About to start a campaign with some friends who live nearby and the campaign will most likely (95+% chance) be really long lasting. Gonna have the PCs chasing an aspiring demigod through time. He is hunting down the Swords of Sin to use to grant him power (not just as weapons but as objects of power) to ultimately awaken and then control Kazavon.
I plan to include a few artifacts on the players side.
First:
The Harrow Deck of Many Things. What level would be best to give it to the PCs to use where it doesn't make them OP but it's effects aren't negligible either? I remember back in 3.X when i first started playing having some great times with the Deck of Many things and want to try to bring that fun over to this campaign. Would I be better off using a Deck of Many Things instead? And as a tie-in, does the official PF Harrow Deck have all the cards listed under the Harrow Deck of Many Things? I would be inclined to think so but wanna make sure before I spent money on it.
Next:
The Orbs of Dragonkind seem really useful for their effects but 25 will save seems really...easy against almost any dragon that would be useful for them to have controlled. Is there some reason that I'm just not noticing for the low will save? Aside from having a level 20 dragon enslaved, which is somewhat balanced by drawing the ire/hatred of every other dragon in existence. I could see them using it safely against a level 15ish dragon under special circumstances where they don't incur the hatred penalty, but would that be 'too good'?
Lastly:
As a kind of two part question, I also had been thinking about having my players eventually turn around and use the Relics of Kazavon. But I seem to be blanking on if there is a rule/mechanism for altering a L sized artifact for a M sized character. After that, I would be planning a paradox-type setting where they have some of the artifacts from the past while Kazavon has already been resurrected in the present. Essentially, the human villain would be fought as a 'final boss' while his Necromancer assistant prepares the resurrection ritual. But then, when Kazavon is revived, I'm somewhat at a loss as to what to do for his stats.
I want him to really scream evil demigod dragon at the brink of actually becoming a god. But there aren't any rules (that I've found) for beings who are larger than the standard 8x8 colossus. Additionally, players will (after an epic event) be able to take levels in a 2nd class as a substitute for no epic-levels. Now I would simply take a great wyrm blue dragon, slap on the ravener template (Kazavon is noted as being close to a Ravener Blue Great Wyrm) and then maybe toss in a Giant and Advanced, but since I've rarely worked with epic levels, let alone respeccing a monster to be an epic level boss, I'm not sure of the best way to go about this.
I know the campaign won't reach that level in a fairly long time (at least a few months after start) but I like to make sure my endgame can work so that I can change the end, and middle/set-up if I need to.
Edit: I should probably note that I'm not definitely going with all these plans. Depending on how the players...well...play and how much 'epic' they want (1 player loves the ascension into gods at the end after a mind-blowing insane adventure while another generally likes more 'simple' plots which end at 20 or soon after). If the campaign takes a lesser turn, I would cut the human villain, time travel and swords of sin in favor of building a campaign just around those later, focusing on Kazavon in this one (again, it depends on what the party seems to gravitate towards. Last time (I was a player then) they loved having gained the ability to warp space slightly, then time and eventually massive wish-sized warps where they recreated a destroyed universe).
I'm not sure if you're aware, but the Relics of Kazavon play a major plot point in the Curse of the Crimson Throne adventure path. The Seven Swords are also a major plot point in the Seven Swords of Sin 3.5 module, and one of the swords are also an element in the Rise of the Runelords adventure path.
You might want to give all of those a read first. The Crown of Fangs from the Curse of the Crimson Throne adventure path, especially, will be of help to you.
Also, you seem intent on using lots of Artifacts in your game, to the point that they're almost given out like candy. I would advise not to do this as Artifacts of any sort are powerful items that can sway the way a game works. Not to mention, many artifacts are the interest of very powerful parties.
The Relics of Kazavon, for example, would be sought after by nearly ever memeber of the church of Zon-Kuthon and his minions.
The Seven Swords would/could be sought after by many different and varied enemies who may with to use the power themselves, or use them to awaken the Runelords.
The Orbs of Dragonkind would invoke the wrath of all dragons, both good and evil. If it became known who exactly had one, you might see hordes of Dragons working together to destroy the Party, to recover and destroy that Orb.
You may also want to hold off on starting your game until the Mythic Playtest comes out. Mythic Rules will be Paizo's answer to the desire for an Epic Rules system. It's going to be very different though, than the D&D Epic Rules.
My best advice for you, is to do as much research as possible into all the different things you want to incorporate, and then, narrow it down to what you determine is essential to the story. Everything else, is merely optional after that.
I say that, so that you don't get bogged down with the PCs being able to do too much with what they have. Keep in mind, the range for Demigods is CR 26 to CR 35, so a creature that aspires to ascend to at least Demigod status, should be between CR 20 and CR 25.
CR 20 to CR 25 can still be fought by characters at 20th level, you don't need an advanced system to do that.
Don't worry, I can't stand *too many* artifacts. Players would only ever get 1 or 2 orbs (under a special circumstance as in weaken/stop Kazavon) and maybe 1 or 2 of the relics. Well, that plus I would really like to see a DoMT (cause I remember how fun it was).
I actually asked one of my previous players, his gf and his friend how they felt on the issue. All three leaned towards 'I want lots of epic'. To balance that (if I don't split it up into two campaigns), I would have the players work towards undoing the artifact acquisition on the part of the enemy, weakening him and leading to Kazavons total freedom.
Also, kinda low on free funds (college student) so is there anywhere I could get any sort of summary of example of those adventure paths? And oh my greater gods, they're working on an epic system!?
Obligatory fangasm 'splosion bout what do we know that's different/when are they releasing a playtest?
