johnlocke90 wrote: Ilja wrote: johnlocke90 wrote: This is a pretty big assumption. Nowhere does it state that the flow rate of water is dependent on the environment. It simply lists a flow rate for the water out of the decanter. What you are suggesting is that I change the flow rate from the listed value. Ultimately it doesn't matter though. Even if I accept your houserules, the water could be shot out of an air bubble or life shell and obtain the same results.
Also, water is considered incompressible for most intents and purposes. Not all. There is research into how water compresses at high and low pressures.
Nowhere do the rules state that the water can be compressed. It outputs 1 gallon of water and that is by RAW 1 gallon of water. To be able to change the volume of that water you need to house rule.
Come on, it's just ridiculous to start a thread like this and then use the sentence "even if I accept your houserules". The decanter would output a gallon of water. After the water is out of the decanter it would compress.
No houserule needed. Well except Pathfinder has no rules in it at all for Physics. It has general guidelines at best. Unless there is a rule about water compressing I missed, I admit I do not own the GMG.
Gauss wrote:
This entire thread is outside of RAW. It does not even belong in the rules forum.
You are correct:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/environmental-rules
"Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their size and the distance they have fallen. Table: Damage from Falling Objects determines the amount of damage dealt by an object based on its size. Note that this assumes that the object is made of dense, heavy material, such as stone. Objects made of lighter materials might deal as little as half the listed damage, subject to GM discretion. For example, a Huge boulder that hits a character deals 6d6 points of damage, whereas a Huge wooden wagon might deal only 3d6 damage. In addition, if an object falls less than 30 feet, it deals half the listed damage. If an object falls more than 150 feet, it deals double the listed damage. Note that a falling object takes the same amount of damage as it deals."
So the 0.7c 1 kg (rest mass) stone deals 4d6 dam, as its small size and has fallen more than 150 ft. :)
But there is a system inconsistency, per falling rules no falling object may under any circumstances deal more than 20d6, but in Golarion when Earthfall happened, the Starstone did more than 20d6 damage to its impact area. So i think per RAI it would be ok to rule that a 0.7c 1 kg stone does more than 4d6 dam. :)
carn wrote: Gauss wrote:
This entire thread is outside of RAW. It does not even belong in the rules forum.
You are correct:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/environmental-rules
"Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their size and the distance they have fallen. Table: Damage from Falling Objects determines the amount of damage dealt by an object based on its size. Note that this assumes that the object is made of dense, heavy material, such as stone. Objects made of lighter materials might deal as little as half the listed damage, subject to GM discretion. For example, a Huge boulder that hits a character deals 6d6 points of damage, whereas a Huge wooden wagon might deal only 3d6 damage. In addition, if an object falls less than 30 feet, it deals half the listed damage. If an object falls more than 150 feet, it deals double the listed damage. Note that a falling object takes the same amount of damage as it deals."
So the 0.7c 1 kg (rest mass) stone deals 4d6 dam, as its small size and has fallen more than 150 ft. :)
But there is a system inconsistency, per falling rules no falling object may under any circumstances deal more than 20d6, but in Golarion when Earthfall happened, the Starstone did more than 20d6 damage to its impact area. So i think per RAI it would be ok to rule that a 0.7c 1 kg stone does more than 4d6 dam. :) The Starstone used the power of plot to do what it did.
Gauss wrote: johnlock90, There are no rules regarding compression of water. Thus, there is no RAW. It is not RAW that water compresses. Strictly speaking, there is no RAW that dead people cannot act either. In order for something to be RAW it must be written. I challenge you to find a rule anywhere in the game that states water compresses.
This entire thread is outside of RAW. It does not even belong in the rules forum.
- Gauss
I think its important to distinguish between something contradicting raw and something not being addressed.
People claiming that the decanter would stop pouring water out are contradicting raw. I am simply discussing something not specifically addressed by raw.
carn wrote: Gauss wrote:
This entire thread is outside of RAW. It does not even belong in the rules forum.
You are correct:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/environment/environmental-rules
"Objects that fall upon characters deal damage based on their size and the distance they have fallen. Table: Damage from Falling Objects determines the amount of damage dealt by an object based on its size. Note that this assumes that the object is made of dense, heavy material, such as stone. Objects made of lighter materials might deal as little as half the listed damage, subject to GM discretion. For example, a Huge boulder that hits a character deals 6d6 points of damage, whereas a Huge wooden wagon might deal only 3d6 damage. In addition, if an object falls less than 30 feet, it deals half the listed damage. If an object falls more than 150 feet, it deals double the listed damage. Note that a falling object takes the same amount of damage as it deals."
