What Other RPG has APs equal to Paizos?

[doc the grey]

As mentioned above, beyond the mountain's of madness is a treat to anyone who loves horror, CoC, or real world setting games. I knew I was in for a game when I saw that they had options to explain the other REAL WORLD EXPEDITIONS to the Antarctic going on at the same time and let you treat the actual story it's based off of as a player handout! Also escape from innsmouth is just awesome, the amount of action to horror is just too good. Now I just need to find some time to wedge that into my gaming schedule.

[Kthulhu]

Googleshng wrote:

And yeah, the whole AP angle doesn't work so great with games that aren't D&D/Pathfinder since, well, there's no real level progression to build up a mounting threat across.

Meh. Chaosium disproved that long before Paizo even existed.

And I think you're doing pre-published adventures as a whole a disservice to imply that Paizo is the only publisher putting out good ones. To be honest, Paizo isn't even my favorite publisher for the Pathfinder system. They're good, but they are very far away from having a monopoly on quality.

[Wrath]

Who do you rate higher Kthulu. I haven't branched out of Paizo at all for pathfinder stuff.

I'd be interested to hear from anyone who bought the pathfinder version of zeitgeist. So far, that campaign is rocking my world in terms of setting an meta plot. However I'm running it in 4th Ed. Would love to hear a comparison.

[hogarth]

Kthulhu wrote:

Googleshng wrote:

And yeah, the whole AP angle doesn't work so great with games that aren't D&D/Pathfinder since, well, there's no real level progression to build up a mounting threat across.

Meh. Chaosium disproved that long before Paizo even existed.

I somewhat agree with him. Personally, I would probably call Masks of Nyarlathotep a "mega-campaign" (or something) rather than an "adventure path". Why? Because my understanding is that a large portion of it doesn't need to be played in any particular order, which is the "path" part of "adventure path". (Pleas correct me if I'm misremembering.)

[Bluenose]

hogarth wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

Googleshng wrote:

And yeah, the whole AP angle doesn't work so great with games that aren't D&D/Pathfinder since, well, there's no real level progression to build up a mounting threat across.

Meh. Chaosium disproved that long before Paizo even existed.

I somewhat agree with him. Personally, I would probably call Masks of Nyarlathotep a "mega-campaign" (or something) rather than an "adventure path". Why? Because my understanding is that a large portion of it doesn't need to be played in any particular order, which is the "path" part of "adventure path". (Pleas correct me if I'm misremembering.)

Borderlands for Runequest. Seven adventures, taken in sequence. 1982, I think.

Personally I think the idea that an adventure path requires a significant increase in the power of the protagonists and their opposition is more a product of how D&D works as a system than it is part of how an Adventure Path needs to work.

[thejeff]

Bluenose wrote:

hogarth wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

Googleshng wrote:

And yeah, the whole AP angle doesn't work so great with games that aren't D&D/Pathfinder since, well, there's no real level progression to build up a mounting threat across.

Meh. Chaosium disproved that long before Paizo even existed.

I somewhat agree with him. Personally, I would probably call Masks of Nyarlathotep a "mega-campaign" (or something) rather than an "adventure path". Why? Because my understanding is that a large portion of it doesn't need to be played in any particular order, which is the "path" part of "adventure path". (Pleas correct me if I'm misremembering.)

Borderlands for Runequest. Seven adventures, taken in sequence. 1982, I think.

Personally I think the idea that an adventure path requires a significant increase in the power of the protagonists and their opposition is more a product of how D&D works as a system than it is part of how an Adventure Path needs to work.

Yes. If you think of adventure paths as the equivalent of novels, many epic fantasy stories manage to build up a serious mounting threat without anything like the kind of power increase that D&D gives you. Often the power of the opposition does grow, without a corresponding increase for the protagonists. A good part of the plot may involve finding ways to neutralize that advantage, rather than just stalling until you're tough enough to confront it directly.

And not having to do things in a particular order sounds like an advantage to me, even if it's less path-like. :)

[Legendarius]

There was the old Darkstryder campaign for Star Wars D6.

D20 Call of Cthulhu had the Nocturnum campaign book.

[Kthulhu]

Wrath wrote:

Who do you rate higher Kthulu. I haven't branched out of Paizo at all for pathfinder stuff.

