DHS has spent $430 million over the past nine years to provide radios
tuned to a common, secure channel to 123,000 employees across the
country. Problem is, no one seems to know how to use them.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/11/homeland-security-spent-430m-on- radios-its-employees-dont-know-how-to-use/
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Who's surprised? Really?
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DHS hires idiots (with the exception of Border Patrol and Air/Marine), their training and upgrade program is still new, and they probably didnt allocate money for the contractor that supplied the radios to provide training as well. They have serious issues with standardization across the board so this is par for the course.
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Now where is BitterThorn when you need him? :)
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Can I blame this one on Public Schools ?
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I'm certain they can come up with another 30-50 million to cover training seminars with handy instructional DVDs and illustrated user manuals. It's not like they don't have deep pockets.
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More serious, my day job just did the same thing with the phone system. We're still learning how to use it. To me, this is a non story - every organization does this with the communications system sooner or later.
Now where is BitterThorn when you need him? :)
Our tax dollars at work.
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More serious, my day job just did the same thing with the phone system. We're still learning how to use it. To me, this is a non story - every organization does this with the communications system sooner or later.
I have to disagree with you about this being a non story.
This is just one example of how the post 9-11 police state has utterly failed.
DHS was entrusted with hundreds of millions of tax payer dollars, expansive police powers, and has had more than a decade to find a way to communicate on a common frequency during an emergency. This failure is not just a tragic waste of taxpayer dollars. It's also a national safety issue. We had the same safety issue pre 9-11, but at least it wasn't also wasting hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars.
This is also just one of many many problems with the hundreds of billions wasted post 9-11.
I really don't think we are any safer now that DHS/TSA strip searches granny and gropes small children.
The government may have even found new ways to waste hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to make us lass safe.
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I really don't think we are any safer now that DHS/TSA strip searches granny and gropes small children.
The government may have even found new ways to waste hundreds of billions of taxpayer dollars to make us lass safe.
The DHS is a gigantic waste of time and effort, and in my opinion is a prime example of the worst in government. I'd much, much rather have seen that money spend on infrastructure, education, etc.
I'd much rather that my grandkids were not on the hook for about half of this wasteful spending.
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Down with the...oh, hey BT, you've got this covered? Alright, sweet.
I'd much rather that my grandkids were not on the hook for about half of this wasteful spending.
Solution: don't procreate.
This is another issue of people in charge that do not understand communications equipment and systems. Many think that radios are substitute Star Trek communicators and do not require training, skill, or any amount of technical proficiency to operate them.
Another issue with communications systems is that they are usually afterthoughts. Those attitudes are changing. Slowly. The military understands how incredibly important it is by making communications its own section with staff officers and technicians. In the civilian side, commo is usually shunted off for "somebody" to handle for them. Equipment is bought haphazardly and shoehorned to fit whatever needs the agency has.
This is not wasteful spending but it is inefficient. It is vitally important to have a communications system that can be used throughout the nation. The patchwork, hodge-podge system we have now is a critical security and public safety issue that has to be addressed. This is a first step toward that.
I recall when the rollout for AEDs (Auto-Defibrillators) for all public buildings happened. Didn't include training by the personnel occupying the buildings either. Training funding came later.
This is standard bureaucratic, political, and corporate folderol (which I hate too). But nothing new if you've worked in communications.
Oh good grief, I just realized I've been at this biz for 26+ years. I'm so OLD!
This is another issue of people in charge that do not understand communications equipment and systems. Many think that radios are substitute Star Trek communicators and do not require training, skill, or any amount of technical proficiency to operate them.
Another issue with communications systems is that they are usually afterthoughts. Those attitudes are changing. Slowly. The military understands how incredibly important it is by making communications its own section with staff officers and technicians. In the civilian side, commo is usually shunted off for "somebody" to handle for them. Equipment is bought haphazardly and shoehorned to fit whatever needs the agency has.
