How come no +1 shovel of Zombie bane? or +2 mug of dwarven slaying?

[Azaelas Fayth]

Hmm, Interesting idea Ashiel. It does make sense... Though it is the same price as a Club so...

[Nosforontu]

mrofmist wrote:

Just like the longbow revolutionized markmanship, but it wasn't the norm, so people never made it. The shortbow was the norm, it didn't occur to them to make something outside of that.

Long Bow has some advantages over the short bow but it took significantly longer to train people on it. That is going to be a factor especially if you are using levy style troops that you are not investing large training times in. This becomes doubly important if you don't want your levies to become to comfortable with higher quality military weapons. Pathfinder/D&D is simply not quite detailed enough of a game system to really get at the trade offs between choose weapon x or y in a lot of cases especially when we are talking about very small scale combats compared to mass combat.

The English I believe for example had a saying "If you wish to train a Longbow Man start with his Grandfather". Implying a greater learning curve for Longbow man and a larger infrastructure/culture investment by the state to upgrade to the better weapon.

mrofmist wrote:

D20 has become too optimized,...

Only because that gives your character his best bet at survival (very few stories in Pathfinder get better after the TPK events), and that a character has to survive between 80-200 fights to get to 20th level. That is a lot of meaningful fights to get into without learning what you are good at or what works in a fight.

[Ashiel]

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Hmm, Interesting idea Ashiel. It does make sense... Though it is the same price as a Club so...

It's true that it probably won't be noticeably better than a more suitable weapon. That is the price you pay for wanting to kill someone with your favorite beermug rather than a sword. On the flip side, I could see some very fun enhancements being put on such items and getting % reductions for flavor at GM discretion.

For example, a vampiric beer mug that filled itself with life giving liquid each time it hit an enemy.

[Timothy Hanson]

mrofmist wrote:

My 2 cents. Why aren't there greatswords of digging or +2 vorpal forks? Because this is a story based roleplaying game. Just an optimization fest. NPC's and in-game people don't think of their character sheets when making gear.

Just like the longbow revolutionized markmanship, but it wasn't the norm, so people never made it. The shortbow was the norm, it didn't occur to them to make something outside of that.

D20 has become too optimized, people have to have high dpr, have to have gear that sync's perfectly with their char sheets.

My group does none of this and we still tackle CR's 3-4 higher than our lvl because we play intelligently. We use the environment, we use teamwork. That's how it's done. Not by giving the courtesan rogue the +2 vorpal fork, a high bluff and sleight of hand, and improved crit (fork.)

You can do that, and sure it's neat, but it serves such a limited purpose. So yes, it's 300g cheaper, yes it's more optimized for the same purpose as a dagger. You guys remember that you're roleplaying a character that doesn't know all of this right? At least not like you do.

In what universe is spending money on a Greatsword of Digging optimizing? These seems like the complete opposite of optimizing to me. The only reason to make silly weapons is to add to the roleplaying aspects of the character. No one in their right mind would go through all the trouble of making a vorpral fork because they think it would make them a better killing machine. They would just use the weapons in the book, as those are much better in combat situations then improvised weapons.

Also having gear does not limit your ability to use teamwork and playing intelligently. In fact I would consider buying the best gear for your buck a very intelligent thing to do. Not saying you need it, or there is no place for low magic games, but using it does not make you any worse at gaming or roleplaying.

[Azaelas Fayth]

Hmm, I want a Pickaxe that can dig a 10x10x10 foot hole each time it hits stone, dirt, etc.

[Orthos]

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

Hmm, I want a Pickaxe that can dig a 10x10x10 foot hole each time it hits stone, dirt, etc.

So... casts disintegrate on-hit?

[Azaelas Fayth]

That would work... Though I was thinking of requiring Pit/Expedious Excavation(?) for it...

[Lobolusk]

I was thinking more of an assassin who gets his dwarven target drunk. and is searched at the door for weapons. all he has is his favorite mug. he gets the target drunk then strikes until the target is dead.

[Orthos]

Azaelas Fayth wrote:

That would work... Though I was thinking of requiring Pit/Expedious Excavation(?) for it...

Then the pit's only temporary, though.

[Azaelas Fayth]

@Lobolusk: I love that concept...

@Orthos: Then so would most other Wondrous Items' effects. Though Disintegrate probably fit better.