So, seen the idea of having the Gunslinger reskinned as a crossbow-user tossed around a few times, and I decided it was time to finally take a crack at making it happen.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Pavise Crossbowmen are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with all crossbows. They are proficient with all light armor and tower shields.
Rapid Reload: Gunslingers begin play with the Rapid Reload Feat. This replaces the Gunsmith class ability.
Grit: Functions as written, except that grit is restored by critical hits and killing blows from Crossbows, not firearms.
Deeds: Replace all references to firearms in the deeds section with crossbows.
Deadeye: At 1st level, the Pavise Crossbowman may spend one grit point to resolve all crossbow attacks against touch AC, so long as they target an enemy within 30 feet. For every additional point of grit spent, extend the range of this ability by thirty feet. This modifies the Deadeye deed.
Deploy Pavise: At 1st level, the Pavise Crossbowman may deploy a tower shield to gain cover as a move action by spending a single grit point. At 11th level, the time needed to deploy a tower shieled is reduced to a swift action. This replaces the Quick Clear deed.
Utility Shot: The Pavise Crossbowman does not gain the Stop Bleeding option.
Pavise Reposition: At 11th level, the Pavise Crossbowman may spend one grit point to reposition a tower shield that is providing cover as an immediate action. This replace the Lightning Reload deed.
Pavise Expert: At 11th level, the Pavise Crossbowman gains the benefit of any enchantments of special abilities placed upon her tower shield when it is deployed as cover as if she were wielding it. This replaces the Expert Loading deed.
Pavise Mastery: At 19th level, the Pavise Crossbowman may spend a point of grit as a free action to gain her tower shield's bonus to Armor Class when using it to gain cover until the end of her next turn. This replaces the Death's Shot deed.
Pavisier: The Pavise Crossbowman can use a tower shield to provide cover by placing it in the ground, and thus does not count as actively wielding it (so she has two free hands and is not subject to it's maximum dexterity to AC restrictions or penalties on attack rolls). This replaces the Nimble Class Feature.
Crossbow Mastery: At 4th level, the Pavise Crossbowman gains the Crossbow Mastery feat. This replaces the gunslinger's 4th level Bonus Feat.
Crossbow Training: At 5th level, a Pavise Crossbowman increases her skill with Crossbows. She gains a bonus on damage rolls equal to her Dexterity modifier. This replaces firearm training 1.
Weapon Training: At 9th level, the Pavise Crossbowman gains weapon training (as the fighter class feature) in the Crossbow weapon group. Every four levels thereafter (13th and 17th), the bonus increases by +1. This replaces firearm training 2, 3, and 4.
Bumped, because I'd really like to get some feedback.
sorry read this earlier but i was busy, and i must say i was impressed. As someone who has seen seen a couple of attempts at this i must say your the first person I've seen to implement mobile cover. i have never found tower shields that interesting before now and must say you have a way to make me want one.
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The concept is interesting, just some suggestions :
- Since you already gain crossbow training providing you Dex-to-damage wih a weapon that will never misfire, weapon training should remain a Fighter-only feature, even for a crossbowman ! Just give a progressive bonus to damage as normal and maybe increase the critical multiplier by 1 at 13th level, providing you with a potential 17-20x3 weapon.
- Having to spend grit to deploy a tower shield feels wrong, the same way having to spend arcane points to cast spells would feel wrong for a magus. You got your big determining concept-schtick, I believe it should reflect by being a free feature... but only as long as you have grit, obviously. The grit-for-immediate reposition if fine though ; but it should provide the shield's bonuses to your AC against the next attacks from the square you are hit (instead of full cover), a bit as an improved version of the Body Shield feat. So a +2 tower shield would provide a +6 AC bonus against attacks from the square until the beginning of your next round, which is nothing to sneeze at (even if pavise expert will naturally reduce this bonus to +4 at level 11 since you then get any enhancement full-time... or more if you have shield feats).
- Maybe the pavise crossbowman may gain a cool special feature for his dead shot, allowing him to perform one additional 5-foot step in the same round at the cost of a penalty to attack (basically, you would have the possibility to spend 1 grit point to perform a 5-foot step, then a dead shot with a -5 penalty to attack rolls, then a final 5-foot step as if sniping, allowing you to get off-cover, strike hard and get back to cover).
- Since you already gain crossbow training providing you Dex-to-damage with a weapon that will never misfire, weapon training should remain a Fighter-only feature, even for a crossbowman! Just give a progressive bonus to damage as normal and maybe increase the critical multiplier by 1 at 13th level, providing you with a potential 17-20x3 weapon.
That works just fine.
- Having to spend grit to deploy a tower shield feels wrong, the same way having to spend arcane points to cast spells would feel wrong for a magus. You got your big determining concept-schtick, I believe it should reflect by being a free feature... but only as long as you have grit, obviously.
Well, you can still deploy the tower shield using the normal rules for gaining cover, it's just that takes up a standard action. The grit point is for for knocking it down from standard to move/swift.
The grit-for-immediate reposition if fine though ; but it should provide the shield's bonuses to your AC against the next attacks from the square you are hit (instead of full cover), a bit as an improved version of the Body Shield feat. So a +2 tower shield would provide a +6 AC bonus against attacks from the square until the beginning of your next round, which is nothing to sneeze at (even if pavise expert will naturally reduce this bonus to +4 at level 11 since you then get any enhancement full-time... or more if you have shield feats).
Not a bad idea, but I think just sticking to the cover mechanics instead of mixing cover sometimes and shield the rest of the time is a better option.
