First, let me say that I'm very glad to see alchemical weapons indexed on a weapons table. It's about time! That said, I have a few questions.
1. Table 2-16 groups all alchemical weapons as simple weapons. This seems to contradict the text of throw splash weapon, which states that throw splash weapon requires no proficiency. Perhaps splash weapons are meant to be an exception?
2. Fuse Grenades, and correspondingly Pellet Grenades, are listed as effecting an area, rather than being splash weapons. But the text states "You throw a fuse grenade as if it were a splash weapon." Well, is it a splash weapon or isn't it? Would the bonus damage from the Alchemist's throw anything class feature apply?
3. Pellet Grenades deal 1d6 piercing, 1d6 bludgeoning, and 1d6 fire damage. As far as I know, this mechanic for weapons is unprecedented. Normally, the base damage might be 2d6 B&P, +1d6 fire damage. So what effect does bonus damage from feats such as point blank shot have? Does the bonus damage apply to each damage roll separately, only one damage roll, or to none?
4. Can you craft masterwork alchemical weapons, and likewise enhance them as magic weapons?
1) Splash weapons have not changed. It's there for simplicity.
2) Alchemist get the bonus to damage.
3) The extra damage would only occur once. Which kind, I suppose is up to you.
4) No.
Rhatahema wrote:
1. Table 2-16 groups all alchemical weapons as simple weapons. This seems to contradict the text of throw splash weapon, which states that throw splash weapon requires no proficiency. Perhaps splash weapons are meant to be an exception?
2. Fuse Grenades, and correspondingly Pellet Grenades, are listed as effecting an area, rather than being splash weapons. But the text states "You throw a fuse grenade as if it were a splash weapon." Well, is it a splash weapon or isn't it? Would the bonus damage from the Alchemist's throw anything class feature apply?
3. Pellet Grenades deal 1d6 piercing, 1d6 bludgeoning, and 1d6 fire damage. As far as I know, this mechanic for weapons is unprecedented. Normally, the base damage might be 2d6 B&P, +1d6 fire damage. So what effect does bonus damage from feats such as point blank shot have? Does the bonus damage apply to each damage roll separately, only one damage roll, or to none?
4. Can you craft masterwork alchemical weapons, and likewise enhance them as magic weapons?
I don't have ultimate equipment, so take what I am saying with a grain of salt.
2: It doesn't sound like those weapons are splash weapons, but rather area of effect weapons. An area of effect weapon (or spell) does full damage to everyone in the area, usually with a save for half. A splash weapon does full damage to the target and minimum splash damage to all around the target.
3: It should be damage as follows (1d6 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 1). The reason for separating damage is because of DR.
blackbloodtroll wrote: 1) Splash weapons have not changed. It's there for simplicity.
2) Alchemist get the bonus to damage.
3) The extra damage would only occur once. Which kind, I suppose is up to you.
4) No.
1./4.: How is including "Simple Weapons" at the top of the table there for simplicity? If they're simple weapons, they require simple weapon proficiency. And my questions about the masterwork quality also pertain to this. Essentially, it looks to me like UE reclassifies alchemical weapons as actual weapons, and if so, it changes the nature of the items quite a bit.
Elamdri wrote:
I don't have ultimate equipment, so take what I am saying with a grain of salt.
2: It doesn't sound like those weapons are splash weapons, but rather area of effect weapons. An area of effect weapon (or spell) does full damage to everyone in the area, usually with a save for half. A splash weapon does full damage to the target and minimum splash damage to all around the target.
3: It should be damage as follows (1d6 + 1d6 + 1d6 + 1). The reason for separating damage is because of DR. 2. I don't recall "area" as ever being defined as a weapon property, which kind of confuses things. In general, the term as if gets thrown around way to often in Pathfinder.
3. Well, the extra damage can't be untyped damage, it has to ride on at least one of the damage rolls.
In my opinion, this is something that requires some official clarification. I don't think it's too hard to interpret the rules so that they function, but it doesn't seem to be something addressed in the RAW.
Ah, well, didn't mean to shut down discussion with that last response. Anyone else see these questions as relevant, based on the information presented in Ultimate Equipment? Or am I reading too much into it?
I might be reading too much into this myself, but from memory there are only two classes that don't get proficiency in ALL simple weapons, which are the Wizard and the Commoner.
Making splash weapons count as simple weapons in terms of proficiency is probably to counter the fact that they have made some relatively potent alchemical splash weapons (at least compared to the original set of options), and might not want peasant armies lobbing several d6s worth of explosives each round. Although they could take a pellet grenade as their one proficient simple weapon, I suppose.
Justifying such an army's existence and where they get their funding from is another matter.
As for the wizard, he's usually got better things to do with his standard actions than throw a grenade - unless he's out of spells :) I believe every other class gets simple weapons proficiency, so making splash weapons a simple weapon rather than an ambiguously defined non-weapon makes sense to me.
Given I'm currently playing an alchemist in a war campaign who has been making and lobbing fuse and pellet grenades, the rule we run with is that yes, they count as splash weapons, but I can only add my Int to one of the damage types done by the pellet grenade.
I would love to be able to masterwork alchemical items, however as written there are no rules for it. You'd probably have to discuss that with your GM or players and house rule it in.
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