This is not wasteful spending but it is inefficient. It is vitally important to have a communications system that can be used throughout the nation. The patchwork, hodge-podge system we have now is a critical security and public safety issue that has to be addressed. This is a first step toward that.
I recall when the rollout for AEDs (Auto-Defibrillators) for all public buildings happened. Didn't include training by the personnel occupying the buildings either. Training funding came later.
This is standard bureaucratic, political, and corporate folderol (which I hate too). But nothing new if you've worked in communications.
Oh good grief, I just realized I've been at this biz for 26+ years. I'm so OLD!
I don't dispute that these are worth while goals per se, but even if we accept for the sake of discussion that what DHS is trying to accomplish is a good idea the fact remains that DHS/TSA has had 11 years and $430 million to get this done, and they have seriously screwed the pooch.
I seriously doubt that anyone will be held accountable for the money that has been wasted in this case. There are plenty of examples of corruption, waste, and incompetence in DHS, TSA, and FEMA, but the billions just keep flowing in without any meaningful oversight.
This just seems to be way government runs. Military, education, law enforcement, infrastructure and so forth do a dreadful job managing their budgets in many cases, but the billions keep pouring in without fixing the problems.
Butbutbut... why AREN'T they Star trek communicators? Really? Press a button and say who you want to talk to should not require magic today.
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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You'd think it'd be easier to get multiple agencies on the same freq. I mean, any civilian with a police scanner can listen on the police freq. Why can't government civilian employees do the same thing?
But, as the saying goes, if comms ain't broke, ain't NOTHING broke.
You'd think it'd be easier to get multiple agencies on the same freq. I mean, any civilian with a police scanner can listen on the police freq. Why can't government civilian employees do the same thing?
But, as the saying goes, if comms ain't broke, ain't NOTHING broke.
The government thought process seems to continue to be, "Five hundred million here ten billion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money."
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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The government thought process seems to continue to be, "Five hundred million here ten billion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money."
Oh, right, I can tell you how it went down. It's throwing money at a problem expecting that the dollar amount alone will fix it. Now some mid- to high-level bureaucrat can say, "we spent $430M to fix this cross-agency communication problem, and it still isn't fixed; raise my budget."
Sprinkle, sprinkle, little bar, what I wonder is a cat!
The government thought process seems to continue to be, "Five hundred million here ten billion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money."You'd think it'd be easier to get multiple agencies on the same freq. I mean, any civilian with a police scanner can listen on the police freq. Why can't government civilian employees do the same thing?
But, as the saying goes, if comms ain't broke, ain't NOTHING broke.
Well, on the one hand, when you're trying to govern a nation of 300+ million people with a GDP of ~$15 trillion, that doesn't seem all that unrealistic.
This is exactly why it's so difficult to treat big government statists with any respect. You seem to think that the government wasting tens of billions of dollars is a joke then you blather on about how some taxpayers are not paying their fair share. When the state makes the argument, "We've wasted trillions of dollars. We deserve more!" it's not just stupid, it's immoral.
The government thought process seems to continue to be, "Five hundred million here ten billion there, pretty soon you're talking about real money."Oh, right, I can tell you how it went down. It's throwing money at a problem expecting that the dollar amount alone will fix it. Now some mid- to high-level bureaucrat can say, "we spent $430M to fix this cross-agency communication problem, and it still isn't fixed; raise my budget."
This is why every facet of government does so badly. It's so big that billions of dollars of stupidity are laughed off like rounding errors. It's not their money so there's virtually no sense of responsibility. Horrifying waste and stupidity are rewarded with budget increases, but not wasting money is punished in the budget process.
In big government the cycle of failure just keeps going and going. The state fails then says it just needs more power and money. It gets more power and money then it continues to fail. Then it gets more money and power and fails even more tragically.
I just don't get why people not only vote for this system, but many seem to cling desperately to it like some kind of sick religion. Tragic.
