|
Note: My answers are all "in my opinion" as well as how I usually run it:
No, the Imp is not invisible. Why should he be? He is not a Sprite, who has invisible as their normal state, he just can go invisible. The box is no threat, and, until the PCs interact with him, he doesn't consider them, or any other of the Countess's minions, as a threat.
And, no, attacking the box wouldn't render him visible (caveat: if the box is actually a mimic, it would break invisibility; but attacking or attempting to damage an unattended item shouldn't, IMO, break invisibility), although using the box as a weapon to attack someone would break invisibility.
To be honest, unless you have some min/maxed combat monster, the Imp should be able to handle being on the receiving end for one round. Of course, if you have one of those 2d6+9 greatsword types, or nastier, then all bets are off. Especially since that same PC would be doing 1d4+6 with the dagger, which would also be a "bad thing"(tm).
Then again, last time I saw that encounter played out, the PCs grabbed the box, and ran, leaving the imp behind alive, almost uninjured, and trying to chase them down. As the GM, I found it amusing enough to let them get away, so I had Zarta step out and remonstrate with the imp....
|
|
the Imp is not mentioned in the boxed text description of the room. What the PCs see when they enter the room. Why isn't he?
and
If the judge running this starts the Imp invisible, is he running the encounter wrong?
** spoiler omitted **
Because it is good flavor to add, rather than being static every time the players play the scenario.
No, but I think it makes it much more difficult than it should be. Remember that these are virgin, or near virgin, 1st level PCs, so, maybe, one of them might have some chalk powder or such, but they aren't really going to be equipped to deal with invisibility at this level.
2nd round, the iomp should not, IMO, get an AoO, he is still flatfooted until attacked or affected by the PCs, so flatfooted until they grab the box and his place in the Initiative order comes up again.
3rd round, similar to the PCs I was GMing for.
4th round, much of a muchness, really.
Were you in Vegas for this? I had a couple of new players, one new to RPGs, one just new to the area, when I ran this. I thought I didn't do an AoO, but my players did attack the Imp, before they managed to grab the box.
Typos apoil my day.
|
I agree with Kinevon, the description of his motivation makes me see him as angrily smashing the box, no reason to be invisible.
Of course, if you have one of those 2d6+9 greatsword types, or nastier, then all bets are off. Especially since that same PC would be doing 1d4+6 with the dagger, which would also be a "bad thing"(tm).
That's exactly what I had this weekend, running this for the first time. I ran him as visible and unconcerned with the PCs when they entered. The greatsword fighter acted first, ran in, and had the imp to single digit hit points in one shot. He bounced around a bit, but as soon as he attacked, the fighter hit him again. I'll have to see how that combat goes without that sort of damage-monkey.
|
|
I ran it last weekend and I had the Imp start invisible. Why? because they get it at will, the scenario did not specify whether or not he started with it going, I liked the visual of the invisible Imp throwing the box around the room trying to break it, etc. My players still defeated the Imp in two or three rounds and no one, aside from the Imp, was severally injured.
If someone official thinks I ran it wrong I would love to hear.
Also I do not believe that I am the GM from nosig's story.
|
|
kinevon - where I played: ** spoiler omitted **
Fortunately, I have run all 3 of them, multiple times, and had all three of them in my bag. The only thing I was missing was the one flip-map, if there is one, for the Pelican warehouse.
I had the Ambush Sites pages in my binder, and we were able to make the maps on my blank flip-mats, so no problems.
Then again, I was playing another scenario on Saturday, and suddenly, to my surprise, there we were, in that same damn alley, getting ambushed. Oy.
|
|
I ran it last weekend and I had the Imp start invisible. Why? because they get it at will, the scenario did not specify whether or not he started with it going, I liked the visual of the invisible Imp throwing the box around the room trying to break it, etc. My players still defeated the Imp in two or three rounds and no one, aside from the Imp, was severally injured.
If someone official thinks I ran it wrong I would love to hear.
Also I do not believe that I am the GM from nosig's story.
Graywulfe? are you from St. Louis?
I played it at Game Nite there... perhaps it was a different time when I played it? I have played it more than once (I try to start all my PCs in First Steps).If your my judge you'll remember my "Childlike" halfling climbing out of the ally during the ambush to the roof of one of the buildings... and shouting down into the ally "Oh no Mrs Peterson!" (the PC has a Dolly) "Here I am HOME ALONE and the bad men are in the ally! What ever will I do?!! there's got to be a brick around here somewhere! OR a paint can!"
Nah I live in Wisconsin and I ran this in SE Minnesota.
|
I do think attacking the box will turn the imp visible again. It's an attack, even if the target isn't living. If attacking a box doesn't turn something visible, then what about attacking a construct? I'd say any direct attack would do it, regardless of target. So the imp should probably start visible, unless he hears the PCs coming and decides to hide from them, instead of continuing to attack the box.
|
|
The text above Kreuvus' stat block says
The imp Kreuvus is enraged and totally out of control. The creature desperately wants inside the box and throws it around the room hoping to smash the thing open.
Since invisible isn't his natural state, but one he has to choose to invoke, I can't come up with any reason he would be invisible when the PCs enter.
*shrug*
Director of Game Development
|
I was just a freelancer when I wrote this (and Mark did an excellent job developing it), but I wanted to let y’all know how this played out when I’ve ran it.