So the 0.7c 1 kg (rest mass) stone deals 4d6 dam, as its small size and has fallen more than 150 ft. :)
But there is a system inconsistency, per falling rules no falling object may under any circumstances deal more than 20d6, but in Golarion when Earthfall happened, the Starstone did more than 20d6 damage to its impact area. So i think per RAI it would be ok to rule that a 0.7c 1 kg stone does more than 4d6 dam. :) This is a good point.
I think that my extreme water pressure system would have the advantage of not contradicting existing rules.
johnlocke90 wrote: Ilja wrote: johnlocke90 wrote: This is a pretty big assumption. Nowhere does it state that the flow rate of water is dependent on the environment. It simply lists a flow rate for the water out of the decanter. What you are suggesting is that I change the flow rate from the listed value. Ultimately it doesn't matter though. Even if I accept your houserules, the water could be shot out of an air bubble or life shell and obtain the same results.
Also, water is considered incompressible for most intents and purposes. Not all. There is research into how water compresses at high and low pressures.
Nowhere do the rules state that the water can be compressed. It outputs 1 gallon of water and that is by RAW 1 gallon of water. To be able to change the volume of that water you need to house rule.
Come on, it's just ridiculous to start a thread like this and then use the sentence "even if I accept your houserules". The decanter would output a gallon of water. After the water is out of the decanter it would compress.
No houserule needed. So show me the rules for compression of liquids in PF. That must've been in some splatbook I missed.
Whale_Cancer wrote: The Starstone used the power of plot to do what it did. And the falling stone/decanter plane use the nearly equally powerful GM common sense, meaning when something is not covered in rules (compression of water, impact speeds vastly beyond usual speeds), the GM decides what he think is most fitting.
And while i am uncertain about average GM decision about pouring water in (most will probably decide it stops), few will decide that a 0.7c 1 kg stone with 9 megatons will do 4d6 dam. (Though i suspect that a vast majority will come up with stupid and irrelevant excuses, why my evil wizards plans should be compromised, e.g. some stupid crusade popping out of nowhere, because one thousands of clerics casting commune daily accidentally asked "any mass destruction event expected in the next year?" got an "yes" for answer and then found out some specifics and got things going.)
So...just as a side note, but talking about Pathfinder playing with physics...What does that make the 'Magic ring' at Riddleport? Some sort of gravity lens? It has been sh9own in game to be able to 'pull' celestial matter into a direction that brings them into the body that is the planet Golarion?
johnlocke90 wrote:
Actually Life Shell will protect the person holding the container from the affects of pressure. And as long as the decanter is being held, it won't be affected by crushing...
When you start using magic in ways it was never intended to, you frequently wind up joining the graves of many wizards who made blithe assumptions because of how spells operate in normal situations.
carn wrote: johnlocke90 wrote:
Corriolis effect is handled by using a demiplane instead of a rotating planet. The problem is not handling it, its knowing about it. The evil guy realizes "He, if i destroy the air in an enclosed adamantium container, put a gate at the bottom, connected it to the top and teleport a stone in it and then a few months later teleport it out, the world will understand how mean i am." So he sets his up in his basement, throws the stone in, but after a few (days?,weeks?, months?) the stone moving at hundreds of kilometers per second will contact the wall, damage it, air is sucked in and small explosion happens, evil guy dead. I would think that the exact orientation of the portals would have just as much an effect, possibly greater. A deviation in the portal positioning would create an ever increasing change in the falls trajectory.
Also, equipment wise, the easiest method for the portals is to use a set of ring gates. It can be detonated either by temporarily dispelling the gates (requiring building the bomb in the desired location or transporting the entire thing as a unit), making them non-functioning or by summoning the upper gate to the desired location.
If I were going to experiment with this, I would use short distances. The ring gates need only be a distance apart greater than the objects length.
I'm trying to imagine how to describe such an apparatus that has been left alone for several hundred years to an adventuring party. Situated at the top of a wizards tower in the middle of a city.
Irontruth wrote: I'm trying to imagine how to describe such an apparatus that has been left alone for several hundred years to an adventuring party. Situated at the top of a wizards tower in the middle of a city. Malefuast, a Wizard of power and renown (Proven by the displays of power with which they reduced their enemies/aggressors/Those who generally disagreed with or other wise challenged them) came before the city council elders with a proposal.
For the 're-use' of some ramshackle sea-side slums...They would build the city a light-house. Using their great arcane power, Malefaust did indeed 'redevelop' the tumbled wooden slum and in there place an amazing edifice of strange, white seeming stone did appear.
At its peak. A great, glinting light was seen to give off strobes and flashes of light. The height and illumination more than enough to keep the harbor safe for sailors many miles out to sea.
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