Goblin Squad Member
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I believe community morale is better served by leaving such contingency plan revelations until such a time as they are needed.
Granted to hear those plans immediately upon failure would go far to encourage continued interest, but for now let us just stay tuned, not just hoping for the best of all possible worlds, but doing what we can to bring that about.
We have three incremental potential accelerators, at $1 million, $2 million and $3 million. The $3 million "best case" is covered in the video for the Kickstarter.
The public vid? Or in the video that the tech demo backers got? I ask because I'm not seeing that info on any of the vids here..
We have three incremental potential accelerators, at $1 million, $2 million and $3 million. The $3 million "best case" is covered in the video for the Kickstarter.The public vid? Or in the video that the tech demo backers got? I ask because I'm not seeing that info on any of the vids here..
Ok, I think I've found that video. It's a Vemo vid that's on this page
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Goblin Squad Member
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Having followed Elite: Dangerous closely lately, I have to admit a week ago I really had my doubts that it'd be funded. It was still shy of a million, and hadn't moved much at all for a couple of weeks. Today, it's at 1,4 mill with seven hours to go.
It has raked in $650,000 in the last few days. That's pretty amazing, and makes me quite hopeful for PFO, even though I'm sure it's getting a little more exciting than anyone would have preferred.
If I was a developer I'd be less worried about reaching the million dollar goal, and more concerned about the relatively small number of pledges. Is interest in this type of game really so low? Or has GW failed to stir the pot as much as other games?
Or perhaps we are to blame! With a fairly high average pledge there's no doubt about our passionate for this game, but perhaps D&D nerds make poor salesmen.
*ducks, runs and hides*
:)
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CEO, Goblinworks
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@Slaunyeh - I think that this project has struggled from the start with an awareness challenge. It seems that every time we get a little bit of press coverage outside of the Pathfinder home community we get a nice spike of activity. That tells me that there's a lot of folks out there who would be interested in the project but just don't know about it.
We've been working on that problem for weeks, running advertisements in various venues and directly reaching out to the leaders of large guilds in the MMO space. But we're only slowly moving that needle.
Getting our fans energized to get out of the box and go into the wider MMO world and spread the world is the biggest thing everyone can do to help the Kickstarter succeed at this juncture.
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Slaunyeh - I think that this project has struggled from the start with an awareness challenge. It seems that every time we get a little bit of press coverage outside of the Pathfinder home community we get a nice spike of activity. That tells me that there's a lot of folks out there who would be interested in the project but just don't know about it.
We've been working on that problem for weeks, running advertisements in various venues and directly reaching out to the leaders of large guilds in the MMO space. But we're only slowly moving that needle.
Getting our fans energized to get out of the box and go into the wider MMO world and spread the world is the biggest thing everyone can do to help the Kickstarter succeed at this juncture.
Well the add-on stuff sure has helped out and seems to be taking off. Keep more of those little add-on items coming. Also explain better what some of them are. I posted a question to you on the kickstarter page today and I hope you will get back to us about it. Basically wanting to know more about what the player pack and such gives us.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I posted a question to you on the kickstarter page today and I hope you will get back to us about it. Basically wanting to know more about what the player pack and such gives us.
That was announced in Kickstarter Update #21
New Player Pack (included at $35 Adventurer or higher)
This pack contains a selection of low-level consumable items, such as healing potions, scrolls, weapon enchants, and maps. In addition, the character gains a bag of holding to allow them to carry more equipment, a ring of protection to boost their defenses, and a small amount of coinage to get the character started.
Alliance Package (included at $100 Crowdforger Pioneer or higher)
This pack gives the character an increase in Alliance ranking with one of Pathfinder Online's Alliances (Hellknights, Pathfinder Society, Knights of Iomedae, Denizens of the Echo Wood, and others yet to be announced) of compatible alignment with the character. The character automatically becomes a member of that Alliance, though opposing Alliances will now be hostile to him. The player also receives a small selection of consumable items unique to the Alliance, and a piece of armor, wondrous item, or weapon associated with the Alliance, such as a Pathfinder Society wayfinder.