- Maybe the pavise crossbowman may gain a cool special feature for his dead shot, allowing him to perform one additional 5-foot step in the same round at the cost of a penalty to attack (basically, you would have the possibility to spend 1 grit point to perform a 5-foot step, then a dead shot with a -5 penalty to attack rolls, then a final 5-foot step as if sniping, allowing you to get off-cover, strike hard and get back to cover).
Taking two five-foot-steps seems a bit wonky as a mechanic.
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That works just fine.
It may look fine mechanically, but then come the gloves of duelist, and you have a crossbomwan gunslinger dealing more damage than a crossbowman fighter. The same way you don't give a non-alchemist full alchemy or a non-sorcerer full-level bloodlines, you don't provide an archetype with the iconic, most powerful abilities from two martial classes without nerfing hard something else as a compensation.
A gunslinger is all about exceptional accuracy and flashy special tricks, which the pavise could do by putting total covers and move/strike/cover regularly to keep the mobile tank feeling ; a fighter is all about hitting true and hard, and having few but especially efficient tricks up his sleeve.Well, you can still deploy the tower shield using the normal rules for gaining cover, it's just that takes up a standard action. The grit point is for for knocking it down from standard to move/swift.
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Not a bad idea, but I think just sticking to the cover mechanics instead of mixing cover sometimes and shield the rest of the time is a better option.
The problem is that you got a class feature that will negate your own efficiency (a ranged character creating a total cover in front of him is usually not the brightest one), AND is able to basically negate a full-round attack from a square of your choice once per round. Way too bad if you have to pay for it even as a move action, way too powerful to gain total cover as an immediate action. Just compare this feature to any other feat/deed improving your AC as an immediate action, and you'll see none provides this kind of benefits.
So, logical answer : let the TS installation shine by being free so you are mobile around the battlefield, and nerf bat the immediate-action-for-total-cover to oblivion. Immediate action for a minimum +4 to AC against all attacks in a round made from a specific square is already awesome enough.Taking two five-foot-steps seems a bit wonky as a mechanic.
No wonkier than sniping as per the rules, or using the Step Up or Spring Attack feats. It's pretty iconic and flashy for a crossbow slinger to stay in cover, check quickly the situation, jump out for a single powerful and accurate blow and retreat back into cover like in a any good action movie.
That works just fine.It may look fine mechanically, but then come the gloves of duelist, and you have a crossbomwan gunslinger dealing more damage than a crossbowman fighter. The same way you don't give a non-alchemist full alchemy or a non-sorcerer full-level bloodlines, you don't provide an archetype with the iconic, most powerful abilities from two martial classes without nerfing hard something else as a compensation.
A gunslinger is all about exceptional accuracy and flashy special tricks, which the pavise could do by putting total covers and move/strike/cover regularly to keep the mobile tank feeling ; a fighter is all about hitting true and hard, and having few but especially efficient tricks up his sleeve.
I meant your suggestion works of switching to damage buffs and an increased critical multiplier works, not the previous Weapon Training.
The problem is that you got a class feature that will negate your own efficiency (a ranged character creating a total cover in front of him is usually not the brightest one), AND is able to basically negate a full-round attack from a square of your choice once per round. Way too bad if you have to pay for it even as a move action, way too powerful to gain total cover as an immediate action. Just compare this feature to any other feat/deed improving your AC as an immediate action, and you'll see none provides this kind of benefits.
So, logical answer : let the TS installation shine by being free so you are mobile around the battlefield, and nerf bat the immediate-action-for-total-cover to oblivion. Immediate action for a minimum +4 to AC against all attacks in a round made from a specific square is already awesome enough.
Immediate-action repositioning is actually something the Fighter Tower Shield Specialist archetype gets already (except he doesn't have to spend grit on it).
As for the cover issue, perhaps the Pavisier should reduce the cover penalty causes to your own attacks?
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I meant your suggestion works of switching to damage buffs and an increased critical multiplier works, not the previous Weapon Training.
Whoops, my bad. Meanings sometimes get lost on the boards. :)
Immediate-action repositioning is actually something the Fighter Tower Shield Specialist archetype gets already (except he doesn't have to spend grit on it).
He does, but there is also the mention that it cannot be used to interrupt an attack. Also, to be honest, the fighter archetype is more of a damage-nullifier tank than a mobile turret with high damage and potentially high AC like the pavise.
As for the cover issue, perhaps the Pavisier should reduce the cover penalty causes to your own attacks?
Something like "Arrowslit : the pavise crossbowman may shoot through her TS at the expense of accuracy. She treats the full cover provided by her TS on a side of her square as a simple cover for the purposes of her own ranged attacks, allowing her to shoot through it - enemies receive a +4 bonus to AC against these attacks as if benefiting from a cover, this penalty cannot be reduced by a feat or weapon property like Seeking" could work, indeed.
He does, but there is also the mention that it cannot be used to interrupt an attack. Also, to be honest, the fighter archetype is more of a damage-nullifier tank than a mobile turret with high damage and potentially high AC like the pavise.
Hmm. Might be worth adding the "cannot be used to interrupt an attack" clause to the Pavise Crossbowman version of it then.
Something like "Arrowslit : the pavise crossbowman may shoot through her TS at the expense of accuracy. She treats the full cover provided by her TS on a side of her square as a simple cover for the purposes of her own ranged attacks, allowing her to shoot through it - enemies receive a +4 bonus to AC against these attacks as if benefiting from a cover, this penalty cannot be reduced by a feat or weapon property like Seeking" could work, indeed.
That could work.
Hi, I have read through your archetype and am wondering if you would like to take a look at my crossbowman gunslinger alternet class. I would really like som feedback.
I think your idea is cool and probably more usefull than mine.
Click on the link too se my alternativ class Crossbowman.