Yeah, we have the 4th largest area and 3rd largest population. Nothing on a nationwide basis is going to be cheap.
I don't dispute that these are worth while goals per se, but even if we accept for the sake of discussion that what DHS is trying to accomplish is a good idea the fact remains that DHS/TSA has had 11 years and $430 million to get this done, and they have seriously screwed the pooch.
I seriously doubt that anyone will be held accountable for the money that has been wasted in this case. There are plenty of examples of corruption, waste, and incompetence in DHS, TSA, and FEMA, but the billions just keep flowing in without any meaningful oversight.
This just seems to be way...
Privitization and capitalism along with having to deal with the staggering number of local, county, state, and federal jurisdictions add levels of extreme complexity. Unless there is a plan for government agencies to provide for themselves without purchasing from private companies and run roughshod over the locals, it is the best that can be done.
Our nation is big and unwieldy. Agencies are trying to revolutionize the way they operate. And I'm sorry to say that approx $40 million a year to radically transform communications equipment, frequencies, broadcasting, procedures, policies, and resolve jurisdictional issues to create a nation-wide interoperabile digital radio system is a bargain.
On top of all that, communications technology keeps improving and advancing in capability...
I don't dispute that these are worth while goals per se, but even if we accept for the sake of discussion that what DHS is trying to accomplish is a good idea the fact remains that DHS/TSA has had 11 years and $430 million to get this done, and they have seriously screwed the pooch.
I seriously doubt that anyone will be held accountable for the money that has been wasted in this case. There are plenty of examples of corruption, waste, and incompetence in DHS, TSA, and FEMA, but the billions just keep flowing in without any meaningful oversight.
This just seems to be way...
Privitization and capitalism along with having to deal with the staggering number of local, county, state, and federal jurisdictions add levels of extreme complexity. Unless there is a plan for government agencies to provide for themselves without purchasing from private companies and run roughshod over the locals, it is the best that can be done.
Our nation is big and unwieldy. Agencies are trying to revolutionize the way they operate. And I'm sorry to say that approx $40 million a year to radically transform communications equipment, frequencies, broadcasting, procedures, policies, and resolve jurisdictional issues to create a nation-wide interoperabile digital radio system is a bargain.
On top of all that, communications technology keeps improving and advancing in capability...
How is it a bargain when it's a complete failure?
Seriously!?
Let me guess; they just need more money and power.
BTW what does privatization have to do with this? We were told the only way to keep us safe was to nationalize TSA functions. This is the opposite of privatization.
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How is it a bargain when it's a complete failure?
Seriously!?
Yes. $40 million a year to make such a massive change is the equivalent of going to Dollar General to renovate your house. Sure it can be done, but it takes a lot of work and focus. Obviously, this project did not get the required effort put into it.
Yes. $40 million a year to make such a massive change is the equivalent of going to Dollar General to renovate your house. Sure it can be done, but it takes a lot of work and focus. Obviously, this project did not get the required effort put into it.How is it a bargain when it's a complete failure?
Seriously!?
I still don't follow how pissing away $430,000,000 to completely fail at the stated goal is a bargain.
If we throw another billion at the problem and that completely fails is that an even bigger bargain?
I don't follow how this is a bargain.
The TSA has an awful history of corruption and incompetence. Do you think we should give them more money?
How is it a bargain when it's a complete failure?
Seriously!?
Let me guess; they just need more money and power.
BTW what does privatization have to do with this? We were told the only way to keep us safe was to nationalize TSA functions. This is the opposite of privatization.
Not a failure. The project isn't complete. Big difference.
Well, doing it on the cheap as we have so far seems to be getting swift, sterling results...
A lot or work is being done by independent contractors rather than government employess or agents. Nationalizing just meant creating a new agency to coordinate and develop responses. And more efficiently hand out govt contracts to private companies.
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I still don't follow how pissing away $430,000,000 to completely fail at the stated goal is a bargain.