Having followed Elite: Dangerous closely lately, I have to admit a week ago I really had my doubts that it'd be funded. It was still shy of a million, and hadn't moved much at all for a couple of weeks. Today, it's at 1,4 mill with seven hours to go.
It has raked in $650,000 in the last few days. That's pretty amazing, and makes me quite hopeful for PFO, even though I'm sure it's getting a little more exciting than anyone would have preferred.
If I was a developer I'd be less worried about reaching the million dollar goal, and more concerned about the relatively small number of pledges. Is interest in this type of game really so low? Or has GW failed to stir the pot as much as other games?
Or perhaps we are to blame! With a fairly high average pledge there's no doubt about our passionate for this game, but perhaps D&D nerds make poor salesmen.
*ducks, runs and hides*
:)
I honestly think its the fact its an mmo, its a sandbox (thank you GW) and people don't really realize what a sandbox is, and I think a lot of people are turned off by the pvp aspect and eve play style they are promoting for the game. GW has targeted a very very small and specific target group. which is a good thing as most of us have not had a game catered to us like this one is. but at the same time it could be a bad thing due to not enough player interest/support. honestly on the bad side of the niche they are targeting, i feel the negative impact is negligible as GW did research for the market before committing to this path.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wonder why only the few indie bloggers have really gotten into socializing the property? Surely there isn't pressure being applied? I haven't seen a peep about it on Ars Technica or Wired. Many of us older types who were into D&D and AD&D back in the Neolithic age read those rags all the time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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GW has targeted a very very small and specific target group. which is a good thing as most of us have not had a game catered to us like this one is. but at the same time it could be a bad thing due to not enough player interest/support. honestly on the bad side of the niche they are targeting, i feel the negative impact is negligible as GW did research for the market before committing to this path.
I do not believe this is a niche game nor do I believe GW is targeting a niche audience. I do strongly believe this type of game will overtake theme park MMORPGs by a very large margin in due time. Sometimes it's very hard to sell a vision to people who haven't seen anything similar before. You can't really sell why this gameplay is attractive, people just have to trust your vision and then they will see how great it is when it comes to fruition.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I do not believe this is a niche game nor do I believe GW is targeting a niche audience. I do strongly believe this type of game will overtake theme park MMORPGs by a very large margin in due time. Sometimes it's very hard to sell a vision to people who haven't seen anything similar before. You can't really sell why this gameplay is attractive, people just have to trust your vision and then they will see how great it is when it comes to fruition.
^This
Believe me, killing 10 rats to prevent them from diseasing your entire settlement's larder is far more meaningful than doing it because some quest-giver said so. With a sandbox game vs a themepark, once you realize everything you do has an overarching purpose, it stops being a grind and starts becoming interesting.
I will add here that themeparks at endgame can be fun if you're a contributing member to an active, thriving guild. After upgrading your gear from all those raids, you give the stuff you don't need to others in the guild who don't have the time commitment to raid as actively. Or if you're mass-crafting hundreds or even thousands of consumables, they are actually serving the purpose of going towards guild raiding.
I call this a "pseudo-sandbox", and it's making lotro bearable enough for me to hold out until PFO comes out.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wonder why only the few indie bloggers have really gotten into socializing the property? Surely there isn't pressure being applied? I haven't seen a peep about it on Ars Technica or Wired. Many of us older types who were into D&D and AD&D back in the Neolithic age read those rags all the time.
I sent a recommendation to Ars Technica to interview Mr. Dancey about PFO a few weeks ago. Perhaps I'll try again when they're down to a week left.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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We should get a list of sites together for everyone to shot a message to, then stage a staggered messaging so they don't get bombarded all at once, but instead get messages over the next 8 days from several people.
I hit up everyone I knew, but if we unified the effort and directed the community it would probably help in getting some more facetime.
You guys should see if you can get a mention in Penny Arcade's news post before the Kickstarter closes. I'm sure Mike or Jerry wouldn't mind throwing a bone your way, and that can be a huge attention grab.
Too bad TechTV is no longer around, talk about getting the word out! :)
Dakcenturi, I'm game to mail some sites about PFO, or an interview. If you want to get a list together to try a coordinated mail?
