
Sirlink |
Sirlink wrote:Why do you want a 2-hander specifically? You can always use a scimitar but wield it in two hands...I am trying to build a 2hand weapon Goblin that utilizes the +4 Dex.
Are there any 2handed weapons that use Weapon Finesse?
Thought behind 2hander is die to the insain number of feats for twf

Vestrial |
Thought behind 2hander is die to the insain number of feats for twf
Er, huh? I'll assume you meant THF, but what insane number of feats specifically target thf? if your ultimate goal is to do damage, you're better off with a scimitar and dervish dance as a goblin than a 2h weapon since your strength will be rather low...

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Sirlink wrote:Thought behind 2hander is die to the insain number of feats for twfEr, huh? I'll assume you meant THF, but what insane number of feats specifically target thf? if your ultimate goal is to do damage, you're better off with a scimitar and dervish dance as a goblin than a 2h weapon since your strength will be rather low...
He meant he wants to use THF because TWF requires too many feats to be effective.

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thats it :) sry only half in the mind set becaus I am at work.
Is dervish effective as a small character?
Dervish dance is effective more or less regardless of your size (penalties to DEX for large+ sizes not included). The only problem with Dervish Dance is you have to have a free hand, so you won't be wielding that scimitar in two hands. Probably worth the tradeoff though since most effective THF feats are STR based. Take Dervish Dance and the Crane Style Feats and you'll be a defensive beast with solid attack and damage.

Sirlink |
Here is my problem with Dirvish dance
1) one handed only, no 2 handing it
2) requires you to burn 2 ranks in dance(thats expensive as a fighter)
3) forces you to burn weapon focus on scimitars
4) 1d4 for a small character
When set side by side with say the Elven blade it just doent stack up.
Exotic weapon and weapon finesse are all you would need plus you have the same crit range and 1d8 damage

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Here is my problem with Dirvish dance
1) one handed only, no 2 handing it
2) requires you to burn 2 ranks in dance(thats expensive as a fighter)
3) forces you to burn weapon focus on scimitars
4) 1d4 for a small characterWhen set side by side with say the Elven blade it just doent stack up.
Exotic weapon and weapon finesse are all you would need plus you have the same crit range and 1d8 damage
He'll also need to have the Agile weapon property on that ECB to keep up, otherwise he's getting outdamaged by the smaller die-size scimitar. Then you slap Agile on there, and for the same price the guy using the scimitar is slapping on some elemental damage or a different ability... The reality is that the difference in damage between the two is negligible at most levels of play. The only real difference is the cost. I would say that Weapon Focus isn't really feat burn since you get a tangible bonus and it's the prereq for most of the other fighter feats. The only real burn he's feeling here is the two skill ranks he has to put into Perform (Dance).
Eventually, the guy building well with Dervish Dance will have better AC and mildly worse damage, and two skill points less. That's assuming that the guy using the ECB is using Power Attack, since he won't be getting 1.5x damage for wielding it two-handed with a Dex-based character. Power Attack requires a 13 STR though, which our high dex gobbo may or may not want to buy the 15 for, when he could put those stat points into pumping DEX, CON, WIS, or INT. If he drops it in INT, he's closed the skill gap.

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Curveblade is definitely better for maxing damage, but you have to get to a 13 STR to be able to take Power Attack to really make that build work, so that you can get the -1/3 attack/damage multiplier. One handing the scimitar with Power Attack isn't going to get you high-tier damage - and you can't use Piranha Strike with a scimitar, since it isn't a light weapon.
3) forces you to burn weapon focus on scimitars
I just have to say it: if you are trying to build a melee damage character and you are NOT including Weapon Focus, you aren't doing it right! I'm not saying dervish Dance is the win for damage builds (in fact I am saying it is NOT), but Weapon Focus is almost NEVER a bad feat selection for a melee damage build.
Note: the Aldori Dueling Sword is a solid option if you want a high-damage build but occasionally need to have a free hand: you can use weapon finesses (when you spend a feat to master the weapon), but you can switch back and forth between one hand and two.

Vestrial |
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When set side by side with say the Elven blade it just doent stack up.
Exotic weapon and weapon finesse are all you would need plus you have the same crit range and 1d8 damage
You're right, it doesn't stack up. It totally demolishes the curve blade.
Saying 'no 2 handing it' is a disadvantage of DD is a bit misleading. You have no strength bonus to capitalize on a 2h anyway, so the two-handedness of a curve blade isn't helping. So dervish dance is 'two-handed' in the same way that the curve blade is... But with a +4 dex racial you will start the game with at least +4 damage from dex, which more than compensates for the smaller die. It also scales with level, whereas the d8 doesn't.
And two skill ranks really don't hurt a fighter. You have no skills to speak of anyway. And if you want some, you're better off dipping a level of a class that actually has a decent list and more points/level...

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Haha! I always forget about Pirhana Strike, that feat that showed up in a Player Companion 2.5 years ago and never in any other material, but which is totally wicked good for anyone who's playing a Duelist or Dex-based melee character.
Pirhana Strike doesn't work for the ECB either, though, and having to spread your stats around to capitolize on a two-hander is going to hurt you more in damage and survivability than the cost of Dervish Dance.