After a very scary encounter where my Monk was beaten down in both HP and CHA and barely survived the fight (three level 6 characters (two more ran away at start of fight from a fear affect) versus a EL 9 ghost!) I've decided I want to have a backup character ready to go in case the worst happens and I lose the monk.
I've decided that my next project (the monk was my first ever PF character after years and years of 3.5) will be a 'arcane duelist' archtype bard.
The party is currently six players strong. The characters (other then the monk) are a Gunslinger, Ninja, Wizard (necro), Fighter (archer), and a Psionic 3rd party character who is, as far as I can tell, basically a Psion. This party focuses a lot on ranged combat, obviously, except the ninja who (I believe he dipped fighter) already has spring attack and occasionally gets into melee.
My plan here is a Catfolk Arcane Duelist, and trying to make the character as DEX score focused as possible. I want to try and keep a control/debuff idea going for spells and such as well, trying to buy time for my missile heavy party to perforate whatever we've encountered
we're level 6 (almost 7) and are using a 26d6 "dice pool" for our stats.
For my pool, I was thinking something like this:
STR 4d6
DEX 6d6
CON 5d6
INT 3d6
WIS 3d6
CHA 5d6
feat selection: I get Arcane Strike (1), Combat Casting (2) and Disruptive (6) as bonus feats for AD. This leaves me with three feats for levels, and I was thinking Weapon Finesse, Combat Reflexes, Two weapon fighting, and using a rapier and whip.
spells: for my four 1st and four 2nd level spells known, I was considering:
1st: Grease, dazzling blade, Ear-piercing scream, vanish
2nd: Blistering invective, Glitterdust, heroism, mirror image
Thoughts folks?
1. Saving Final is a must have for any bard...its a so cool lifesaver.
2. For 7th level i like Flagbearer + Banner of the Ancient Kings (but that will not work with two weapon fighing)
3. Asimar (Azata-Blooded) +2 Dex + 2 Cha and 1/2 bard level for one bardic performance is realy good as race for you concept
Breiti
Generally good stuff. I'd consider more buffs and control spells for a melee oriented bard than damage spells because ultimately you should be able to rely on dealing damage more with weapons than with your spells. Although most of that is fine. Also it's hard to tell what your spell DCs would be with your dice system there.
Oh, and your part doesn't seem to have much healing so I might grab cure light or cure moderate while you're at it.
Breiti: I had no idea that Flagbearer feat existed... wow. That's pretty cool and very flavorful too. Nice visuals and I can see this character being an ex military or other type who was the designated flagbearer/protector.
Not sure about the banner though, as it states I have to hold it in both hands to make it work. Sure, I can attach it to a longspear... but that really takes me away from my weapon finesse/high DEX focus I think.
Saving finale: Being a serious 3.5 bard-o-phile but not yet having played one in pathfinder, I am sort of unsure on how good certain new ideas like 'finale' spells are in PF. Yes, it's an immediate action.. but to drop whatever performance I have going to cast it... I'm not sure. Of course, we haven't been exposed to 'save or die' yet.... but plenty of save or suck :)
DeathQauker: What sort of buffs? There aren't a great many in the bard list that I'm seeing for 1st/2nd level. As it is I can make hazardous terrain (grease), potentially mass blind (glitterdust) and Blistering invective allows me to attempt an intimidate against all enemies within 30 feet, plus deal damage/possibly light on fire. I have mirror image for defense and heroism for better attack rolls. I suppose I could sub out Blistering inv. for something like Blur.
The Psion/whatever he is has been doing a decent job keeping us healed but he tends to run through power points FAST when the fights get tough. I suppose I could swap something for a cure spell and/or make sure to grab a CLW wand.
don't worry about the dice pool. Even though it's listed in the core book, Mine is the only group I've ever encountered who seems to USE the thing. I'm going to roll the actual stats in front of my DM so there's no question of me fudging rolls, but test rolling here I've been getting an average CHA of 17-19 range, counting the catfolk +2 bonus. So DC's on 1st will be 14-15 and on 2nd's should be 15-16
I would not TWF with rapier and whip. You don't have nearly enough feats for both the whip chain and TWF chain. And neither is a light weapon, so you'll take an extra -2 to your attacks. You can have a whip and rapier in hand because you can use one for somatic components, but only use one at a time. Whip provokes at 5' without a chain you can't afford if you TWF and rapier doesn't reach at 10-15'.
