As many of you know, I'm likely going to be roleplaying a sorcerer/conman/Razmiran priest named Nives in the coming weeks.
At level 6 he has a Bluff modifier of +36 to lie, a Diplomacy modifier of +23 to make friends, and a Disguise modifier of +27 to hide his identity--making him something of a master manipulator.
The problem? I'm not terribly charismatic or well spoken in real life. Some days I'm not even all that creative (though I do have my moments), which is why I think this character is going to be such a fun challenge.
I was hoping to get some advice on playing such a character and having it come off like it should. What are the big and little things that I could have the character do to really feel like a manipulative conman? Perhaps you could recommend some inspiration material?
How do I scheme and manipulate and use my abilities while also being a (team-work oriented) adventurer? Without losing the verisimilitude?
Help.
Pick a charismatic character from a moive that you think is pretty cool or even a specific actor
and use them as a base , put on your impression of their accent and just channel what comes to mind
e.g. You could use Christopher Walken as the core and go from there as he's got a very distinctive mannerisms and voice.
It's much easier to copy something you know very well and twist it, than it is to make something up from scratch especially if your personally not like that.
The character, not the player is the one that has to be good at conning people. All the player should have to do is get his general point across. I am not saying don't RP though.
If you really want to be in character then you should decide how you want your conman to work. Some conman directly lie to people. Some only tell half-truths, and some don't even do that. They just put the object(which may not be a physical thing) in front of you, and use it to manipulate you.
Captain Jack Sparrow was a pretty good con man, mostly because he was a quick thinker.
I would play such a character as always having confidence or at least pretending to be confident. People don't like to believe in people who don't believe in themselves. Keep the lies simple if possible. Everything you add to the lie is another thing to keep track of. Be generous and flattering when using diplomacy. People want to know you can do for them, not what they can do for you.
PS:I do speak well in real life either so someone else might come along with better pointers.
PS2:How did you get a 36? I am not going to tell you that you broke rule X, Y, and Z. I won't even comment on it. I am just curious. Feel free to shoot me a PM if you are worried about the thread derailing.
If you're not that fast on your feet, maybe you could roleplay him as if he were actually helpful and then backfill a manipulative motive you come up with between sessions.
I'd recommend watching Dirty Rotten Scoundrels for inspiration. It features two very distinct conmen that should give you some inspiration for how such a character could work.
Wraithstrike: Here's the breakdown for you...
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BLUFF
10 mask of stony demeanor*
06 ranks
06 charisma modifier
03 viper familiar
03 skill focus
03 class skill
03 circlet of persuasion*
02 silver tongued
02 deceitful
01 trait bonus
36 TOTAL
DIPLOMACY
06 ranks
06 charisma modifier
05 living garments*
03 class skill
03 circlet of persuasion*
02 silver tongued
01 trait bonus
23 TOTAL
DISGUISE
10 hat of disguise
06 ranks
06 charisma modifier
03 circlet of persuasion
02 deceitful
27 TOTAL
* non-stacking competence bonuses
Note that I've rolled the circlet of persuasion, hat of disguise, and mask of stone into a single slot item (paying for the increased costs as appropriate).
Gad from the Worldwound Gambit might be a reasonable inspiration.
Gad from the Worldwound Gambit might be a reasonable inspiration.
That a novel, module, or what?
What is a mask of stone? I might need one if it is an official item. I see that is what I missed that in my attempt to do the same thing.
Seems I got the name wrong. The "mask of stony demeanor" is from the Advanced Race Guide.
Could try the wild west style snake oil peddler.
"You sir look to be a marvelous man in possession of astute observation (The man just happens to be the city captain of the guard). Why I'd bet my mother's glass eye that you, above any other man in existence would realize the worth of this fabulous concoction in my left hand here. With this stupendous brew, you will not only increase your mental capacity to superhuman levels but your strength and stamina will be unmatched in the field of battle.
What must you pay for such a powerful potion you may ask? Why, only a document allowing me and my fellow trustworthy salesmen a document allowing us to pass those pesky check in points without inspection. After all good sir, who could possibly be more trustworthy than yours truly?"
