No, my counter argument is that you haven't given a single scenario not involving paranoid anarchist BS.
People made the exact same arguments about fingerprinting and photographic records and Bertillonage.
They were wrong. Just like you are wrong.
Seriously. What possible benefit would your mythical sinister government agency gain from determining that your mother had a mutated breast cancer gene that would come anywhere near justifying the hundreds of thousands of dollars running all those tests would cost?
I find your faith in government's righteousness and efficiency to be amazing.
There is really no point in engaging someone who thinks that my observation of the fact that governments some times abuse their powers makes me mentally ill.
If you can't imagine any way that the government could ever misuse the vast amount of information contained in DNA that strikes me a a huge failure of imagination.
I don't have to anticipate every way the government could abuse personal information about someone for them to have a right to be secure in there person papers and effects. The burden is supposed to be on the government to actually get a warrant for things like medical records. It's pretty easy to get a search warrant, but evidently that's too much to ask. You seem to see it differently, and you seem to trust the government not to waste money or abuse power. I'm skeptical of power especially law enforcement power.
You seem to think that people in the government wouldn't waste tax payer money. I think that notion is at odds with the facts, but that makes me delusional in your view.
Your blind faith in government power is incomprehensible to me.
I don't think this is something that can be debated very well. Its dna. Its not easy to replicate or conveniently place upon something- even if such things were possible, its FAR easier to do with fingerprints.. Unless you are going to crusade against fingerprinting as a violation of privacy, there's not much to discuss.
I suppose that would be true if there were no difference in the amount of information in finger prints and DNA, but that's hardly the case.
I don't think this is something that can be debated very well. Its dna. Its not easy to replicate or conveniently place upon something- even if such things were possible, its FAR easier to do with fingerprints.. Unless you are going to crusade against fingerprinting as a violation of privacy, there's not much to discuss.I suppose that would be true if there were no difference in the amount of information in finger prints and DNA, but that's hardly the case.
actually there really isn't that much more. Prints are already pretty damning, dna isn't going to make you less guilty. It CAN exonerate you though, which is my point.
actually there really isn't that much more. Prints are already pretty damning, dna isn't going to make you less guilty. It CAN exonerate you though, which is my point.I don't think this is something that can be debated very well. Its dna. Its not easy to replicate or conveniently place upon something- even if such things were possible, its FAR easier to do with fingerprints.. Unless you are going to crusade against fingerprinting as a violation of privacy, there's not much to discuss.I suppose that would be true if there were no difference in the amount of information in finger prints and DNA, but that's hardly the case.He's arguing that the police are going to run hundreds of thousands of dollars of genetic sequencing and analysis on every sample taken from every arrested individual.
As opposed to what the law in question and certainly every other law enabling it will do which is allow a sample to be taken and sequenced for simple identification purposes (which I admit I can't think of the proper term) and then stick the results in a file like they do with fingerprints and mug shots.
That's a lie.
I said this was subject to abuse. I don't see where I argued "that the police are going to run hundreds of thousands of dollars of genetic sequencing and analysis on every sample taken from every arrested individual."
Perhaps you could show me where I said that.
Abuse of power is rarely universal. Police don't brutalize everyone they come into contact with. That doesn't mean that police brutality is not a problem.
It's also not as though genetic testing all costs hundreds of thousands of dollars.
DNA Test for Rare Disorders Becomes More Routine as Prices Plunge
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/06/05-4
Hey that government was not elected in that jurisdiction, why cant they stich to killing people at home where they have jurisdiction, a much smaller micro example of the problem of american illegal wars abroad, pure government folly.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2013/04/17/quebec-soccer-assoc iation-forbids-turbans.html
Fearful Bias plus legislative power equals human rights abuse.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2013/04/17/quebec-soccer-assoc iation-forbids-turbans.html
Fearful Bias plus legislative power equals human rights abuse.
This address isn't working for me.
This address isn't working for me.http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2013/04/17/quebec-soccer-assoc iation-forbids-turbans.html
Fearful Bias plus legislative power equals human rights abuse.
