Which Spell Focus school to choose for a melee Transmuter?


Advice


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Hello. I'm playing a PFS character at 2nd level tomorrow, so it's time to lock down the build. My basic concept is Half Orc Barbarian 1 - Wizard 5 -> Eldritch Knight 5 (but of course maybe i'll go to Wizard 6 or 8 or whatever, have plenty of time to figure that out later). Right now he'll just be a Barbarian 1 / Wizard 1. I'm picking up Transmutation(Enhancement) as my school, and am planning to select Enchantment and Evocation as my disfavored schools. I'm trying to figure out where to put my freebie Spell Focus. Transmutation doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense; at low levels Illusion is a good pick for color spray but I'm not sure that I'll be casting many illusions at higher levels. I haven't played Pathfinder past 5th level or so, so i'm not as familiar with higher level spells that are new/changed from 3.5. Anyone have opinions or thoughts on the matter?

Silver Crusade

My only suggestion is if you don't have a play experience past level 5. Do not multiclass like this. It looks good on paper, but dose not work in practical application. You could go with a magus, and it will work better. However they still have there unique problems.


its really going to depend on what type of spells you are going to use when you are not transmuting. if you are going to debuff using bestow cures, cause fear, and things like that then necromancy would be good for your spell focus. illusion could be good if you use spells like silent image, major image and the like in addition to color spray. not to mention the shadow conjuration and shadow evocation spells would benefit from spell focus illusion as well. but those are considerable higher lv spells, I believe 4 and 5 lv respectively.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

I'd recommend barbarian 2/wizard 5/eldritch knight 5 to pick up the Moment of Clarity rage power.

I'd also recommend not making Enchantment one of your opposition schools; heroism is just too useful for a combat wizard. In addition, flare is one of the few spells without somatic components (can be cast in armor without a chance of failure; spark, feather fall, flare burst, and true strike, as well), so I'd recommend against Evocation as an opposition school, too. Illusion and Necromancy are probably a better bet; wands of color spray are fairly easy to obtain and so are scrolls of false life.

For Spell Focus, Conjuration has a lot of the "save or suck" spells (grease, glitterdust, web, stinking cloud, etc.). It also allows the selection of Augment Summoning at wizard 3 (character level 5) for more capable critters to help you out in combat. Still Spell is probably a good choice for the bonus metamagic feat at wizard 5 (cast Stilled spells in armor without spell failure).

Grand Lodge

I would recommend considering divination as an opposition school, you wont need it through most of your PFS career. I'd also recommend Necromancy, as you won't be the type of caster sitting back spamming enervation. I disagree with Dragonchess and think Evocation and Enchantment are both low enough on great choices that they are an option, although only secondary choices in my opinion. I've also considered building an EK with a certain boon I have access to, making him more interesting and my highest level character is a wizard so I can recommend Spell Focus: Conjuration with no doubt in my mind. Augment Summoning and the conjuration school powers, especially with Teleportation to swift action move your full attack is awesome.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The argument to keep Divination: true strike. Supporting arguments: detect magic, read magic, identify, see invisibility, arcane sight, arcane eye, and scrying.

Also, I'm thinking of what spells the character will find most useful at barbarian 2/wizard 1-2. Mage armor isn't the best bet for AC for a combat wizard and you're not going to have much magical gear for protection, so spells that can be cast in armor (without waiting for CL 3 to take Arcane Armor Training (pushing Augment Summoning out until 7th character level) or Still Spell bumping the spell level up by one) are very desirable. Flare (Evocation), while not that impressive mechanically (-1 on attack rolls) is still a somewhat useful debuff that can be spammed at will as a cantrip; feather fall (Transmutation) is a pretty nice emergency "safety net" against falls, pit traps, etc.; true strike (Divination) is one of the best combat boosts in the game (within it's limits). Enchantment gets some decent 2nd-level spells in hideous laughter and touch of idiocy, before getting heroism (+2 on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks for 10 min/level).

Grand Lodge

Illusion is incredibly useful for not dying. All schools have excellent spells outside of maybe Necromancy. I knew that True Strike was the main reason he would want to keep Divination. Detect Magic and Read Magic are great but cantrips and thus you have the spell slot. I've never seen anyone cast scrying in PFS, it's a drain on your already limited resources. See Invis is replaceable with the arguably better Glitterdust, Arcane Sight and Arcane Eye, while useful, are not enough to keep the school for. While in some adventures True Strike is actually that good to keep the school on its own I don't think Divination is a definite keep just because of the virtues it has in home games.

Flare is not what I want to be spending my standard actions using in general. I'd rather pick up a wand of Magic Missile and spam the hell out of it at the very least. I agree Enchantment has some great spells, but he has to give up something. Illusion gives up a Wizards only early power play, Color Spray, Vanish, a fantastic "Oh crap" spell that my 8th level Wizard still prepares, Invisibility; Vanish Original, MIRROR IMAGE, one of the best defenses for him I can think of, Displacement, and some other great or situationally awesome spells. Most of his defense should come from Illusion school. I haven't played an EK yet but unless they have some magical not die button I don't see what he does without these important defensive buffs when facing a BBEG in melee.

I haven't played so much Pathfinder that I believe I am absolutely correct, but in PFS these are my beliefs based off my personal experiences.


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

If you can cast in armor (i.e., spells without somatic components), you don't need illusions that much since you have a decent AC. Yes, color spray is a nice spell to disable an opponent, but so is a +20 bonus (true strike) on a raging (Moment of Clarity) Power Attack with a two handed weapon.

You are describing a "stand in the back" caster. What the OP stated as his concept is an "in your face" caster.