If we throw another billion at the problem and that completely fails is that an even bigger bargain?
I don't follow how this is a bargain.
Of course you don't. All you are choosing to see is 'government spent $430 million over 11 years and still hasn't completed the project'.
I guarantee they have something to show for it. They bought equipment. Unless there has been severe negligence, they still have it. It can still be put to use.
Abandoning the project now and not using that equipment would be pissing that money away.
No, "throwing another billion" at it will not solve it. Figuring out where the hold up is and fixing the problem will. It probably won't even take a billion to do it. But yes, it will take money. Everything in life does.
Accurate application of capital saves more money than withholding capital does.
I recall when the rollout for AEDs (Auto-Defibrillators) for all public buildings happened. Didn't include training by the personnel occupying the buildings either. Training funding came later.
Personal Anecdote: Walmart Warehouses pay their medical response teams' AED training. (Im on my warehouse's team) But they refuse to buy AED's. Its pretty much the exact opposite problem.
How is it a bargain when it's a complete failure?
Seriously!?
Let me guess; they just need more money and power.
BTW what does privatization have to do with this? We were told the only way to keep us safe was to nationalize TSA functions. This is the opposite of privatization.
Not a failure. The project isn't complete. Big difference.
Well, doing it on the cheap as we have so far seems to be getting swift, sterling results...
A lot or work is being done by independent contractors rather than government employess or agents. Nationalizing just meant creating a new agency to coordinate and develop responses. And more efficiently hand out govt contracts to private companies.
"Doing it on the cheap."
According to the article 123,000 employees and $430 million would mean ~ $3,495 for hardware, training and support per employee if every employee had hardware. It's safe to assume that not every employee has one of these radios.
What do you think DHS and TSA are more efficient than?
I still don't follow how pissing away $430,000,000 to completely fail at the stated goal is a bargain.
If we throw another billion at the problem and that completely fails is that an even bigger bargain?
I don't follow how this is a bargain.
Of course you don't. All you are choosing to see is 'government spent $430 million over 11 years and still hasn't completed the project'.
I guarantee they have something to show for it. They bought equipment. Unless there has been severe negligence, they still have it. It can still be put to use.
Abandoning the project now and not using that equipment would be pissing that money away.
No, "throwing another billion" at it will not solve it. Figuring out where the hold up is and fixing the problem will. It probably won't even take a billion to do it. But yes, it will take money. Everything in life does.
Accurate application of capital saves more money than withholding capital does.
They have know about gross failures in training since at least 2003. IG reports and GAO reports have highlighted the failure. 72% of personnel surveyed don't even know this channel exists.
This sure seems like a case of the taxpayers paying for the hardware and support, but the management has utterly failed to train the personnel year after year.
It strikes me as a fundamental leadership failure.
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The TSA and DHS seem to be more efficient than our swedish work-seeker authority. Several thousands employed... 2004 saw them match FOUR jobs to work-seekers. Even so, the politicians would not abolish the authority. After all, it would mean SEVERAL THOUSAND UNEMPLOYED!!! So they kept their jobs. Yeah. Not making this up, sadly.
Not an actual bargain. An attempt at a bargain. Trying to do it on the cheap and screwing it up.Yes. $40 million a year to make such a massive change is the equivalent of going to Dollar General to renovate your house. Sure it can be done, but it takes a lot of work and focus. Obviously, this project did not get the required effort put into it.How is it a bargain when it's a complete failure?
Seriously!?
I still don't follow how pissing away $430,000,000 to completely fail at the stated goal is a bargain.
If we throw another billion at the problem and that completely fails is that an even bigger bargain?
I don't follow how this is a bargain.
The TSA has an awful history of corruption and incompetence. Do you think we should give them more money?
Now THIS I would buy. That said, they don't know how to use the equipment yet- are they in training for it?
Personal Anecdote: Walmart Warehouses pay their medical response teams' AED training. (Im on my warehouse's team) But they refuse to buy AED's. Its pretty much the exact opposite problem.
