Hi,
I'm currently building a lycanthrope NPC and have some questions about the stats and other abilities of lycanthropes. The creature in question is a human natural weresnake (emperor cobra).
Let's assume the base stats (pre-lycanthrope human) to be:
STR 15, DEX 13, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 10, CHA 10
After the template it should be (human form):
STR 15, DEX 13, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 8
The emperor cobra has:
STR 22, DEX 15, CON 18, INT 1, WIS 17, CHA 2
1. What stats does he have in hybrid/animal form?
STR 24, DEX 15, CON 20, INT 12, WIS 17, CHA 8 OR
STR 22, DEX 15, CON 18, INT 12, WIS 17, CHA 8 OR
STR 22, DEX 15, CON 18, INT 12, WIS 12, CHA 8 ?
Creating a Lycanthrope wrote: Ability Scores: +2 Wis, –2 Cha in all forms; +2 Str, +2 Con in hybrid and animal forms. Lycanthropes have enhanced senses but are not fully in control of their emotions and animalistic urges. In addition to these adjustments to the base creature's stats, a lycanthrope's ability scores change when he assumes hybrid or animal form. In human form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are unchanged from the base creature's form. In animal and hybrid form, the lycanthrope's ability scores are the same as the base creature's or the base animal's, whichever ability score is higher. 1.1. Does the +2 STR/CON apply to both (animal, human) scores, or only to the human ones to determine the higher one?
The stats for the werewolf (base: wolf) and wereboar (base: boar + rage) suggest the former, while the werebear (base: grizzly) and weretiger (base: tiger) suggest the later.
1.2. Does this only affect physical ability scores (STR, DEX, CON) or all scores?
I would say only the physical ones, but RAW suggest all scores.
2. What special attacks/abilities does he get in hybrid/animal form?
Creating a Lycanthrope wrote: Special Attacks: A lycanthrope retains all the special attacks, qualities, and abilities of the base creature. In hybrid or animal form it gains the special attacks, qualities, and abilities of the base animal. A lycanthrope also gains low-light vision, scent, and the following: According to this, I would say "all of them" (i.e. the poison bite). Though the change shape ability lists polymorph as the "base spell" which would not grant poison. But when we look at the wererat (disease) and the weretiger (rake) it seems that the quote above overrides the spell's limits.
2.2. Does this include racial skill modifiers and bonus feats?
In the case of an emperor cobra:
Racial Modifiers: +8 Acrobatics, +4 Perception, +4 Stealth.
I would say "No" and none of the stat blocks suggest otherwise.
2.1. How are the DCs calculated?
Again, the wererat suggests that (in contrast to the polymorph magic rules) the DC is according to the "normal rules" (i.e. 10 + 1/2 Total HD + Ability Modifier) and not 15 (10 + spell level of polymorph) + "Casting Ability Modifier"
3. Less rule, more flavor: How would the hybrid form look like?
Creating a Lycanthrope wrote: Change Shape (Su) All lycanthropes have three forms—a humanoid form, an animal form, and a hybrid form. Equipment does not meld with the new form between humanoid and hybrid form, but does between those forms and animal form.[...] This suggests that the hybrid form is more human than animal. Therefore the hybrid form should have arms and legs.
Personally I would tend towards keeping only the arms and meld the legs (and boots etc.) into the snake-tail.
Edit: As a side note, the lycanthropes in the bestiary 2 seem to have a CR of one less than they should have (Challenge Rating: Same as base creature or base animal (whichever is higher) + 1).
Human form
I believe it would be str 17 dex 15 con 16 int 12 Wis 12 cha 8
Animal form
24,15,20,12,17,8
As far as poison is concerned base it off of half HD and constitution
I would also agree with you about the legs
Okay, a few things.
1: You add the bonus to the stats or take the animal stats; whichever is higher. You can reverse engineer these stat changes from nearly every Were from the beastiary, but for example lets look at the Werebearand the Grizzly Bear
The werebear bases are Str 21, Con 19. The humans are: Str 16, Con 13. If you added +2 atop those scores, it's hybrid form would be 23 Str & 21 Con... But instead it's just Str 21 & Con 19. Generally you have to assume earlier books were misprinted and later books are correct
It's poorly written, but you boost your stats before you decide whether the animals stats or the base creatures are higher. If not, just enjoy your boosted stats since they wrote this clause to not make were-rats hindered by the stats of the base form.
