3rd level Magus looking for Arcana


Advice


3rd level Magus looking for a Arcana for 3rd level.

Magus is strength (18) with a (16) Int. and has no idea what to pick.

Have looked at Arcane Accuracy but want to save the AP for weapon enhancement and spell recall. Average of 2 to 5 combats usually before resting.

Wand Wielder looks nice but not sure what or how to build with it.

Still Magic is looking nice since DM likes monsters with grapple. Just not how sure this would work.

Familiar might be helpful. Might grab a monkey for it's ability to grab and carry stuff back and forth between party members or help dig things out of the pack.

I just don't know which so looking for help/suggestions.

Grand Lodge

Familiars are quite nice. Do you use the Arcane Strike feat? If so you wouldn't be able to use that with arcane Accuracy, so that would be a turn off. The same goes for spell shield, as it using an immediate action.

Besides the three I mentioned I don't find any of the other level 3 arcana to be all that attractive.


Close Range (Ex): The magus can deliver ray spells that feature a ranged touch attack as melee touch spells. He can use a ranged touch attack spell that targets more than one creature (such as scorching ray), but he makes only one melee touch attack to deliver one of these ranged touch effects; additional ranged touch attacks from that spell are wasted and have no effect. These spells can be used with the spellstrike class feature.


Personally I'm a fan of just taking the Black Blade Archetype since none of the really good arcana are availible yet. You get a reliably on level magic weapon & a sentient weapon.

But if it's too late to hop into Blackblade(Which it shouldn't be since your pool should only be getting too big for a black blade next level), the Close Range one above isn't bad. It's useful at least.


At moment I do not have Arcane Strike Feat. It's on the list of Feats I'm interested in getting so another reason to not take the Arcana: Arcane Accuracy.

The first spell I cast in combat is usually Shield. Which makes the Arcana: Spell Shield worthless.

I looked at Close Range and might have grabbed it but got myself access to someone able to make Pearl of Power (1st level).

Familiar, I'm leaning towards and if they can use wands I'll probably go that way. Which probably requires it's own thread...


Does anyone have a suggestion on a Familiar that's able to use wands and how that works?


I agree there is too little AP to make great use of Arcane Accuracy at 3rd. I find myself running low on every adventure day in my encounter-packed adventure path.

I recommend a familiar (pay attention to skill bonuses and steer it to help you out) or spell blending for Touch of Fatigue. Keeping your enemies at a -2 str and dex is really nice for a condition you have a chance to apply every round from there on out. If you take a familiar, make room at level 7 for improved familiar (do not skip this option).

That said, I can't really encourage Spell Blending until later because you're wasting it at 3rd due to the lack of good spells besides ToF. At third the only two good choices are AA (which you don't use till later) or familiar.

I have an elf magus and I am taking the +1/6th magus arcana (skip a level so I get an arcana at 7th for better spell blending choices). I think most of my arcana are spell blending. There's not much you can get that overshadows Spell Blending: Heroism... in fact nothing trumps heroism IMO.

I think spell blending has its best window of use between levels 4 and 11. I think the only spell worth taking singularly is Heroism, for any other spell make sure you're getting it and another useful spell.

That third level arcana debate can also be resolved by just saying "I'm taking the black blade". Having a very high bonus weapon is never a bad thing.

Shadow Lodge

I have found wand wielder to be very nice. I keep a wand of bulls strength on a spring loaded sheath on one hand and a shield wand on the other. When combat starts swift action draw and cast as part of the attack. Great for boss battles. I use it less now at level 12 but its kept me alive for many battles. Wand master is nice if you have a higher int (my guys bot an 18) and want wands of simple stuff like say charm person/hold person. I took Dangerous curiosity for it.


I would advise u get arcane accuracy, it allows u too power attack and still hit.. Take enduring blade later, which makes ur pool enhancement last 1min/lv..


I agree that arcane accuracy is highly overrated. Most take it for power attacking but I find power attack pretty sub-par for a Magus. After all most will be using a one handed weapon and being not full BAB your power attack progression is slow.