Of course, it's not really a "government folly" issue, since I don't think the Quebec Soccer Association is a part of government.
Thanks.
What's the rationale for the ruling? Do they claim this is a safety issue? If so is there any supporting evidence?
I also assume the QSA has no government authority, but this strikes me as a wrong headed decision.
actually there really isn't that much more. Prints are already pretty damning, dna isn't going to make you less guilty. It CAN exonerate you though, which is my point.I don't think this is something that can be debated very well. Its dna. Its not easy to replicate or conveniently place upon something- even if such things were possible, its FAR easier to do with fingerprints.. Unless you are going to crusade against fingerprinting as a violation of privacy, there's not much to discuss.I suppose that would be true if there were no difference in the amount of information in finger prints and DNA, but that's hardly the case.He's arguing that the police are going to run hundreds of thousands of dollars of genetic sequencing and analysis on every sample taken from every arrested individual.
As opposed to what the law in question and certainly every other law enabling it will do which is allow a sample to be taken and sequenced for simple identification purposes (which I admit I can't think of the proper term) and then stick the results in a file like they do with fingerprints and mug shots.
I don't think he is saying that per se, just pointing out How it can be abused. But I argue that there isn't much more abuse that can occur that can't already be done cheaper and easier with prints.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/story/2013/04/17/quebec-soccer-assoc iation-forbids-turbans.html
Fearful Bias plus legislative power equals human rights abuse.
Citizen Lightminder, here is how you link--
[url=web address}Say something funny or cool[/url}
--except that those }s are ]s.
Give a man a fish/teach a man to fish, Comrade Jeff.
Of course, it's not really a "government folly" issue, since I don't think the Quebec Soccer Association is a part of government.
Thanks.
What's the rationale for the ruling? Do they claim this is a safety issue? If so is there any supporting evidence?
I also assume the QSA has no government authority, but this strikes me as a wrong headed decision.
[Puts hand over eyes]
I'm guessing, Quebecois bigots following the lead of their Francophone bigot-brothers and banning Muslim and Sikh headgear in the name of secularism!
Of course, it's not really a "government folly" issue, since I don't think the Quebec Soccer Association is a part of government.
Thanks.
What's the rationale for the ruling? Do they claim this is a safety issue? If so is there any supporting evidence?
I also assume the QSA has no government authority, but this strikes me as a wrong headed decision.
[Puts hand over eyes]
I'm guessing, Quebecois bigots following the lead of their Francophone bigot-brothers and banning Muslim and Sikh headgear in the name of secularism!
unfortunately, despite the open minded nature of most Canadians, Quebec can be a hard place to get along due to some bigotry in unexpected places, primarily due to the francophone nature of the place.
I had a well-travelled, out-of-town black friend who used to visit me in Boston. He once told me that there wasn't any other city in America that he could visit and know he would invariably be called a "n+!$~#" at least once before he left.
I'm sure the Quebecois are just as not nice as everybody else, but I don't think I'd go reaching for Francophonism as an explanation.
I had a well-travelled, out-of-town black friend who used to visit me in Boston. He once told me that there wasn't any other city in America that he could visit and know he would invariably be called a "n~$#*%" at least once before he left.
I'm sure the Quebecois are just as not nice as everybody else, but I don't think I'd go reaching for Francophonism as an explanation.
are you talking about Boston or Quebec re: being called n%!&+~? I'm confused.
I am basing My statement on my good friends experiences as an American expatriate living in quebec. She is mixed-black white herself, and has had an interesting experience there. She still loves the place thOugh, so that's saying something. But the francophones there can go out of their way to make the anglos uncomfortable sometimes.
Woops, I meant in Boston.
My only point being: the US (and, Canada, too, actually) are full of anglophonic bigots, don't need to go pickin' on the Frenchies for their parlez-vous.
Woops, I meant in Boston.