But first, I’d like to comment on something upthread about read-aloud boxed text. The reason that text never references monsters is because that text is there to solely give a PC’s view of a room or location. It never assumes action. It never assumes creatures. It also never assumes from which direction the PCs entered the room or location. It sets the scene.
Now, onto nosig’s questions in the OP (according to how I’ve ran it in the past):
Does the Imp start the encounter invisible?
I’ve ran it both ways at first when I playtested it, and things didn’t end up too differently both times. However, it would have been mentioned in Kreuvus’ Before Combat tactics if he would have started invisible. My thinking behind that is that he’s not on the defensive and isn’t normally/naturally invisible, so he hasn’t bothered using that spell-like ability. In addition, I’ve found from running this with other groups that having him be visible is a great way to give the option for roleplaying and diplomacy/trickery for this encounter.
Does "attacking" a locked box make someone visible?
I’ve ran it as he’s not neccesarrily attacking the box each time (because he’s already found out he can’t damage it well enough with his natural weapons), but he is throwing it around in rage trying to smash the thing. I’ve always ruled that since he’s not attacking a creature by throwing the box, that the box simply becomes invisible after it leaves his possession. I’ve only ran this once with him starting invisible (for my home group while playtesting) and the visual I was going for was that some disembodied force was flinging around the box.
Hope some of this insight helps.
|
|
Look at the other scenarios you have run. Monsters are almost never listed in the boxed room description. That's for the GM to make up as he see's fit.
Would I have the Imp invisible? No. Would I tell another GM that he was running it wrong if he had the Imp invisible? No.
Agreed. That's the way I ran it.
Just to toss this out there.
My wife and I have run this 3 times, with 3 seperate sets of caracters.
All 3 times the Imp was Invis. (3 different GMs)
|
|
ha ha, so not what I thought this discussion would be about.
So I was really expecting to hear someone complain about that evenly matched party at lvl 1.
|
|
so, when you run it, is the Imp invisible? and about how many times have you run it?ha ha, so not what I thought this discussion would be about.
** spoiler omitted **
played it twice, never run it. I am new at GMing as I have only run one encounter so far. I just started playing in April.
I had 2 different GMs for this and neither time was the Imp invisible or difficult.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I generally run it so that the imp is visible to start. This allows them to try and talk to the imp, if they wish, before initiating combat. Generally I have the imp go invisible (with an annoyed snort) as soon as it takes actual damage. Anything that doesn't pass it's DR it just ignores.
Once the imp goes invisible, I let almost any creative solution work. The best was when a couple PCs used the bed sheets as a net and caught the imp in them. They then proceeded to kick the imp through the sheet until he gave up out of annoyance (only one character had the strength to hit 6 damage on a 1d3+STR roll).
The flavor and intention is the important thing here, you want to give a good idea of the Chelish leader as well as expose them to challenges in combat such as damage reduction and invisibility.
That said, if you do have a damage monster in the party, you might want to allow the imp to pop into invisibility in a surprise round. It will give you the information that an imp is the servant without ending the fight too quickly.
|
|
Played it once and ran it once. Both times the Imp started out visible, but quickly went invisible. However, neither time was there really any problem dealing with it.
Related to what Spellbane said:
** spoiler omitted **
You need to go back and reread that section. There is a Perception roll that lets you see them. The Sense Motive roll lets you "feel like you are being watched" Success with either means you are not surprised and can act in the surprise round.
I've been through this scenario three times as a player. I know the imp started visible in at least two of them. Having him start invisible limits any attempt to resolve the situation diplomatically. Or in the only time I've seen this resolved without violence, with Intimidate, as follows.
First player opens the door. Pre-gen gunslinger goes second and, gun in hand, moves into the room stopping 10 feet from the Imp. Points the pistol at him and makes an Intimidation attempt. Borrowing from "Silverado"; "The paracountess gave me permission to kill you (true). Now I don't want to kill you and you don't want to be dead. Hand it over."
DC 10 base + 3 HD + 1 Wis = 14.
+4 skill + 4 larger + d20(16) = Success !
The GM ruled that handing over the box is not an action that would endanger the Imp.
And in one of the other times, it was the greatsword wielding character with the 18 strength rolling boxcars that ended the encounter, when the other characters could only nickel and dime the Imp.
|
RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
|
I ran this the other night for my wife and a couple of new-to-PFS friends.
They made a token effort to ask nicely, then my wife's oracle cast a successful command: "Drop it."
Then the pregen Kyra walks over to the imp, the imp drops it on his turn, and Kyra picks up the box and walks away.
As the party walked nonchalantly out of the bedroom and through the room with the desk (carrying the box, from which a frustrated imp was dangling furiously), the question arose of just how far the imp would go to get it back: would he (or could he) leave the house and chase them around town?
I decided that Zarta was still at her desk, so she stood up, glared at the imp, and then the imp got a scared look on his face, gulped once, and walked timidly back into the bedroom.
Venture-Captain, Ireland—Belfast
|
For me as the imp is so lost in the attempt to smash the box that he ignores the party I would infer that he was not invisible. He surely could be and the author certainly could have mentioned it as a tactic. For constancy i'd run it as starting 100% visible.
I do feel that starting the encounter invisible makes it longer and harder and the party might want some of it's resources for the final encounter.