Another "Campaign asking for advice" thread.


Homebrew and House Rules


Long time lurker, first time poster. Hoping I don't have myself in over my head, hence the thread here asking for advice.

The group: 6 or 7 of us that play once a week, for 3-4 hours at a time. I'm DMing, and we've got both players that have played some version of the oldest tabletop RPG for over 2 decades, and players that haven't played at all. Age range is from 24-38 or so, playing in a house as opposed to the LGS, and everyone has experience in gaming of some sort. Not everyone can make every session, more on this below.

Me: This is the 3rd campaign I've tried to run, and the first one to actually have legs. The first couple were easily 8-10 years ago, 3.0, and I'd like to think I've learned from my mistakes. One of those is not asking for help, and this...well, you'll see.

Resources: At this point, the CRB, GMG, Best1 and 2, UC and UM. 3 FR 3.0 setting books. Iron Kingdoms Players Guide 1. FR 4.0 Campaign Guide. Other miscellaneous books. (including some old Palladium RPG supplements)

The setting: Homebrew. I basically took Forgotten Realms, made the Shades disappear 10 years past 4.0 campaign start, and moved the timeline up 300 years to an industrial/steampunk/magitech era. I've cut and pasted parts of 4.0 FR into the 3.0 setting, but I'm using 3.0 as my jumpoff point for time period advancement, not 4.0.

I really wanted to use the resources I had, as opposed to spending money on Golarion resources. Not that I'm opposed to the general principle of the thing, but like everyone else I'm on a budget, and rulebooks > sourcebooks at the moment. I still need to pick up Best 3 and 4, and the ARG.

Essentially, I wanted airships and steampunk. Airships give me the excuse to have players pop in and out of the story with minimal explanation of the hows and whys, and I seem to recall a statement by James Jacobs that said they really didn't fit into the feel of the Inner Sea well (or something to this effect.) Steampunk because I really REALLY want to work Iron Kingdoms technology into the game. That said, we're at the "Guns are commonplace" setting, but not mechanical cartridges. The atmosphere of the game itself is a bit of Imperial Europe (1840-1870), part western, part steampunk/magitech, part industrial revolution, and a good part of Firefly (or at least, that's the plan once we get into the swing of things).

So...here, then, are the players (and challenges)

Players: Human musket master, half-elf stealth rogue, elvish two weapon fighter, gnomish alchemist, tiefling magus, and dwarven cleric. There so far hasn't developed a "leader," but the gnomish alchemist might be the party mascot and/or clown. They're all level 2, and will hit 3 sometime in the next couple of play sessions.

1) Mechanics. Opting for a more heroic campaign, we did 5d6 drop 2 for character creation. I'm adjusting for this with +1 APL, but I feel like I'm walking a thin line between party wipe and cakewalk. I'm using the "more baddies" approach instead of BBEG for fights, but I'm also usually running 6 players at the table. Is another +1 APL appropriate for this? Is there a better way of dealing with this short of waiting until 5th or 6th level and letting it all even out? I'm experimenting with longer encounters + more bad guys, including waves + timed enounters, but currently they've got one incredible 15 minute adventuring day.

I ran the first encounter at CR6, using 6 Thugs (fighter 1/rogue 1) from the GMG, and went from almost killing the PC rogue in round 2 to having all 6 thugs down in round 4. This would be an Epic+ encounter at level 1 for 4 PCs at 15 point buy, but it felt about right.

2)In the past, my campaigns failed because I tried to pigeonhole my players into the story I wanted to tell. I've grown since then, this was 10 years ago, but I am constantly trying to be aware of what they want to do vs. what I think would make a better story.

3) Biting off more than I can chew: I really like the setting. It's resonated well with players, but I want it to be more than just the edges of the frame around the picture that the characters are currently in. Short of incorporating warjacks, how do I create a feel of early industrial while also keeping the high magic of FR? And how do I manage these while keeping 2 firmly in mind? I'm leaning towards cinematic combat that would utilize urban and industrial environments (rooftop battles with the city burning down around you, vats of molten iron, duels on the top of airships hundreds of feet up, that sort of things), but is there a better way to do this?

4) Ability creep. I have airships, I'm sure combat is going to go aerial at some point, but I dislike the image of the 10th level fighter with enough aerial acrobatics to make a Cirque performer envious. Plus, if I've gone through the trouble to design multiple airships and all that jazz, how do I keep the sandbox as opposed to railroad feel while limiting their ability to use teleport, etc.

5) Multiple PCs per player. An idea we're tossing around, and one I'm leaning towards granting. I know there are balance issues to be worked out...such as not letting one character borrow all the equipment that the other has, but has anyone played around with this? To be clear, I'm not talking about John running 2 characters at the same time, but rather choosing which character he wants to bring to today's session, knowing there's a possibility the other character might be involved elsewhere next week with its own story. This would give players more flexibility in play style, and would slow down the inevitable march of character levels.

6) Setting. It's a strength, but it's also a challenge. Again, I like what I've done with some of it, but I almost feel as if I'm just using the names and places from FR. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but even I'm at a loss as to how to work high magic into an industrialized world. Or do I just run with what I have, and ignore the integration of high magic until it really matters?