So your stats are: STR 22, DEX 15, CON 18, INT 12, WIS 17, CHA 8 OR
1.1 You have to assume that the most recent books ways of doing it correctly, Beastiary 2 & 3, are presumably doing it correctly as where if there are errors the previous books are wrong. The Wereboars are simply wrong by any count.
A Boars stats: Str 17, Con 17. The Barbarians human form: Str 19, Con 18. Yet the Hybrids is Str 23, Con 23. This is just wrong, since the humans are higher. Since the humans are higher, it's be 19+2(hybrid)+4(rage)=25 str. Con would be just 24.
1.2. It affects all of the Stats, mental and physical, since your CR changes to that of the animal or your level(with modifiers). So mind you, your CHA, & Int is typically higher.
2. Yup, gains all of them.
2.2. No, this does not include racial skill modifiers and bonus feats.
2.1. As it's a (Su), or supernatural affect, go with the 10 + 1/2 Total HD + Ability Modifier(con)
3. Hyrid typically keeps it's legs and arms, not changing it's speed(it specifically says it uses the base creatures speed). You can flavor it otherwise; but keep in mind that your speed doesn't change mechanically.
As for your side note, the CR bit is correct. CR is the base animals/creatures + 1... But since these are creatures with just class hit die, it's -1 cr. Which just cancels out the +1.
Also, good thing this is an NPC, cause @ lvl 1 this character would be a CR5 lol.
Darth Grall wrote: Okay, a few things.
1: You add the bonus to the stats or take the animal stats; whichever is higher. You can reverse engineer these stat changes from nearly every Were from the beastiary, but for example lets look at the Werebearand the Grizzly Bear
The werebear bases are Str 21, Con 19. The humans are: Str 16, Con 13. If you added +2 atop those scores, it's hybrid form would be 23 Str & 21 Con... But instead it's just Str 21 & Con 19. Generally you have to assume earlier books were misprinted and later books are correct
It's poorly written, but you boost your stats before you decide whether the animals stats or the base creatures are higher. If not, just enjoy your boosted stats since they wrote this clause to not make were-rats hindered by the stats of the base form.
So your stats are: STR 22, DEX 15, CON 18, INT 12, WIS 17, CHA 8 OR
1.1 You have to assume that the most recent books ways of doing it correctly, Beastiary 2 & 3, are presumably doing it correctly as where if there are errors the previous books are wrong. The Wereboars are simply wrong by any count.
A Boars stats: Str 17, Con 17. The Barbarians human form: Str 19, Con 18. Yet the Hybrids is Str 23, Con 23. This is just wrong, since the humans are higher. Since the humans are higher, it's be 19+2(hybrid)+4(rage)=25 str. Con would be just 24.
...
That's what I thought, to use the more recent books. Though there are no lycanthropes in the B3, and the B2's contradict each other.
The wereboar is "correct", as both stat blocks (human and hybrid) assume that the NPC is raging:
Human: Str 19 (15+4), Dex 13, Con 18 (14+4), Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
Hybrid: Str 23 (17+2+4), Dex 13, Con 23 (17+2+4), Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 8
The only thing that seems to be going for the "+2 only to human stats" is that there are two examples (werebear, weretiger) vs. one (wereboar) in the B2. The first bestiary uses the rule "+2 to human/animal" for the werewolf (wererat cannot be classified as the human stats are better than the animal ones).
About the CR:
I always thought you look at the base creature/animal as two seperate instances for choosing the higher CR.
Example: Werebear
Human Ranger 4 -> CR 3
Grizzly Bear -> CR 4
So the Human natural werebear ranger 4 should be CR 5 (4+1).
There's only one major problem with a werecobra.
Unlike that of a wolf, the major issue with a cobra bite is poison... one of the most deadly poisons on the planet. The full moon is rarely an issue with cobra bite victims since they tend to die within minutes.
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