Frog God Games. Although to be fair, I prefer the S&W versions of most of their stuff.

hogarth wrote:

Personally, I would probably call Masks of Nyarlathotep a "mega-campaign" (or something) rather than an "adventure path". Why? Because my understanding is that a large portion of it doesn't need to be played in any particular order, which is the "path" part of "adventure path". (Pleas correct me if I'm misremembering.)

Well, how about Horror on the Orient Express? It's definitely on a defined path. You could even accuse it of railroading.

[thejeff]

Kthulhu wrote:

hogarth wrote:

Personally, I would probably call Masks of Nyarlathotep a "mega-campaign" (or something) rather than an "adventure path". Why? Because my understanding is that a large portion of it doesn't need to be played in any particular order, which is the "path" part of "adventure path". (Pleas correct me if I'm misremembering.)

Well, how about Horror on the Orient Express? It's definitely on a defined path. You could even accuse it of railroading.

Ouch.

[Zombieneighbours]

thejeff wrote:

Kthulhu wrote:

hogarth wrote:

Personally, I would probably call Masks of Nyarlathotep a "mega-campaign" (or something) rather than an "adventure path". Why? Because my understanding is that a large portion of it doesn't need to be played in any particular order, which is the "path" part of "adventure path". (Pleas correct me if I'm misremembering.)

Well, how about Horror on the Orient Express? It's definitely on a defined path. You could even accuse it of railroading.

Ouch.

I know, the pun was painful ;)

[P.H. Dungeon]

OP is there a particular genre you are most interested in?

Off the top of my head I can think of several that can be found on pdf form on drivethrurpg.

Shadowrun: the new missions season is very good. The adventures are well done and linked together tracking two separate story lines. They are designed to be played in a single session, but I've ran several and found most need two sessions to play.

They also have some bigger campaign type adventures. I ran the Brainscan campaign and it was pretty epic. There is a series of four linked adventures called Dawn of the Artifacts that I haven't run, but looks decent.

Savage World: this is multi genre rpg and has lots of stuff by a variety of publishers. I've seen a modern, zombie apocalypse style AP for it, but I haven't actually looked at any of the adventures, so I'm not sure if they're any good. I've also seen a lined series of Pulp adventures for the Thrilling Tales series. The storyline is decent, but they need a lot of fleshing out.

Green Ronin: has a series of adventures for Mutants and Masterminds 3E, but they aren't as detailed or good as a pathfinder AP.

For Call of Cthulhu, I'd add Mountains of Madness to the list. This massive hardback mega adventure is the most detailed rpg adventure I've ever set eyes on. The fact that it was even produced still amazes me.

[LazarX]

thejeff wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Not all RPG's are suited for or are even aimed for this kind of approach. It'd be downright silly to construct something like this for a Storyteller game which aims specifically at storytellers who tell their own tales. Most people who GM White Wolf games would rebel at a spoonfed Adventure Path. Adventure Paths are good for wargames who cater to a market that wants things uniform and spelled out.

That's interesting because one of the things that annoyed me about White Wolf games was how much the source books were tied to the overarching plot of their game world. I never played a lot of WW, but it seemed like you if played a campaign and had anything significant happen you'd quickly get off track from what all the important NPCs and factions in the source books were doing. Always annoyed me. Some of the metaplot stuff was interesting, but didn't seem appropriate for a game, since you couldn't predict it to work it into your home game. Shadowrun was much the same way.

APs would have been a perfect way to line up important events in the metaplot with peoples games.

I never saw that as a problem. I used the white wolf material as springboards, not as a confining box. I did not need white wolf's arc and for most of their systems like Mage, Wraith and Changeling, there never really was one. Oveshadowing themes,yes, but that does not an arc make.

[thejeff]

LazarX wrote:

thejeff wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Not all RPG's are suited for or are even aimed for this kind of approach. It'd be downright silly to construct something like this for a Storyteller game which aims specifically at storytellers who tell their own tales. Most people who GM White Wolf games would rebel at a spoonfed Adventure Path. Adventure Paths are good for wargames who cater to a market that wants things uniform and spelled out.

That's interesting because one of the things that annoyed me about White Wolf games was how much the source books were tied to the overarching plot of their game world. I never played a lot of WW, but it seemed like you if played a campaign and had anything significant happen you'd quickly get off track from what all the important NPCs and factions in the source books were doing. Always annoyed me. Some of the metaplot stuff was interesting, but didn't seem appropriate for a game, since you couldn't predict it to work it into your home game. Shadowrun was much the same way.