I recall when the rollout for AEDs (Auto-Defibrillators) for all public buildings happened. Didn't include training by the personnel occupying the buildings either. Training funding came later.
I think depending on your state and who you work for, AED is now officially a part of first aid training- you're going to get it regardless of whether or not you have an AED at hand. Chest compressions and breathing for the individual aren't going anywhere anytime soon.
If I could get it done wholesale, I wonder how much it would cost to put all of you in FEMA camps?
I tried that. It didn't work in 2006 and it won't now. Thanks for fighting the good fight, Barry.
I think depending on your state and who you work for, AED is now officially a part of first aid training- you're going to get it regardless of whether or not you have an AED at hand. Chest compressions and breathing for the individual aren't going anywhere anytime soon.Personal Anecdote: Walmart Warehouses pay their medical response teams' AED training. (Im on my warehouse's team) But they refuse to buy AED's. Its pretty much the exact opposite problem.
I recall when the rollout for AEDs (Auto-Defibrillators) for all public buildings happened. Didn't include training by the personnel occupying the buildings either. Training funding came later.
Yeah, I know. The response I keep getting from upper management is that they wont get us one because they are worried about our liability because we arent trained, which blatently ignores the fact that they pay to train us on them every two years. Not that you really need any training to use one. As long as you can understand English, they're pretty simple.
It also suggests that those trained employees and those defibrillators without trained personnel should be able to find each other...
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Yeah, I know. The response I keep getting from upper management is that they wont get us one because they are worried about our liability because we arent trained, which blatently ignores the fact that they pay to train us on them every two years. Not that you really need any training to use one. As long as you can understand English, they're pretty simple.I think depending on your state and who you work for, AED is now officially a part of first aid training- you're going to get it regardless of whether or not you have an AED at hand. Chest compressions and breathing for the individual aren't going anywhere anytime soon.Personal Anecdote: Walmart Warehouses pay their medical response teams' AED training. (Im on my warehouse's team) But they refuse to buy AED's. Its pretty much the exact opposite problem.
I recall when the rollout for AEDs (Auto-Defibrillators) for all public buildings happened. Didn't include training by the personnel occupying the buildings either. Training funding came later.
Don't confuse the management with facts. It confuses them. ;)
The TSA and DHS seem to be more efficient than our swedish work-seeker authority. Several thousands employed... 2004 saw them match FOUR jobs to work-seekers. Even so, the politicians would not abolish the authority. After all, it would mean SEVERAL THOUSAND UNEMPLOYED!!! So they kept their jobs. Yeah. Not making this up, sadly.
That's a terribly backhanded compliment.
Aeds can be misused all too easily but I think your company is going too far in their caution. Either someone isn't telling took sometime else or a mid level manager is being really cheap.
Yeah, I know. The response I keep getting from upper management is that they wont get us one because they are worried about our liability because we arent trained, which blatently ignores the fact that they pay to train us on them every two years. Not that you really need any training to use one. As long as you can understand English, they're pretty simple.I think depending on your state and who you work for, AED is now officially a part of first aid training- you're going to get it regardless of whether or not you have an AED at hand. Chest compressions and breathing for the individual aren't going anywhere anytime soon.Personal Anecdote: Walmart Warehouses pay their medical response teams' AED training. (Im on my warehouse's team) But they refuse to buy AED's. Its pretty much the exact opposite problem.
I recall when the rollout for AEDs (Auto-Defibrillators) for all public buildings happened. Didn't include training by the personnel occupying the buildings either. Training funding came later.
Aeds can be misused all too easily but I think your company is going too far in their caution. Either someone isn't telling took sometime else or a mid level manager is being really cheap.
The sad thing is they probably have other warehouses that have more AEDs than they can use, and nobody in upper management is worried enough to seriously look into the issue until after someone has a cardiac event.
That should read "either someone isn't talking to someone else"