GW has targeted a very very small and specific target group. which is a good thing as most of us have not had a game catered to us like this one is. but at the same time it could be a bad thing due to not enough player interest/support. honestly on the bad side of the niche they are targeting, i feel the negative impact is negligible as GW did research for the market before committing to this path.I do not believe this is a niche game nor do I believe GW is targeting a niche audience. I do strongly believe this type of game will overtake theme park MMORPGs by a very large margin in due time. Sometimes it's very hard to sell a vision to people who haven't seen anything similar before. You can't really sell why this gameplay is attractive, people just have to trust your vision and then they will see how great it is when it comes to fruition.
GW even stated either in a blog or on the forums this is a niche game for a niche market.as far as why this gameplay style is attractive, people need look no further then eve online, ultima online, and pre new game enhancements star wars galaxies.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I wonder why only the few indie bloggers have really gotten into socializing the property? Surely there isn't pressure being applied? I haven't seen a peep about it on Ars Technica or Wired. Many of us older types who were into D&D and AD&D back in the Neolithic age read those rags all the time.
Wired covered the 1st kickstarter. Guess more hesitant in terms of a 2nd KS...
Mondes/Gamer PC for FRA/DEU sites covered this 2nd KS, is good to see for those countries.mmorpgitalia.it seems to have covered it in Italy also good to see. :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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Good to know the Euros are on the ball as usual. I didn't realize Wired had been up to the plate already.
Avena any idea why Wired might be gunshy now?
From what I have seen websites generally are more shy of 2nd KSs. Unless there's new major content to expose, they generally take the "washing of hands" approach if they do even mention it; I guess it's a "pass the hat to someone else now" reaction?
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Goblin Squad Member
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@Slaunyeh - I think that this project has struggled from the start with an awareness challenge. It seems that every time we get a little bit of press coverage outside of the Pathfinder home community we get a nice spike of activity. That tells me that there's a lot of folks out there who would be interested in the project but just don't know about it.
I agree, and I've been trying to put my finger on the reasons for this. Coming up blank though, as I'm sure the backers for PFO aren't inherently worse at hyping their project than the fans of a game from 1988. :p (seriously, Elite: Dangerous got an article in Forbes! Hans Grüber knows about them now!)
One thing I've noticed is that PFO has some very spaced out pledges. I'm pledged at the $175 level mainly because the jump to the next tier ($400) is huge. Nothing between $15 and $35, etc. Which has maybe kept some people from pledging as much as they would have liked to. I don't know if that has much of an effect, but it's certainly where PFO seems to deviate from similar kickstarters.
Of course, that has been fixed tremendously (imho) with the add-ons added over the last few days. So perhaps less of a concern now than it was last week.
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Goblin Squad Member
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(seriously, Elite: Dangerous got an article in Forbes! Hans Grüber knows about them now!)So did Pathfinder Online. ^_^
That's an entirely different kickstarter than this one though. :) Which I think is an important distinction. Until recently (like, yesterday) when I googled "kickstarter pathfinder online" (which I did whenever I wanted to check out the status of the PFO kickstarter) I'd get a link to the Pathfinder Tech Demo kickstarter page, plus several articles about the tech demo kickstarter. No link whatsoever to the actual active kickstarter page.
I noticed yesterday, that now I actually get a link to the current kickstarter campaign. First hit too. So something must have happened. Good thing!
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Goblin Squad Member
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Beware from sending email or contacting directly magazines.
Their reaction is not always the expected one...
I read that article when they first posted it, and I still think it's really bad taste. I'd think that receiving reports about potentially news worthy stories would be a significant portion of their job description. And it's Massively's job to determine what's interesting, not whine about people contacting them. Sure, random people don't coordinate their efforts, and some people are rude. Hey Massively: Welcome to the Internet.
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Goblin Squad Member
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As far as why this gameplay style is attractive, people need look no further then Eve Online, Ultima Online, and pre new game enhancements Star Wars Galaxies.
Does anyone know of places where a lot of former SWG players hang out? Having their game yanked out from under them and turned into EverQuest-with-laser-swords might still burn enough to motivate them into investigating PFO enough to really 'grok' it.
