Can aid another crit and proc butterfly sting?
Aid another is normally a standard action attack vs AC 10. And butterfly sting lets you ignore your critical hits and the next hit auto crits.
Aid Another: In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
Attack: Making an attack is a standard action.
Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a “threat,” meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit...
...Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires no attack roll cannot score a critical hit. If a spell causes ability damage or drain (see Special Abilities), the damage or drain is doubled on a critical hit.
Butterfly's Sting: When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn. Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical.
-----
During a combat round you are allowed 1 standard action. Aid Another is a standard action that you may do while in combat. Attacking is also a standard action that you may do during combat. Within the description of how Critical Hits work it is limited to being a direct result of an attack roll. This means that you are unable to critically hit on any standard action in combat that does not include an attack roll. Aid Another is assisting a future attack roll or armor class via distraction or interference, and does not contain an attack roll made against your opponents AC (but a static AC 10 instead).
I hope this helps answer the question. I am not an expert on the Pathfinder rules, and so if I am misguided in my assessment of these rules I am sure I will be corrected. Have a great day!
|
Can aid another crit and proc butterfly sting?
Aid another is normally a standard action attack vs AC 10. And butterfly sting lets you ignore your critical hits and the next hit auto crits.
Aid Another: In melee combat, you can help a friend attack or defend by distracting or interfering with an opponent. If you're in position to make a melee attack on an opponent that is engaging a friend in melee combat, you can attempt to aid your friend as a standard action. You make an attack roll against AC 10. If you succeed, your friend gains either a +2 bonus on his next attack roll against that opponent or a +2 bonus to AC against that opponent's next attack (your choice), as long as that attack comes before the beginning of your next turn. Multiple characters can aid the same friend, and similar bonuses stack.
Attack: Making an attack is a standard action.
Critical Hits: When you make an attack roll and get a natural 20 (the d20 shows 20), you hit regardless of your target's Armor Class, and you have scored a “threat,” meaning the hit might be a critical hit (or “crit”). To find out if it's a critical hit, you immediately make an attempt to “confirm” the critical hit—another attack roll with all the same modifiers as the attack roll you just made. If the confirmation roll also results in a hit against the target's AC, your original hit is a critical hit. (The critical roll just needs to hit to give you a crit, it doesn't need to come up 20 again.) If the confirmation roll is a miss, then your hit is just a regular hit...
...Spells and Critical Hits: A spell that requires an attack roll can score a critical hit. A spell attack that requires no attack roll cannot score a critical hit. If a spell causes ability damage or drain (see Special Abilities), the damage or drain is doubled on a critical hit.
Butterfly's Sting: When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn. Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical.
It looks to me like Wogan ignored the bolded rules and only saw the italics. I was just wondering this same thing... Anyone else care to weigh in on the topic?
I guess I'd allow aid another to crit with 20x2 and thus it could proc butterfly sting.
It's most likely a houserule but aid another in combat is weak enough to allow it.
Aid another is an attack roll. So it can potentially crit. Not every attack deals damage and actually benefits from scoring a critical hit, but any attack has the ability to critical hit just as it has the possibility of critically missing.
So a crit w/ aid another should trigger Butterfly Sting just fine.
|
I disagree and would not allow it.
Butterfly's Sting: When you confirm a critical hit against a creature, you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally who hits the creature with a melee attack before the start of your next turn. Your attack only deals normal damage, and the next ally automatically confirms the hit as a critical.
Please tell me what effect occurs when you critically hit with an aid another...there is none. If there is no effect to forgoe, why should you gain the benefit.
Well, strictly speaking, the effect is "nothing happens." Which is still an effect just as much as zero is a number / measure of quantity.
You should gain the benefit because, like all attacks, you have a 5% hard-coded chance of failure and the crit is supposed to counter-balance that. Just by being an attack, it has the potential to critically hit. It's just that critical hits for non-damaging effects seldom give any benefit. But they can. Would you deny a Qinggong Monk using Ki Leech who confirms a critical hit with a trip attempt from siphoning ki? The spells does not require you to do damage, it merely requires that you score a critical hit (or reduce them to 0 or lower hp).
|
|
Hey Stream,
Well, strictly speaking, the effect is "nothing happens." Which is still an effect just as much as zero is a number / measure of quantity.
You are right; zero is a measure of quantity; but in this case, we are not talking about 0 effects, we are talking about an effect that never existed. These are not the same concepts. The rule states that you can choose to forgo the effect of the critical hit and grant a critical hit to the next ally; if the effect does not exist, the player cannot forgo it to give the benefit to another.
As far as game balance, I think it is likely that the writers wanted to trade one effect for another. I understand where you are coming from with your interpretation, but I can't help but feel like you are doing an end run to gain something for nothing.
You should gain the benefit because, like all attacks, you have a 5% hard-coded chance of failure and the crit is supposed to counter-balance that. Just by being an attack, it has the potential to critically hit. It's just that critical hits for non-damaging effects seldom give any benefit. But they can.
You cannot gain a critical hit on an attack that does not do some type of damage. From the PRD, A critical hit means that you roll your damage more than once, with all your usual bonuses, and add the rolls together.
Would you deny a Qinggong Monk using Ki Leech who confirms a critical hit with a trip attempt from siphoning ki? The spells does not require you to do damage, it merely requires that you score a critical hit (or reduce them to 0 or lower hp).
Yes, I would deny it. You cannot do a critical hit with a trip attack. Either you hit him or you don't.