Honestly there as so many better uses of AP+Feat+Arcana then power attack. Honestly all the resources freed up by just not buying into "All melee must power attack"

Still at the same time there ware far worse things then power attack+Arcane accuracy. Its not a -bad- option. Just not the must that people make it out to be.


Best arcana are Familiar and Arcane Accuracy for later.

Best Famliars are either Raven for- Flying, talking buddy and doubles the number of perception checks you can make.
Or
The little pterosaur Dino which has flight, +2 Initiative for you and a cool dive bomb attack for delivering touch spells without provoking for entering enemy square.


Another vote for close range -you can be taking that second slash topped off with Ray of Frost or Acid Splash every round in 'normal' fights. And at 3rd level, that additional d3 of energy damage is still worth something.


Close Range seems highly overrated. You can already spam attacks with arcane mark if you really want to (or Brand if you went Hexcrafter).

Your familiar won't be able to wield wands unless you take improved familiar in the future but it can be useful.

Wand Wielder largely depends on whether you can reliably purchase (or get made) wands. If you can it is a great way to save spells and save actions. Don't forget as well that using a wand doesn't provoke

Maneuver Mastery could be something to consider if there is a combat maneuver you plan on specializing in going forward. Pool strike is the start of a chain of arcana so potentially worth considering (turns arcane pool into more off hand elemental damage - highly flexible damage type which can be handy though likely not as good as spell recall)

Arcane redoubt could be nice when you start to face many touch attacks but likely not as good at lower levels.

Don't forget that you can use your 3rd level regular feat to get more magus specific things.
Either Extra Arcane Pool (to add 2 points to your pool) or Extra Arcana to add another magus arcana. Likely feats you will want to consider in the future as more arcana open up (assuming there are arcana you prefer to other feat options)

The arcana to use a metamagic feat once per day can also be interesting as options to have in worst case scenarios (like being grappled/silenced)


Seriphim84 wrote:
I have found wand wielder to be very nice. I keep a wand of bulls strength on a spring loaded sheath on one hand and a shield wand on the other. When combat starts swift action draw and cast as part of the attack. Great for boss battles. I use it less now at level 12 but its kept me alive for many battles. Wand master is nice if you have a higher int (my guys bot an 18) and want wands of simple stuff like say charm person/hold person. I took Dangerous curiosity for it.

Yeah, I used a wand of truestrike with a...wait for it...DWARF MAGUS! worked good for PAs on a Dwarven Waraxe when I just didn't want to miss, 50 charges lasted me quite a while too.


Whats this about spamming arcane mark, explain how this works please, I hear people mention it all the time and makes NO sense to me what they are talking about.


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Conundrum wrote:
Whats this about spamming arcane mark, explain how this works please, I hear people mention it all the time and makes NO sense to me what they are talking about.

"I Spellstrike with Arcane Mark and swing twice."

That's it. You use Arcane Mark just because it's a touch spell you can attack with using Spellstrike. This gives you an extra weapon attack.


How does that let you swing twice?


I have been wrong alot on these boards but I can't see any way to even bend that to make it look possible by the rules. Guess thats what I get for being at an average IQ on a board full of gifted and genius level intelligence, I can only read the rules one of two ways in most cases whereas you folks often seem to be able to draw multiple interpretations from the same rules reading! Oh I wish I were smarter so I could read the same rule 6 different ways!


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

You can use Spell Combat and Spellstrike in the same full-attack action.

Level 2 magus: I use Spell Combat to full attack, getting my normal attack and a spell as an additional attack, both at a -2. Instead of casting the spell normally, I use Spellstrike to cast it through my sword. It is a normal attack now instead of a touch attack, but I get to deal weapon damage if it hits in addition to its normal effect.

The reason to use Arcane Mark is it meets the criteria for Spellstrike (single target touch spell) and is spammable (since you can cast cantrips all day, every day). This does require you to have a free hand... and that's the only real downside.


'Just read the spiel on d20pfsrd, and it seems that the person collecting the FAQ data baited the developer to answer in a way that would support the argument that what you all are doing with this is legal. I can see and read that it doesn't work that way but I simply am not savvy enough of a rules lawyer to spell out why.

