Starting Bonded Item Limitations?


Rules Questions


I was relooking at the bonded item arcane bond for the wizard, and I noticed that there was no specific limitation given on what type of staff, wand, amulet, ring, or weapon the bonded item can be, aside from Masterwork and that the weapon can't be of any special materials. I imagine it can't be just any magical staff, ring, wand, or amulet, but even the lowest-priced staves, rings, and amulets are well out of price range for starting characters (even cantrip wands are more than any normal starting wealth, but not by much). So how is this supposed to work? I know the item is free but are there any guidelines about what kind of thing it is?

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The Golux wrote:
I was relooking at the bonded item arcane bond for the wizard, and I noticed that there was no specific limitation given on what type of staff, wand, amulet, ring, or weapon the bonded item can be, aside from Masterwork and that the weapon can't be of any special materials. I imagine it can't be just any magical staff, ring, wand, or amulet, but even the lowest-priced staves, rings, and amulets are well out of price range for starting characters (even cantrip wands are more than any normal starting wealth, but not by much). So how is this supposed to work?

The idea there is that if you say "My bonded item is a wand" then you start play with a masterwork wand, which is essentially just a well-crafted short stick. It has no magical properties OTHER than being your bonded item until you can afford to enchant it, at which point you are treated as if you have the Craft Wand feat and are able to turn it into a magic wand. Same thing for staves, amulets, and rings. The "masterwork" part really only affects weapons at the start of the game, since it means you don't have to spend 300 gold to make your bonded weapon masterwork before you start enchanting it.

Scarab Sages

cartmanbeck wrote:

The idea there is that if you say "My bonded item is a wand" then you start play with a masterwork wand, which is essentially just a well-crafted short stick. It has no magical properties OTHER than being your bonded item until you can afford to enchant it, at which point you are treated as if you have the Craft Wand feat and are able to turn it into a magic wand. Same thing for staves, amulets, and rings. The "masterwork" part really only affects weapons at the start of the game, since it means you don't have to spend 300 gold to make your bonded weapon masterwork before you start enchanting it.

This is something I was just wondering about, actually: In addition to a weapon, your bonded item can also be a staff, wand, ring, or amulet. What kinds of enchantments can or can't you put on these non-weapon items? If my bonded item was a staff (as you say, just an ornate walking stick to start with), could I only make it function as a staff of a variety that presently exists (of which even the cheapest is 7,200 gp, and that one's designed for divine magicians), or could I potentially create, say, my very own Staff of the Diabolical Opthalmologist that can cast infernal healing, keen senses, and scorching ray at CL 3rd? If I had a bonded amulet, could I potentially make it the Aballonian Amulet (see Distant Worlds) that gives the wearer fire resistance 10, +1 natural armor, and a +5 competence bonus to Knowledge (Engineering) checks?

Here's a me-specific application of this line of questioning: I have a Wayang Illusionist of the Shadowcaster archetype. I chose that archetype partly because I felt like the Arcane Bond, whether familiar or item, was too much of a restriction and/or liability - HOWEVER, given that he keeps a non-negotiable deathgrip on his Shadow Stencils, I might feel differently if I could bond with and summarily enchant those - they ARE shaped rather like quirky, metal wands or staves, after all.


Although you can craft your bonded item without the crafting feat, you still have to meet the feat level requirement, which is 11th for Craft Staff. You would also have to pay the normal crafting cost.

Scarab Sages

Can anyone answer my questions?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
Can anyone answer my questions?

Yes, your GM.

You should be able to make any staff you could with the craft staff feat. So you could pick the spells, charges requirements, and caster level (still with a minimum of 8 and a max of your caster level).

As a GM I'd let you consider your Shadow Stencils your bonded item. I'd be less likely to say you could enchant them as a staff or wand. If you want a staff or wand choose that. I might let you attach the Shadow Stencil ability to staff for a significant +gp cost but certainly not for free.


I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
cartmanbeck wrote:

The idea there is that if you say "My bonded item is a wand" then you start play with a masterwork wand, which is essentially just a well-crafted short stick. It has no magical properties OTHER than being your bonded item until you can afford to enchant it, at which point you are treated as if you have the Craft Wand feat and are able to turn it into a magic wand. Same thing for staves, amulets, and rings. The "masterwork" part really only affects weapons at the start of the game, since it means you don't have to spend 300 gold to make your bonded weapon masterwork before you start enchanting it.

This is something I was just wondering about, actually: In addition to a weapon, your bonded item can also be a staff, wand, ring, or amulet. What kinds of enchantments can or can't you put on these non-weapon items? If my bonded item was a staff (as you say, just an ornate walking stick to start with), could I only make it function as a staff of a variety that presently exists (of which even the cheapest is 7,200 gp, and that one's designed for divine magicians), or could I potentially create, say, my very own Staff of the Diabolical Opthalmologist that can cast infernal healing, keen senses, and scorching ray at CL 3rd? If I had a bonded amulet, could I potentially make it the Aballonian Amulet (see Distant Worlds) that gives the wearer fire resistance 10, +1 natural armor, and a +5 competence bonus to Knowledge (Engineering) checks?

