Hey all. I'm in the process of converting over to the PFRPG system (from a 2nd edition base...), and one of our characters has basically always used a two-bladed sword. So, looking through fighter archetypes, the two-weapon warrior is supposed to be good enough for these guys, but I wanted something a little more unique. So, I create, and thus I present, the double-weapon master.
The archetype borrows a couple of abilities from the TWF archetype (since they are somewhat similar), and borrows and modifies a couple of THF archetype abilities, but I think that its primary abilities are unique enough to differentiate it from either of those two archetypes.
Warriors skilled in the use of double weapons realize that there’s far more to using them than simply flailing around with the dangerous ends toward the enemy. With both hands always on the weapon, these warriors can use their control of these versatile weapons to strike at their foes with great precision and lethality.
Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Ex): At 1st level, the double-weapon master gains proficiency in a single double weapon of his choice, per the Exotic Weapon Proficiency feat. This ability replaces Tower Shield Proficiency.
Fine Control (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a double-weapon master counts his Dexterity score as two points higher for the purpose of qualifying for the Two-Weapon Fighting feat or any feat that has Two-Weapon Fighting as a prerequisite. This ability replaces bravery.
Focused Strike (Ex): At 3rd level, when a double-weapon master wields one end of a double weapon two-handed, he treats the weapon as one size larger for the purposes of damage dice. This ability replaces armor training 1.
Weapon Training (Ex): At 5th level, a double-weapon master gains a +1 bonus on attack and damage rolls with double weapons. The bonus increases by +1 for every four levels beyond 5th. This ability replaces weapon training 1.
Doublestrike (Ex): At 7th level, when a double-weapon master makes a single attack (with the attack action or a charge), he may make an attack with both ends of his double weapon. The normal penalties for attacking with two weapons apply. This ability replaces armor training 2.
Off-hand Strike (Ex): At 9th level, when a double-weapon master wields one end of a double weapon two-handed, he may also make a single off-hand attack with the other end of his double weapon. When using this ability, the double weapon does not count as a light weapon for the purposes of two-weapon fighting. The double-weapon master must have the Two-Weapon Fighting feat to use this ability. This ability replaces weapon training 2.
Equal Opportunity (Ex): At 11th level, when a double-weapon master makes an attack of opportunity, he may attack once with both ends of his double weapon. The normal penalties for attacking with two weapons apply. This ability replaces armor training 3.
Improved Off-hand Strike (Ex): At 13th level, when a double-weapon master wields one end of a double weapon two-handed and uses the off-hand strike ability, he may make a second off-hand attack with the other end of his double weapon, albeit with a -5 penalty. The double-weapon master must have the Improved Two-Weapon Fighting feat to use this ability. This ability replaces weapon training 3.
Power Attack Master (Ex): At 15th level, when using Power Attack while wielding one end of a double weapon two-handed, the bonus damage from Power Attack is doubled (+100%) instead of increased by half (+50%). If using Power Attack while wielding a double weapon using two-weapon fighting (including the off-hand strike ability), the bonus damage from Power Attack is not halved for his off-hand attacks. This ability replaces armor training 4.
Greater Off-hand Strike (Ex): At 17th level, when a double-weapon master wields one end of a double weapon two-handed and uses the off-hand strike ability, he may make a third off-hand attack with the other end of his double weapon, albeit with a -10 penalty. The double-weapon master must have the Greater Two-Weapon Fighting feat to use this ability. This ability replaces weapon training 4.
Weapon Mastery (Ex): A double-weapon master must choose a double weapon.
My take on the archetype abilities:
The EWP replaces a useless (to him) proficiency with one that the archetype needs to actually work.
Fine Control reduces the MAD a little. I wanted something to help out the TWF style in general, but didn't want to go with "+ to hit" (or reducing TWF penalties even further), as that's basically the same as the TWF archetype.
Focused Strike is one of the big reasons I made the archetype. I feel that double weapons are a bit too "TWF ME!", and not enough "more versatile large weapon". I was going to house rule this ability by default, but then decided to just put it here in this archetype. This is kind of like the Overhand Chop and Backswing abilities of the THF archetype, but increase dice over raw Strength mod, which I prefer.
Calling the Weapon Training by that name, instead of getting creative with the naming convention, allows the infamous gloves of dueling to apply correctly. Huzzah.
Double Strike & Equal Opportunity are straight from the TWF archetype, and fit here too. This version of Double Strike is actually superior to the TWF version, since this one works on a charge as well (just like overhand chop).
Off-hand Strike and improvements are my methods of keeping a TWF feel for the archetype without going for attack bonuses (or penalty reductions). The balancing act here is, your double weapon doesn't count as light when doing this. Besides, I've seen enough examples on these forums of the wonderful "greatsword + armor spikes" cheese that... yeah, at least these abilities make an attempt at balance!
Power Attack Master was modified from the THF archetype, with a nice added bonus to make it even more valuable for this archetype.
The breakdown of his options, assuming we're talking about a human with a two-bladed sword:
At 7th level, with a standard attack or charge, the warrior can choose to make a greatsword attack or two “light longsword” attacks.
At 9th level, assuming he has TWF and ITWF, when using full attack, the warrior now has three options: swing twice with a greatsword; swing four times with “light longswords”, all at -2, or swing twice with a greatsword and once with a longsword, all at -4.
At 11th level, assuming he gets GTWF, when using full attack, he has three options: swing three times with a greatsword; swing six times with “light longswords”, all at -2; or swing three times with a greatsword and once with a longsword, all at -4.