Beware from sending email or contacting directly magazines.
Their reaction is not always the expected one...
Huh, they did an interview with Ryan back in early Dec. that I've not seen before. I'm sure there is a link here somewhere, but I haven't come across it.
It's not a long interview, but it's interesting. (to me)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I read that article when they first posted it, and I still think it's really bad taste. I'd think that receiving reports about potentially news worthy stories would be a significant portion of their job description. And it's Massively's job to determine what's interesting, not whine about people contacting them. Sure, random people don't coordinate their efforts, and some people are rude. Hey Massively: Welcome to the Internet.Beware from sending email or contacting directly magazines.
Their reaction is not always the expected one...
That all said, it's media and they need to publish "big content" - so if people wish to post them stuff: It needs to be more substantial than "cover this naow!" - there's got to be some bargaining power/bringing something valuable into the deal. :)
Yeah? Well I did.
Played both games actually :)
pre NGE pre CU was far better then ever quest, I play all of soe's products at some point. I Much preferred the sandbox system the had prior to making it NGE and "Iconic" classes and working like a wow clone with a talent system identical to wow.
As far as where all of the SWG folks went. Most hit up SWTOR or disappeared all together. heck a good number of them i think are actively browsing and commenting in these very forums from time to time.
We all pretty much scattered like dust in the wind as soon as the NGE got dropped on us.
I would have already posted in the swtor forums but since i no longer have a subscription and refuse to get one for the game i can not post in their forums. I doubt many of the galaxies crowd is even hanging around swtor anymore anyways. I forked out for the collector's edition, they announced free to play less then a year after they vehemently claimed they would never go free to play. i washed my hands of the game and of EA/Bioware.
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Goblin Squad Member
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IMO things like the PDF superpack are the way to go. Everyone at the $100 and higher level gets it, it is worth well over $100, but it costs Goblinworks nothing (though Paizo and other contribs will presumably have some level of lost sales as a result).
Advertise that to everyone who has ever bought a PDF from paizo.com and you might get a large number of backers even from people who have no interest in the MMO at all. I've already got many of the PDFs being offered, but would have signed up at $100 for the rest even if I wasn't already backing the MMO. Maybe start adding in things like PDFs of FUTURE products if $650k, $700k, et cetera are reached to entice people who have all the existing materials they want.
You could also give away rewards that have a cost associated with them, but that gets tricky between the cost and the added income to the kickstarter. Paizo has occasional sales to clear out old inventory which is (presumably) taking up storage space. Maybe you could have an 'add-on' where people could get those kinds of physical materials for the shipping costs, but only if they had first pledged to the kickstarter at some level.
Right now people are mostly backing this kickstarter because they want to play the MMO. The most successful kickstarters I have seen have been situations where people wanted the rewards and the success of the actual project was just a nice side benefit. Having those rewards be part of the game is a good thought (e.g. adventurer pack / alliance pack / et cetera), but tricky with an MMO because they don't have any intrinsic value and you don't want to give out so many rewards that you unbalance the game.
IMO things like the PDF superpack are the way to go. Everyone at the $100 and higher level gets it, it is worth well over $100, but it costs Goblinworks nothing (though Paizo and other contribs will presumably have some level of lost sales as a result).
Advertise that to everyone who has ever bought a PDF from paizo.com and you might get a large number of backers even from people who have no interest in the MMO at all. I've already got many of the PDFs being offered, but would have signed up at $100 for the rest even if I wasn't already backing the MMO. Maybe start adding in things like PDFs of FUTURE products if $650k, $700k, et cetera are reached to entice people who have all the existing materials they want.
You could also give away rewards that have a cost associated with them, but that gets tricky between the cost and the added income to the kickstarter. Paizo has occasional sales to clear out old inventory which is (presumably) taking up storage space. Maybe you could have an 'add-on' where people could get those kinds of physical materials for the shipping costs, but only if they had first pledged to the kickstarter at some level.
