level)
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Starting up a battle dance would end the lingering performance effect.
"If you begin a new bardic performance during this time, the effects of the previous performance immediately cease."
Well poopy. That Shadowbard though, would help things out quite a bit. Still, if one doesn't dance, they can still use the effects of lingering performance for everyone else, which isn't really a bad thing......
Shadowbard
School illusion (shadow) [shadow]; Level bard 5
You conjure up a quasi-real phantom singer that is visible as a shifting, shadowy duplicate of yourself. The singer follows you automatically, moving as you move even if you teleport. The singer cannot be damaged, but can be dispelled. When a shadowbard comes into being, it immediately begins a bardic performance of your choice—it has access to all of the bardic performances that you do. It continues that bardic performance until you direct it as a move action to switch to a different performance. Rounds spent by a shadowbard creating a bardic performance do not decrease the number of rounds you can use your own bardic performance, nor can a shadowbard’s bardic performance be used to trigger spells that require you to begin or cease a bardic performance.
Virtuoso performance also works as a lv4 bard spell, or perhaps Exquisite Accompaniment could work too
I don't think Shadowbard would work for battle dance because battle dance is self-buffing only. The Shadowbard's Inspire would only affect the Shadowbard... which is entirely useless since Shadowbard can't attack.
The shadowbard would sing a normal inspire courage song. Nothing in dervish dancer removes the normal version of inspire courage.
Dervish dancers gain the inspire courage, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, but these only provide benefit to the dervish dancer himself.
I still think this is a moot point though because Rain of Blows is not a Battle Dance. It is part of a full attack action and does not expend performance rounds.
At 6th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to speed up his attacks.
A bard of 6th level or higher can use his performance to make a suggestion
So this is showing that Rain of Blows is indeed a Battle Dance for the bard.
The Dervish Dancer also still has the Inspire courage bard song. Thus the shadow bard can sing inspire courage for the area like a normal bard and then the Player can do the Rain of Blows Battle dance, thus getting both effects.
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At 6th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to speed up his attacks.
A bard of 6th level or higher can use his performance to make a suggestion
So this is showing that Rain of Blows is indeed a Battle Dance for the bard.
The Dervish Dancer also still has the Inspire courage bard song. Thus the shadow bard can sing inspire courage for the area like a normal bard and then the Player can do the Rain of Blows Battle dance, thus getting both effects.
Sorry, been busy at work. This is what I was going to post as it can act as a five round group buff when it first comes out, while the Dancer can have Rain of Blows or Razor's Kiss running.
There is also Virtuoso Performance
Virtuoso PerformanceSchool transmutation; Level bard 4
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V
Range personal
Target you
Duration 1 round/level
While this spell is active, you may start a second bardic performance while maintaining another. Starting the second performance costs 2 rounds of bardic performance instead of 1. Maintaining both performances costs a total of 3 rounds of bardic performance for each round they are maintained. When this spell ends, one of the performances ends immediately (your choice).
Virtuoso performance does not stack with any other method of maintaining simultaneous bardic performances.
Edit: I just noticed the Verbal component. I'm not sure now if it would work with the Dervish Dancer. Perhaps with the right GM, the component could be switched to Somatic?
what's the issue? All the bard spells have a verbal component
Reading it, the dances that the Dervish Dancer are:
-Inspire Courage
-Inspire Greatness
-Inspire Heroics
-Rain of Blows
-Razor's Kiss
-Leaf on the WindAll of these are separate dances that can not be used at the same time for stacking bonuses
I disagree.
The way i read the Archetype there are only three.
"Dervish dancers gain the inspire courage, inspire greatness, and inspire heroics bardic performance types as battle dances, but these only provide benefit to the dervish dancer himself."
Nothing in the description of Rain of Blows, Razor's Kiss or Leaf of Wind says that they are new Battle Dances, but rather they are worded in a way that implies that they modify Battle Dancing.
For example that makes it clear:
"At 14th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to evade attacks with unearthly grace and to shake off the effects of his wounds."
Highlighting "*HIS* battle dance", not "*THIS* battle dance"!
At 1st level, a bard can use his performance to counter magic effects that depend on sight.
At 1st level, a bard can use his performance to cause one or more creatures to become fascinated with him.
A 1st level bard can use his performance to inspire courage in his allies (including himself),
A bard of 3rd level or higher can use his performance to help an ally succeed at a task.
A bard of 8th level or higher can use his performance to foster a sense of growing dread in his enemies,
A bard of 9th level or higher can use his performance to inspire greatness in himself or a single willing ally
At 6th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to speed up his attacks.
At 8th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to improve his weapons’ critical range.
At 14th level, a dervish dancer can use his battle dance to evade attacks with unearthly grace and to shake off the effects of his wounds. Unlike other battle dances, leaf on the wind requires a standard action each round to start or maintain the performance.
So if you're still set on them only modifying battle dance, then you must be okay with all the bard abilities just modifying bardic performance, so you do all of them at once. And if you had read the second line of the ability you quoted you see it say that activating leaf on the wind requires a standard action, unlike the other battle dances. Now that is an odd thing to include if leaf on the wind wasn't a battle dance.