The playtest should be out in a 10 days, by my guess, but it could take up to another month.
Mythic Rules (the Epic replacement) will be very different from Epic Rules. For one thing, it's not experienced based, and does not increase your levels. Instead, it functions more like templates.
Mythic Rules can be incorporated as soon as level 1. You can be a 1st level character, while also being a 1st tier Mythic creature. There are a total of 10 Mythic Tiers, and they can only be gained by a GM assigning them. They are typically gained by completing deeds the GM decides is suitably 'legendary' enough to add to your characters overall legend. An example of a Mythic Deed (an end game one of course) is: Kill all the Dragons.
Now, Mythic Tiers won't give you levels; no increase in BAB, no additional spell levels, no class advancement. Instead, they give you, relatively, unique special abilities. For instance, you will be able to take two turns in one round. Or cast two spells in one turn. Or cast spells you don't know. Or remove the penalties on your iterative attacks (+6/+1 would become +6/+6). Apply spontaneously apply metamagic effects to your spells, without increasing the level of the spell or casting time.
Here's a link to a post of mine that links to more information about Mythic Rules.
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Unfortunately, the Adventure Paths are not Open License, at least the stories arent. The Game rules are, however. So if you want to read the stories for information, you're going to have to get a hold of a copy of the Adventure Paths. Digital copies are the cheapest ones,and if you lose them, you can always download them again (if you buy from a place like Paizo.com).
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Are you aware of the Artifacts and Legends book Paizo published? It gives a breakdown of many of the artifacts that mentioned in the various books. I know it includes the Orbs, the Harrow Deck, the Seven Swords, the Relics, and it also has a Staff that is used for traveling through time.
Basically, it has the stats for each item, and the history of the items as well. Most of the information for the Relics, is pulled straight from the Adventure Path. Same too with the Swords, however, much of the history (and even the stats) of the Swords is brand new, as, up until this book came out, only two of the swords had any stats, and only one of them had any history to it.
If you plan on going through with this campaign, Artifacts and Legends will be a must for you. Also, I recommend Ultimate Equipment as it has a nice section on Artifacts as well.
Unlike the Adventure Paths or modules, Artifacts and Legends and Ultimate Equipment are both OGL, so you will be able to find the information on the PFSRD eventually, if it isn't already.
Mythic sounds like how I awarded epic levels and pretty much how I prefer they work to begin with :D
Yeah, I spent the last of my $ on the Artifact book. Gave some nice info for the swords and Relics and was what helped me tie the ideas together (99% of my ideas.end up in a notebook to be reworked/put together).
But the dragon orbs still seem really lacking to me. I dunno, maybe I just can't see past the 25 will save.
And the harrow deck was just asking about an opinion really on when would be best so players aren't OP and the rewards aren't weak.
Though I still don't see any rules on resizing artifact armor (L artifact armor for a M char)
Mythic sounds like how I awarded epic levels and pretty much how I prefer they work to begin with :D
Yeah, I spent the last of my $ on the Artifact book. Gave some nice info for the swords and Relics and was what helped me tie the ideas together (99% of my ideas.end up in a notebook to be reworked/put together).
But the dragon orbs still seem really lacking to me. I dunno, maybe I just can't see past the 25 will save.
And the harrow deck was just asking about an opinion really on when would be best so players aren't OP and the rewards aren't weak.
Though I still don't see any rules on resizing artifact armor (L artifact armor for a M char)
What artifact are you looking at? Considering the power that artifacts contain, there really isn't anything wrong with allowing artifacts to fit any creature as long as they are the same type (even if they have different sub-types).
So a Giant wearing, say, the Armor of Skulls, could be slain, and the armor shrinks or expands to fit the next wearer. I'm assuming, of course, the Armor of Skulls is what you were referring to. Something to think about when it comes to the armor, Kazavon was a Colossal dragon. Think about how big his skull actually must be.
If you dislike the item expanding or shrinking to fit anyone, consider allowing it to expand or shrink to fit a creature within one size category. Or, consider a custom item that enlarges people to allow them to fit the armor. Or an item that shrinks the armor to fit another creature. Using shrink item on the armor to shrink it down to medium size isn't unreasonable in my book. Maybe attach a Permanency spell, or even craft an item that is designed, specifically, to make armor and weapons fit the bearer.
[Edit] On the subject of the low will saves, one thing you have to remember, is that, as a rule, all magical items that are crafted, are crafted with the minimum DCs needed to cast that spell.
Per the rules, if you are a Wizard with a 46 Intelligenct (a +18 modifier), and you cast a fireball (a 3rd level spell) your Reflex save DC would be 21. However, if you crafted a Scroll of Fireball, it's save DC would be 14. Why? Because the minimum ability score to cast a Fireball spell is 13, and the spell level is 3rd. Since 13 is only a +1 modifier, and a 3rd level spell, the save DC is 14.
So an Orb of Dragonkind has a Will Save DC of 25, because the spell used is Dominate Monster which is normally, a 9th level spell (f*** off Summoners). 9th level spells have a minimum ability score 19, a + 4 modifier. As we can see, the DC is actually higher, than the minimum amount, probably a built in bonus against dragons.
The Orbs weren't really meant to be controlling the most powerful of all dragons of their kind. Reliably controlling a Colossal dragon is a bit much for even Artifact level powers.
However, if your goal is to allow the PCs to control Kazavon, perhaps as a method of weakening him, I'd suggest some sort of ritual to attune a Blue Orb to Kazavon specifically, giving him a penalty to his saving throws vs that specific Orb.