I would also go strength>dex. You eventually get medium and heavy armor proficiencies, and it saves you weapon finesse. It may also permit you to use better weapons if you have racial proficiencies. You only need 15 starting dex. The rest can come from belts.
TWF is not quite worth it for you over two handed weapon by the 3:1 accuracy to damage ratio of power attack until you get access to dance of 100 cuts. TWF with double slice might be if you have high enough strength, which is another reason for str>dex. The Asimar favored class bonus is not enough to put you over the top. There is no way TWF with two one handed weapons will ever be worth it. Get one handed and light, two lights, or a double weapon.
Blackfell wrote:
DeathQauker: What sort of buffs? There aren't a great many in the bard list that I'm seeing for 1st/2nd level. As it is I can make hazardous terrain (grease), potentially mass blind (glitterdust) and Blistering invective allows me to attempt an intimidate against all enemies within 30 feet, plus deal damage/possibly light on fire. I have mirror image for defense and heroism for better attack rolls. I suppose I could sub out Blistering inv. for something like Blur.
Like I said, most of what you've got is fine, but it's something to think about as you build the character. Personally I'd want at least 1 healing spell in there, and I actually think yeah, blur would be a much more preferable option to blistering invective. Blur will be helpful to you in a variety of situations. blistering invective is the Dazzling Display feat plus fire, and the fire ONLY works if you succeed on the Intimidate check. At high levels, it's both more chancey you'll succeed and even if you do, the fire damage at that point will be minimal compared to your other combat skills. If you like the idea of demoralizing, then what I'd suggest, particularly if you take the advice to go a different route than TWF, is take the Dazzling Display feat tree instead. Higher up that tree you'll get to deal some status effects that will be way more useful than a little fire damage, and you'll save yourself a spell slot.
you make very good points on Blazing invective. I'll probably go to Blur instead for more defense.
"It may also permit you to use better weapons if you have racial proficiencies."
Can anyone elborate on Atarlost's comment here? Are there some specific races I should be looking at for a better overall weapon (especially if I end up going two-handed)? Half-elf with the one trait/race feature that lets you pick up a wierd weapon?
If not a race switch, is their a fighter archtype that subs out bravery (I'd only dip two levels for feats) for something that would fit this overall concept? Dropping to bard 4/fighter 2 would still leave me with 2nd level spell access and giveme a couple extra feats to mess with, plus more hit points.
Blackfell wrote: Breiti: I had no idea that Flagbearer feat existed... wow. That's pretty cool and very flavorful too. Nice visuals and I can see this character being an ex military or other type who was the designated flagbearer/protector.
Not sure about the banner though, as it states I have to hold it in both hands to make it work. Sure, I can attach it to a longspear... but that really takes me away from my weapon finesse/high DEX focus I think.
Saving finale: Being a serious 3.5 bard-o-phile but not yet having played one in pathfinder, I am sort of unsure on how good certain new ideas like 'finale' spells are in PF. Yes, it's an immediate action.. but to drop whatever performance I have going to cast it... I'm not sure. Of course, we haven't been exposed to 'save or die' yet.... but plenty of save or suck :)
At 7th level you can start a performance as move action so saving final is not bad + there is a feat Lingering Performance that kind of eleminates the drawback.
The banner by RAW gives the +4 Initativ bonus and some other boni when held in two hands, the other boni will be granted even if you grep it with one hand. But it is not clearly written so i would check with my GM ;)
If you are going dex get cats grace and yet to get it off before combat actually begins
Blackfell wrote:
"It may also permit you to use better weapons if you have racial proficiencies."
Can anyone elborate on Atarlost's comment here? Are there some specific races I should be looking at for a better overall weapon (especially if I end up going two-handed)? Half-elf with the one trait/race feature that lets you pick up a wierd weapon?
If not a race switch, is their a fighter archtype that subs out bravery (I'd only dip two levels for feats) for something that would fit this overall concept? Dropping to bard 4/fighter 2 would still leave me with 2nd level spell access and giveme a couple extra feats to mess with, plus more hit points.
For races, maybe he meant some of the orc weapon familiarity or the chain fighter alternate trait for that. Otherwise not sure.
For fighter archetypes, depending, maybe the Weapon Master's resistance against disarm and sunder would be nice, since you'll have a single preferred weapon anyway from your arcane bond. But personally I'd just stick with arcane duelist. Depends on what you want, really.
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