I know that experience DMing is key to a number of these challenges, but I wanted to start thinking about them now, prior to them becoming an issue in the game. So...I come to you lot asking for advice, commentary, "oh god don't do this", or anything in between. "Ur campaign is stupid" is also a valid response, but keep in mind I'll ignore every response like that past the first. :P

Silver Crusade

setting:
If you haven't considered it, the Eberron setting (for 3.x) does a pretty good job of mixing magic with technology. You might be able to steal some ideas from there.

sandbox:
In terms of dealing with a sandbox feel, there's alot to be said for reskinning. If you designed a temple to an evil god that you thought they would explore, but the players flew their airship to a remote volcanic island, there's no reason you can't just move the encounters from the temple to the island. Give them a few fire abilities, remove the holy symbols, give them black skin, whatever. The numbers and the layout are the same and so you save alot of time and headache. All the while your players get the sandbox feel and the sense of making their own decisions.

ability creep:
You will simply have to deal with this unless you keep the game low level or limit the players' options. I don't like either of these but they may work for you. Let the fighter fly around if he wants, and give him a flying demon to dance with in midair while you're at it.

ability scores:
The ability score increase will pan out after a few levels, but then again CR is just an approximation. Make fights that are both challenging and fun and you can't go wrong. That said, around level 5 you should stop adjusting CR.

multiple characters:
Multiple PCs per player just asks to be broken. "We're going into the vault of evil undeath? Get out your paladins, good clerics, and undead hunting rangers everyone." It might work but you should probably limit how often they can switch.


Combat-difficulty-wise, it sounds like you're either right where you want to be, or a little too high. Actually, it sounds like it's swinging hard between too hard and too easy, from what you said.
Normally, more than 5 PCs is a +1 APL. I can see 5d6 drop 2 for stats as worth another +1 APL. But this is always a delicate balancing act. I'd suggest mixing some definitely easy encounters with some harder ones, and unless you all like it, avoid that 15-minute adventuring day.

There isn't anything wrong with limiting teleport. (I'm sure many people will disagree with me on this.) Especially if there are airships and other means of fairly fast travel. I have honestly never liked unrestricted teleportation; I'm pretty much fine with short-range teleportation, and otherwise I like it limited to fixed point to fixed point (teleportation circles, stargates, that sort of thing).

Overall it looks like the question that will take the most thought is integrating technology & magic. This really requires stepping back and brainstorming for a while.

Are we dealing with magitech like Eberron, where magic substitutes for or is at the heart of all technology? That is, Eberron basically accomplishes standard technological things, like trains, by using magic instead of technology. (And I have a setting where, for example, magic is used in place of technological advances to facilitate the smelting of iron.)

Or do magic & technology function independently of each other? Do they have specific spheres of influence or specialty?

Often the presumption is that due to magic being able to fill many niches, technology just isn't developed. Because you can hire a wizard to make a magical flying ship, you don't need to figure out how to make a ship fly through physics. One way to address this is to have magic developed later than technology; we already figured out how to make technological airships, and then magic awakened or was (re)discovered. This could still be well in the past of the setting.

Or technology could have developed to counteract spellcasters jealously hoarding their capabilities, or pricing them outside the means of most people (which the standard magic item economy supports). Over generations, people figured out how to build that technological airship because the wizards refused to let them have a magical one.

A third option would be that magic is for X, and technology is for Y. This could be broad areas (difficult, given the breadth of magic). Or it could be that technology was developed, possibly with wizards aiding in spellcasters aiding in the research. Since it's difficult to create a reasonably priced magical item that allows lots of communication, we figured out the wireless telegraph. Now with just a little skill, we can communicate over long distances, far more cheaply than an item of sending would cost.

Those are the major angles I can see for magic and technology being integrated.

Edit:
Massively agreed on reskinning. You design an encounter assuming the party will turn right and they turn left? Turns out the encounter was to the left all along. Change the flavor and you retain the prep, and can even keep the party on essentially invisible rails. If the party takes a hook you didn't expect (or intend), just make it somehow lead to an intended (but reflavored) encounter. You can even make sure they encounter your primary plot somehow. Just make sure it's not obvious. If they don't want to go hunt down the cult of Orcus, don't make it so that when they see a random ruin, it just happens to be inhabited by the cult. (Re-use the encounter, as something totally different.) Now if they were just turning down "track down rumors of something", sure, they can end up with the cult of Orcus at the ruins... but if they ever track those rumors down, they now point to something else.

With multiple characters, don't so much allow them to swap out, as run simultaneous campaigns. Maybe they can cross over occasionally. Or just run shorter campaigns; this is how I'm aiming to seriously develop one of my settings. I'll run a 4-5 level campaign in one area, wrap it up, and run another in a different area. These will be roughly contemporaneous (I think; some may be notably earlier), and allow me to eventually go to a larger campaign, with all those as background that make sure that not only do I know the setting, but the players do as well. (And their former characters may even be important people.)

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