My only point being: the US (and, Canada, too, actually) are full of anglophonic bigots, don't need to go pickin' on the Frenchies for their parlez-vous.
I'm not sure one has anything to do with the other. I'm quite ignorant about soccer and such, but didn't France criminalize some religious expressions like burkas?
In any case, I don't know if the QSA is banning this on cultural or safety grounds, but I fail to see how a turban is a safety issue in soccer. If this is a case of citing safety as an excuse for bigotry this really rubs me the wrong way.
I'm not sure one has anything to do with the other. I'm quite ignorant about soccer and such, but didn't France criminalize some religious expressions like burkas?Woops, I meant in Boston.
My only point being: the US (and, Canada, too, actually) are full of anglophonic bigots, don't need to go pickin' on the Frenchies for their parlez-vous.
That was what I was alluding to.
Privacy group calls NSA Verizon surveillance illegal
Group asks Congress to "immediately hold oversight hearings" to probe whether the Justice Department and a secret court followed federal privacy laws.
Penn. Zoning Board Orders Dad to Tear Down Tree House
June 7, 2013
SELINSGROVE, Pa. - It looks like a little girl Pennsylvania won’t be getting the tree house she wants for her 11th birthday.
Penn. Zoning Board Orders Dad to Tear Down Tree HouseJune 7, 2013
SELINSGROVE, Pa. - It looks like a little girl Pennsylvania won’t be getting the tree house she wants for her 11th birthday.
I dunno if this belongs here per se...I thought zoning boards had little to do with the actual government? Someone inform me.
Penn. Zoning Board Orders Dad to Tear Down Tree HouseI dunno if this belongs here per se...I thought zoning boards had little to do with the actual government? Someone inform me.June 7, 2013
SELINSGROVE, Pa. - It looks like a little girl Pennsylvania won’t be getting the tree house she wants for her 11th birthday.
In my experience zoning boards are elected or appointed, and they often have broad powers relating to creating and interpreting zoning laws and regulations. This seems to vary significantly by region.
Anonymous Activist Who Championed Rape Victim Raided by FBI SWAT team
Hm. Damn interesting. Thank you BT.
BT beat me to the Steubenville Anonymous dude. Drat.
Edward Snowden identified as source of NSA leaks
This guy is so epically boned.
The child was questioned for more than two hours before his mother was called, she said, adding that he uncharacteristically wet his pants during the episode. The boy is 5 — “all bugs and frogs and cowboys,” his mother said.
Edward Snowden identified as source of NSA leaks
This guy is so epically boned.
I just posted this in another thread, but BT still beat me to it!
James Bovard: A Brief History of IRS Political Targeting
One survey found that 75% of IRS respondents felt entitled to deceive or lie to Congress.
Edward Snowden identified as source of NSA leaks
This guy is so epically boned.
I just posted this in another thread, but BT still beat me to it!
Dad's taking a nap so I'm catching up on news.
Edward Snowden identified as source of NSA leaks
This guy is so epically boned.
Well, if he's hanging out in Hong Kong--which the Cato and Fraser Institutes rank as the third freest place on earth (above you Yankee paper tigers, I might add)--then he might have a chance.
New Jersey Considering Law to Allow Warrantless Search of Cellphones After Crash
"To me, is it any different from an open bottle of liquor?" he said. "It may be an issue. But keep in mind that operating a vehicle is a privilege, not a right."
Well, if he's hanging out in Hong Kong--which the Cato and Fraser Institutes rank as the third freest place on earth (above you Yankee paper tigers, I might add)--then he might have a chance.Edward Snowden identified as source of NSA leaks
This guy is so epically boned.
I'd be curious to understand their metrics better.
New Jersey Detective Charged With Murder In Connection to Road Rage Shooting
Speaking of NJ law enforcers.....
NSA May Have More Ability To Process the Data it Taps Than Previously Admitted
Boundless Informant: the NSA's secret tool to track global surveillance data
Revealed: The NSA's powerful tool for cataloguing global surveillance data – including figures on US collection