Here's a me-specific application of this line of questioning: I have a Wayang Illusionist of the Shadowcaster archetype. I chose that archetype partly because I felt like the Arcane Bond, whether familiar or item, was too much of a restriction and/or liability - HOWEVER, given that he keeps a non-negotiable deathgrip on his...

There's no reason an arcane bond couldn't be crafted into a custom magic item or specific magic item. So long as the DM allows it (which, imho, he should at least allow any item in the book).

However, note that Staves have a minimum caster level of 8. And for any magic item crafting of the arcane bond, you need to be at least the minimum level to take the relevant feat (though you don't need the feat itself).

Scarab Sages

You're both saying something to the effect of "yes, with DM approval" - but what if I'm talking about an Organized Play character?


From what I understand there's no crafting in PFS. So you'd have to just stick with making items you find or buy into your bonded item. You can switch your bonded item to a new item, so this isn't a problem.

If you mean something other than PFS, then it depends on whatever rules they have.

Scarab Sages

Drachasor wrote:
From what I understand there's no crafting in PFS.

There are at least two exceptions to that rule: One is that Alchemists (and coming soon, Investigators) are allowed to craft alchemical products and poisons - the other is that Wizards and anyone else with an Arcane Bond item may upgrade their item per normal rules. The question is, what do the normal rules allow us to do with this?


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Lost Omens, Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
You're both saying something to the effect of "yes, with DM approval" - but what if I'm talking about an Organized Play character?

For PFS, from what I recall you can actually craft your bonded item, you should be able to craft your staff (at 11th level). You should be able to make all the spells selections/charge costs so longs as its legal.

You'll not be able to use the Shadow Stencils as a bonded item, because its not one of the listed objects.


Another question, could a wizard bonded item be a symbiont?
they count as a intelligent magic item…so it is possible or a need to acquired one as familiar?

Liberty's Edge

Lucas M Santos wrote:

Another question, could a wizard bonded item be a symbiont?

they count as a intelligent magic item…so it is possible or a need to acquired one as familiar?

Plant symbiont

This symbiont or something different?

The stuff I have found with a rapid search is all third party, so a good slice of the forum-goers (me included) don't know of what you are speaking.

The symbiont I linked is a creature, so you can't use magic items creation feats on it.
And it isn't a bonded item.

D20PFSRD wrote:

Plant symbionts cannot be created in conjunction with magic item creation feats.

...
Plant symbionts are always creatures of the plant type with the plant symbiont subtype.


Quote:
Objects that are the subject of an arcane bond must fall into one of the following categories: amulet, ring, staff, wand, or weapon.

I'm going to say it's a hard no.


Since this was already Necroed, I won't feel bad about asking this.

If a player had a way to wield large weapons-i.e. 3rd level Titan Mauler Barbarian-Could he/she gain a large-sized weapon when gaining their bonded item when taking a level dip into wizard?


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VoodooMonkey wrote:

Since this was already Necroed, I won't feel bad about asking this.

If a player had a way to wield large weapons-i.e. 3rd level Titan Mauler Barbarian-Could he/she gain a large-sized weapon when gaining their bonded item when taking a level dip into wizard?

The answer to that largely depends on your DM... some DMs will require you to select a mundane item of no intrinsic value if dipping into Wizard after level 1, unless you bond to an item you already own. Others who don’t mind giving out the free item mid game, might be inclined to restrict you to appropriately sized items for your freebie, treating it as if you had taking Wizard at 1st level... but there do exist DMs out there that would allow what you ask with no issue... there is no solid ruling on the subject, so it is entirely up to your DMs discretion...


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I would let a Tiefling with Oversized Limbs do it without any Bardarian/Fighter levels... honestly, the ability doesn't say it has to be a weapon of your size, so anyone can choose any size weapon... who cares as long as they are willing to eat the penalties associated with it?


Do you gain a bonded item when you don't take it at level 1? Wouldn't you have to make it from scratch as it's no longer "a part of your starting gear"? Or do gunslingers and wizards get free expensive weapons that fall from the sky when they level up?


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Definitely this:

"...free expensive weapons that fall from the sky when they level up..."


Quote:
Wizards who select a bonded object begin play with one at no cost.
Quote:
A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from his opposed schools, if any; see Arcane Schools) plus three 1st-level spells of his choice.

i don’t think they should get a free spellbook either if they don’t start from level 1; they should start with a yellow legal pad and have to research to get their cantrips.


That would better represent the years of research that went into become a wizard in the first place for their first level as opposed to suddenly becoming one at level 2.


Nah, when you take a level in Wizard, your emerging magical abilities make'd never seen before, and within is a spellbook and an item that you're so happy to find that you never want to part with it again.

Unless you're one of those weirdo Wizards with a familiar. Those creatures are like a stray cat that likes you and drops a half-dead mouse in your lap, only for familiars it's a slobbered on spellbook that came from gods-know-where.

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