APs would have been a perfect way to line up important events in the metaplot with peoples games.

I never saw that as a problem. I used the white wolf material as springboards, not as a confining box. I did not need white wolf's arc and for most of their systems like Mage, Wraith and Changeling, there never really was one. Oveshadowing themes,yes, but that does not an arc make.

Which is what most GMs I knew did. It just made a lot of the source books useless. Mostly I never understood the business model. What's the point of building all this cool background material with secret plots and world altering events, but not giving GMs a way to use it, since they'd have no way to know where WW was going with it. It seems to me APs would have been a great way to do that. Published campaigns that tied into the settings metaplot.

[Pual]

I always thought the old D&D module "Night's Dark Terror" was an excellent low level campaign

Although I've not actually played it, the Kingdom and Commonwealth campaign for Clockwork & Chivalry also seems to be pretty good.

[Gambit]

Someone mentioned the original Dragonlance modules but I thought I would add the 3.5 Age of Mortals adventure trilogy to the conversation. A rather compelling romp all over Ansalon that goes from 1-20 and ends with an epic showdown that I wont spoil here. Chock full of familiar characters and legendary magical items, this is a pretty darn fun AP.

The three modules that form the path are Key of Destiny, Spectre of Sorrows, and Price of Courage.

[RangerWickett]

I direct E.N. Publishing's adventure path, ZEITGEIST: The Gears of Revolution. Unfortunately our website is undergoing maintenance now, so I can't share a link to the forum for you to hear from other GMs running it, but the Player's Guide (with setting information) and GM's Guide (with details of the campaign's whole story arc) are available as free downloads here at Paizo:

http://paizo.com/products/btpy8lqx?ZEITGEIST-Adventure-Path-Players-Guide
and
http://paizo.com/products/btpy8lvn?ZEITGEIST-Adventure-Path-Campaign-Guide

We produce it concurrently for Pathfinder and D&D 4th edition, which I suppose technically means it's not a non-PF adventure path. But since it was mentioned, I wanted to chip in with some more information.

[LazarX]

thejeff wrote:

LazarX wrote:

thejeff wrote:

LazarX wrote:

Not all RPG's are suited for or are even aimed for this kind of approach. It'd be downright silly to construct something like this for a Storyteller game which aims specifically at storytellers who tell their own tales. Most people who GM White Wolf games would rebel at a spoonfed Adventure Path. Adventure Paths are good for wargames who cater to a market that wants things uniform and spelled out.

That's interesting because one of the things that annoyed me about White Wolf games was how much the source books were tied to the overarching plot of their game world. I never played a lot of WW, but it seemed like you if played a campaign and had anything significant happen you'd quickly get off track from what all the important NPCs and factions in the source books were doing. Always annoyed me. Some of the metaplot stuff was interesting, but didn't seem appropriate for a game, since you couldn't predict it to work it into your home game. Shadowrun was much the same way.

APs would have been a perfect way to line up important events in the metaplot with peoples games.

I never saw that as a problem. I used the white wolf material as springboards, not as a confining box. I did not need white wolf's arc and for most of their systems like Mage, Wraith and Changeling, there never really was one. Oveshadowing themes,yes, but that does not an arc make.

Which is what most GMs I knew did. It just made a lot of the source books useless. Mostly I never understood the business model. What's the point of building all this cool background material with secret plots and world altering events, but not giving GMs a way to use it, since they'd have no way to know where WW was going with it. It seems to me APs would have been a great way to do that. Published campaigns that tied into the settings metaplot.

No it did not make the sourcebooks useless. Because most of the sourcebooks were background and setting, not plot. Sure there was plot material in there but it was material that was easy to fit in if you wished to just about anything a Storyteller wanted to use. (which is a term I prefer over GM when I'm not running TSR's most famous wargame or variant thereof.) I had no problem using the background material with my own plots. I pretty much made use of about 80 percent of every sourcebook I bought when I ran Storyteller. That still left me plenty of room to do my own thing.

The Storyteller system was not meant to be used with a D20 mindset. The material was never meant to be a confining box, it was essentialy kit that you could use as you choose in building your own sandbox plus examples on how it could be used.

[WampaX]

Other genres/systems not mentioned yet . . .

Champions Battlegrounds for Hero 5ed was pretty well put together.
Also, Sharper than a Serpent's Tooth.

The three parts of the Devil's Tower trilogy for Deadlands was a blast to read, despite not getting a chance to run them.