Grand Lodge

Wizards are never going to have incredible AC. Eldritch Knights don't get it particularly high either. I fail to see how you're surviving hits at 9th-11th levels with a middling hp of 77-95 and looking at an ac of 23 at best if you're the front line. In scenarios like

A certain season 4 scenario:
Fortress of the Nail 8-9 subtier

where you can take an average of 71 DPR with the BBEG having a 95% chance to hit you. Of course you could not wade into combat with the thing, but you don't know its capabilities until it hits something. I would rather have buffs in place than wade into battle with a beast like that, which was not entirely uncommon in the 8-9 subtier. I am most definitely not describing a "stand in the back caster". Even if vanish and invis are less useful for combatants, they have their merits, and displacement and mirror images are indispensable defenses for the melee arcane combatant. Scenarios are getting more difficult, you can't just walk into combat with middle of the road ac/hp and no extra defenses unless you slice that thing in half on your first full attack, and I see no reason why this EK does this better than the next martial. It's got a worse time hitting when not true-striking and can go down if not played well.

Not bashing the op's concept, I think it's fine, but you have to be prepared beyond the typical if you want to wade into melee with some of the higher tiered monsters, and that's what a PrC is geared towards, higher levels.

Sovereign Court

Kurthnaga wrote:
Wizards are never going to have incredible AC. Eldritch Knights don't get it particularly high either. I fail to see how you're surviving hits at 9th-11th levels with a middling hp of 77-95 and looking at an ac of 23 at best if you're the front line.

I strongly disagree. I have a Wizard 6 (Scrollmaster) who spends most scenarios at a 28 AC. That comes from:

Mage Armor: 4
Dexterity: 7 (15 + 1 lv4 + 2 racial + 2 protege + 2 belt + 2 monstrous physique)
Scroll Shield: 4 (level 6 scroll with a fortifying stone for durability)
Ring of Protection: 1
Natural Armor: 1 (monstrous physique)
Size: 1 (monstrous physique)

She's at 50 HP (with a 16 Con, thanks to the transmuter bonus) and is looking at 90 HP (average of 112 with greater false life) at level 11. For offense, she relies mostly on monstrous physique, taking the form of a charda for 5 primary attacks (more commonly, 4 and a shield) at +12 to hit and 1d6/1d4 + 9 damage with an agile Amulet of the Mighty Fist. Since monstrous physique lasts 16 minutes (Korada's Blessing plus Varisian Tattoo plus rod of extend) and she can cast it two to three times, she routinely spends an entire scenario as a charda, in which time she can talk, cast, and wear gear, though she looks pretty peculiar.

So yes, Wizards can, in fact, be very solid frontline fighters. OP, best of luck in your quest. My recommendation for Spell Focus is transmutation 100%. It has some excellent offensive spells, and Varisian Tattoos are invaluable. If you have time to retrain, I'd recommend picking up Korada's Blessing from Champions of Purity for +1 CL on transmutations as well.

Grand Lodge

I may have been incorrect, but it was not my intent to mean that Wizards ac couldn't be high. Merely that I don't see how it could be high with armor on. Looking back at it even with armor at 6 you could probably have a 25-26, but you still get hit over half of the time by the tougher creatures in PFS in the new scenarios. Given the creature I mentioned is a bit abnormal, even for Season 4. Even against your impressive ac however, the creature has a 90% chance of hitting you. And with the build you're suggesting I would not necessarily recommend the EK PrC.

The fact is even a Wizard with good ac who melees is going to want mirror images, because they stack decently well with good AC. Displacement does as well. The more secure you are on the front lines, the better. And I never said they couldn't be, I said relying on a large armor bonus(and +5 or more is large) just does not seem optimal to me on a Wizard/EK PrC, at least use it in tandem with other strong defensive options. Your hp for levels 2-6 is going to be a little lower than you would like a lot of the time. Illusion seems like too good of a school to drop, particularly with how overall mediocre Divination is in PFS. Generally the scenarios restrict you from making awesome use of the typical scrying and the like, and while knowing what's coming is great, it's not worth giving up Illusion imo. There are other options as well, but Illusion is one of the three schools I would say was nearly required for a melee Wizard. If you have fantastic AC like Illeist and manage to maintain your growth it is a solid defense. But with actual armor I'm not even sure you can keep an in combat AC that high for a large number of rounds, since your dex will be limited to +3 at best. As an EK you also generally want strength, especially with your planned barbarian first level. You're pretty MAD actually, you want Str->Int->Con=Dex.

Got a little scrambled there but the point is I see no reason why you would want to drop the Illusion school when there are so many fantastic early entries.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

Thank you all for your advice.

I'm not dropping Illusion, for the reasons Kurthnaga mentioned. I'm still comfortable getting rid of Evocation, but I'll have to take a hard look at Heroism, so thank you Dragonschess Player.

Illiest: I guess taking Transmutation would be the most flavor-appropriate choice. Varisian Tatoo seems quite solid as well, I will have to see where it can fit into the build. Unfortunately I can't take Transmuter of Korada since I'll need Magical Knack to make up for the dead levels from Barbarian 1 and EK 1.

My plan for dealing with armor is an Armored Coat at 2nd level, as I can take a 5 ft step, remove the coat, and cast eg a Color spray all in the same round. At third level i'll qualify for Arcane Armor training (given Magical Knack), which will let me wear a Mithril Chain Shirt.

In reality, this character is my #4 PFS character, and i've already got a 6th, a 4th, and 3rd level character ahead of them, so he won't see as much play, as I'll favor my higher level characters first. Only reason i'm getting him ready for today is we are playing Glass River Rescue, and this is my Qadiran character (my Osiriani character is the lvl 6 and therefore too high to play it). So as long as he's fun at low levels and not entirely unplayable thereafter, i'll be happy. And yeah, i recognize there will be some monsters that I will not actually want to go into melee against and just hang back and sling spells at.

Again, thanks all.

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