Right now people are mostly backing this kickstarter because they want to play the MMO. The most successful kickstarters I have seen have been situations where people wanted the rewards and the success of the actual project was just a nice side benefit. Having those rewards be part of the game is a good thought (e.g. adventurer pack / alliance pack / et cetera), but tricky with an MMO because they don't have any intrinsic value and you don't want to give out so many rewards that you unbalance the game.
paizo has sent out emails to everyone on their mailing list about the emerald spire super dungeon and this pdf super pack.
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Goblin Squad Member
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IMO things like the PDF superpack are the way to go. Everyone at the $100 and higher level gets it, it is worth well over $100, but it costs Goblinworks nothing (though Paizo and other contribs will presumably have some level of lost sales as a result).
up until now I wouldn't touch 3rd party material with a standard issue 10' pole, most of my P&P buddies won't either.
So with me at least, they are not loosing a customer and actually might convince me to become one.once I've read through all that stuff.
Right now people are mostly backing this kickstarter because they want to play the MMO.
really? my impression was that folks are mostly in it for the P&P loot. Judging from the comments in the kickstarter over xMas at least.
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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As far as why this gameplay style is attractive, people need look no further then Eve Online, Ultima Online, and pre new game enhancements Star Wars Galaxies.Does anyone know of places where a lot of former SWG players hang out? Having their game yanked out from under them and turned into EverQuest-with-laser-swords might still burn enough to motivate them into investigating PFO enough to really 'grok' it.
Google "swgemu".
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Right now people are mostly backing this kickstarter because they want to play the MMO.really? my impression was that folks are mostly in it for the P&P loot. Judging from the comments in the kickstarter over xMas at least.
Doesn't this, in the long run, actually run counter to the goals of GoblinWorks? They are getting contributions from people who are not actually interested in the product they are making. Up until now one could assume that everyone who's pitched in would be a potential future player and thus most certainly a future subscriber. By selling an only tangentially related product to fund their Kickstarter, there's likely to be many more contributors who are not interested in supporting the actual product when it comes out. Unlike the people who are in for the actual in-game benefits when the product finally ships, people who are shilling in just for the PnP stuff do not translate to potential surefire subscribers in the future.
That said, I'm not personally pitching in for this Kickstarter. The idea of a fantasy sandbox MMO appeals to me, but as of now this thing is still so up in the air that I can't justify contributing monetarily. I'm an instant gratification sort of guy and I've been burned on a number of Kickstarters that promised me product at a certain time only to push back their deadlines over and over again. I'd hate to become emotionally (and monetarily) invested in the potential of getting to play a fantasy sandbox that might see the light of day as early as one year of now. I'll probably check out PFO when it comes out.
I suspect a lot of other potential contributors feel the same way.
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Goblin Squad Member
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It seems like a significant cultural shift has happened when it is considered illogical for people to contribute to a project they may never actually use. It is as if people cannot wrap their minds around non-selfish motivations. Once, but it was long ago, people thought helping others out was a generally good thing to do. Now people are just bewildered unless everyone is only in it for whatever they can loot.
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It seems like a significant cultural shift has happened when it is considered illogical for people to contribute to a project they may never actually use. It is as if people cannot wrap their minds around non-selfish motivations. Once, but it was long ago, people thought helping others out was a generally good thing to do. Now people are just bewildered unless everyone is only in it for whatever they can loot.
People contributing to a project to get a ton of RPG .pdfs for cheap ≠ non-selfish motivations, at least in my mind. The people contributing just for the .pdf pack are still getting a substantially greater reward for money spent. That's the point I was trying to get across: not that it isn't noble to throw money at a project in spite of the project itself being of no use to you, but it's not exactly the epitome of selflessness when your donation gets you more than your money's worth in other stuff.
I'm trying to think of this from the point of view of GoblinWorks: sure, the .pdf packs provided courtesy of Paizo are a pretty sweet deal and a good seller to get more of the PnP-only crowd to contribute to the project, but since those contributions don't actually translate to future subscribers, it feels dissonant at best.
EDIT: To me it just seems like GoblinWorks is shooting itself in the foot by courting contributors who are not actually interested in supporting their product with subscriptions once the product ships.