At 13th level, when using full attack, he has three options: swing three times with a greatsword; swing six times with “light longswords”, all at -2; or swing three times with a greatsword and twice with a longsword, all at -4.
At 15th level, assuming he has Power Attack, when using full attack, he has three options: swing three times with a greatsword (1:4); swing six times with “light longswords” (all 1:2), all at -2; or swing three times with a greatsword (1:4) and twice with a longsword (1:2), all at -4.
At 16th level, when using full attack, he has three options: swing four times with a greatsword; swing seven times with “light longswords”, all at -2; or swing four times with a greatsword and twice with a longsword, all at -4.
At 17th level, when using full attack, he has three options: swing four times with a greatsword; swing seven times with “light longswords”, all at -2; or swing four times with a greatsword and three times with a longsword, all at -4.
Math testing notes:
I did the testing with a 9th, 13th, and 17th level fighter versus a CR-approprite AC, since those are the levels that increase the effective THF + TWF that the archetype gives. In every test except the 17th level one, a pure TWF option was superior, damage-wise, to other options. Granted, I only factored stuff like Str mods (which were somewhat generous), magic weapons, and weapon training - they had no Weapon Focus or Spec, and no magical items other than the weapon that added to hit or damage.
Maybe it's just me, but while TWF in general is more feat-heavy (if one considers three or four combat feats for fighters heavy... I can see the Dex requirements hurting point-buy characters too), it's damage seems... brutally high, compared to THF options. That said, the archetype's abilities didn't seem to break the damage race wide open.
Now, I"m no Treatmonk or A Man in Black, so I'm not sure how they went about calculating the value of +1 to hit, +1 to damage, and the like for their various builds. For all I know, what I left out does break the archetype wide open...
I spoilered the above commentary so this post wouldn't be a gigantic wall of text... I figured it'd be easier on the eyes.
So, any opinions and critiques on this are more than welcome... (I guess that's why I posted it, right?) Is it too weak, too powerful, and why? Like it, dislike it, ambivalent? Is there wording that is confusing or exploitable? Is it even worth the digital storage space that it takes up? Inquiring minds (at least mine) would like to know.
Thanks for reading!
My thought on Fine Control was instead of a flat +2, for it to scale up at the same rate as bravery.
I would have responded sooner, but it's been a rather busy week.
Tim4488: Thanks for the commentary. Only Doublestrike and Equal Opportunity are directly from the TWW archetype, where PA Master is basically ported (and improved) from the THF archetype. But yea, when I started doing the math on this guy, I was really worried that it'd be too OP to allow, but then straight two-weapon fighting was beating it (and standard two-handed fighting, and the THF archetype) soundly until very high levels, so I figured it was probably OK.
Ciaran Barnes: I had considered doing exactly that, but it seemed to needlessly complicate things for very little overall gain. I figure a TWW (and by extension, a DWM) would be picking up the TWF chain as soon as possible, which would be at 1st, 6th, and 11th level. At those levels, if it scaled like Bravery, it'd give a +1, +2, and +3 to effective Dex, and the bravery +4 and +5 levels (14th and 18th) would have no real effect since he'd already have the feat with the highest Dex requirement (GTWF, at 19).
So it's basically a question of saving another Dex point for GTWF, or keeping the mechanic very clean and simple. I like simple, so I left it as a static bonus.
DMJB83: Thanks for the dot, I respond with a dash. Together, we spell ET, in Morse code. Go teamwork!
So, any opinions from anyone else?
Little gain? A +1 or +2 is a little. +4 or +5 is a strong gain. The dexterity requirements for TWF feats get higher as you go along. What if the fighter doesn't want to invest in dexterity?
Ciaran, it's like I said, by the time the bonus would get to that +4 or +5 level, the fighter has very likely already invested in TWF (Level 1 to access, Dex 15), ITWF (Level 6 to access, Dex 17), and GTWF (Level 11 to access, Dex 19) to maximize his damage output. For the purposes of this discussion, I'm only going to look at GTWF, since it has the highest prerequisite.
Using the ability as I have it written above, we knock two points off of the required Dex for GTWF, and he can take it at 11th level without feeling bad about it later.
Using it as a mirror of bravery, that same warrior could theoretically save three points off Dex for GTWF if he takes it right at 11th level, or four points if he waits until 14th level. Nobody in their right mind would put off taking GTWF until 18th level - doing so would be a horrible choice for their per-round damage. He may want to put it off until 14th level, to save that effective point of Dex, but he'd be going from 11th to 14th level lacking a tertiary off-hand attack if using standard TWF (which, sadly, is his best option for damage until 17th level), which is still a very questionable act given the threat level of baddies he'd be fighting at that level.
That's basically how it boils down. The ability isn't actually giving him raw Dexterity, it's just reducing the requirements for the feats that make him tick. So again, it comes to the question of keeping it simple (a flat -2 to the requirements), or complicating it for the sake of a potential option that would never be used except when creating a new character that starts at 14th level or higher.
As for not wanting to invest in Dexterity, there are plenty of weapon paths that a fighter could choose that don't require high Dex. But, if he wants to use TWF effectively (which also includes using a double weapon effectively), he'll have to invest in that stat. Those are the breaks, as they say, and while the ability somewhat lessens the Dex requirements, it doesn't totally remove them.
Factor also that by the time the character wants to invest in GTWF, he's probably got a belt, which could very well be a Str / Dex belt to help with the TWF prerequisites. Even if not, there's still a world of difference between actually having a 17 or 19 in an ability score.