Shadow Lodge

I have found that the spell strike/arcane mark combo is over rated. Just get a one handed weapon and two hand power attack with it. If you have a good strength with a similar nagative you can get out alot of damage. 1d8+9 for -1 to hit with you 3rd level magus? yes please!


Follow me! I know the way!

Touch Spells:

Quote:

Touch Spells in Combat

Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) as a free action.

Spell Strike:
Quote:

whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack.

Arcane Mark:
Quote:
Range touch

It's no more complicated than that. Touching is a free action granted for any spell with a range of touch, spellstrike lets you use your weapon to attack and deliver the spell instead of using your hand, arcane mark is a touch spell.


Wow what the heck are you on about? Spell combat lets you cast a spell and attack. Spell strike lets you deliver a torch spell with a free melee attack rather then a touch attack.

These work together and had always been meant to. Not only is there no trickery here but its not that hard to understand.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

Is your issue with the idea of using spell combat and spellstrike together, or the use of the combo in conjunction with arcane mark?


I'm pretty sure he's objecting to the use of arcane mark because he doesn't know that touch spells grant a free attack by RAW


Edit: Since I was Ninja'd

It's pretty clear why it works, cause of the wording on spell strike.

Quote:
At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon (at his highest base attack bonus) as part of casting this spell. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. If the magus makes this attack in concert with spell combat, this melee attack takes all the penalties accrued by spell combat melee attacks.

Is Arcane Mark a touch spell on the Magi's list?

Yes.
As a touch spell, can it be delivered through his melee weapon as a melee attack instead of a touch attack?
Yes.
Can he make a spellstrike in concert with spell combat, at a the same penalty, essentially granting two attacks?
Yes.

Honestly, it's a neat combo but it's completely supported by the RAW. Now, people might say it's "cheese" but is the magus, really doing a whole lot of extra damage with this? I mean, its just a 3/4 BAB class, who's essentially TWFing. Since when has this been broken or overpowered? Cause if it is, then someone needs to inform the Rogues to stop complaining...


I don't really get the Magus fits people have. More or less they work like a TWF SA build. Just replace SA with spell damage.

Scarab Sages

Seriphim84 wrote:
I have found that the spell strike/arcane mark combo is over rated. Just get a one handed weapon and two hand power attack with it. If you have a good strength with a similar nagative you can get out alot of damage. 1d8+9 for -1 to hit with you 3rd level magus? yes please!

That won't work with a dervish dancer, where the off hand has to remain empty.


Conundrum wrote:
'Just read the spiel on d20pfsrd, and it seems that the person collecting the FAQ data baited the developer to answer in a way that would support the argument that what you all are doing with this is legal. I can see and read that it doesn't work that way but I simply am not savvy enough of a rules lawyer to spell out why.

Do you agree that a magus can make a melee attack, cast a damage spell like shocking grasp with spell combat, then deliver it with an extra weapon attack instead of a touch attack through spellstrike? Is the fact that Arcane Mark doesn't do damage or seem like an attack spell what makes you think you can't use it will spell combat/spell strike?

Would you be OK doing spell combat/spell strike with Brand since it does damage? Or do you think that even damage spells like Shocking Grasp cannot be combined with spell strike/spell combat for a weapon attack delivering Shocking Grasp and a normal weapon attack in the same round? If so, what do you think spell strike gives you?

Do you think you can use spell combat to cast a spell, deliver it with a normal touch attack, and then make a normal melee attack in the same round? If not, what does spell combat give you?


Simplified Magus full attack explanation. At least how I understand it.

1) Magus declares a full attack with spell combat.

2) Magus begins to cast a spell, spell must have a duration of 1 standard action or less. If needed Magus should make a concentration check.

3) Magus makes a ‘free’ attack with that spell at -2 to hit. If the spell is a utility spell the spells effect goes off.

4) Magus takes his full attack at -2 to hit.

Spellstrike allows the Magus to make his ‘free’ attack with a weapon, using the weapon bonuses to hit but vs AC and not touch. If this attack misses, it allows the Magus to still deliver the spell with the Magus’s normal attacks.

Which has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
:)

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