Or if that is not subtle enough for your liking you could focus on the disguise aspect you have available.
*Dressed as a soldier from a different city, ones that prestigious but far away enough to make contacting them irritating* "I am captain guise of the royal city of Aldera. I was told that you'd have a document prepared for our prince for bypassing inspection? What do you mean you don't have it prepared? Your superiors will hear of this and then there will be hell to pay! That's right, you better write it up right now. Good. I won't tell your superiors about this lack of aptitude this time, just make sure that in the future you are better prepared."
Or, as mentioned above, you could try for the simple lie.
"Captain, Sir! It appears that a man has been viscously assaulted blocks away in the underdark district!" *The captain rushes out of his room past the plainly disguised con man and the con man forges a document allowing him to bypass inspections*
There are quite a few ways to handle a con character. Those are just a few small suggestions. I'm just a player and never DM'd but it sounds like a fun character.
Could try the wild west style snake oil peddler.
Unfortunately, another player in the party already has dibs on the concept with his halfling saurian shaman druid.
Seems I got the name wrong. The "mask of stony demeanor" is from the Advanced Race Guide.
Nice find. I can't believe it is only 500 gp. I will probably have to pay more for it if I can get my old GM to run, but it will be worth it.
I know, right?
How does the triceratops play out in your group RD?
How does the triceratops play out in your group RD?
Well, that's no ordinary triceratops. That's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered companion creature you ever set eyes on! Look, that creature's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer! He'll do you up a treat, mate. I'm warning you! He's got huge, sharp... er... He can charge about. Look at the bones!
I can only think of Professor Harold Hill from The Music Man.
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I'd recommend watching Dirty Rotten Scoundrels for inspiration. It features two very distinct conmen that should give you some inspiration for how such a character could work.
^That's the first thing that came to my mind as well. There is also a Dicaprio movie that was based on a real life conman who got away with some amazing capers - so much so that I think the FBI or CIA eventually employed him. I think it was "Catch me if you can".
If I may be so bold, Kobold Quarterly Issue #17 has a fantastic article on classic cons and swindles -and the mechanics behind them -called "The Right Way to Do Wrong." I also hear the author is strikingly handsome and incredibly self-important. =-)
How does the triceratops play out in your group RD?Well, that's no ordinary triceratops. That's the most foul, cruel, and bad-tempered companion creature you ever set eyes on! Look, that creature's got a vicious streak a mile wide! It's a killer! He'll do you up a treat, mate. I'm warning you! He's got huge, sharp... er... He can charge about. Look at the bones!
What does "he will do you up a treat" mean?
Means he's going to eat you.
LOL! We become a Scooby Snack!
I like captian Mel from Firefly. Watch the movie (serenity!). In it, at one point the man from the government calls Mel out on one of his bluff's:
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: [the Operative has politely asked Mal to return River] You have to open with payment.
The Operative: That is a trap. I offer money, you'll play the man of honor and take umbrage; I ask you to do what is right and you'll play the brigand. I have no stomach for games.
Basicly, keep people on their toes. Twist the facts to suit your own intentions. Insist you're always right and that they're mistaken. And when all else fails, be bold faced when you get caught in a bluff:
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: Do you want to run this ship?
Jayne Cobb: Yes!
Capt. Malcolm Reynolds: [caught off guard] Well... you can't...
Not as easily done as said, but it's what I'd be going for. If done right it can not only be effective, but hilarious for those around you who know the truth.
considering a crafting spell is 'stone shape' ... I think it means literally. Might take some disguise checks to hide the fact that you're wearing it, but luckily he has a high disguise.
Plus I've reflavored it so it doesn't necessarily do that anymore. It merely "hides emotions."
As many of you know, I'm likely going to be roleplaying a sorcerer/conman/Razmiran priest named Nives in the coming weeks.
I was hoping to get some advice on playing such a character and having it come off like it should. What are the big and little things that I could have the character do to really feel like a manipulative conman? Perhaps you could recommend some inspiration material?
How do I scheme and manipulate and use my abilities while also being a (team-work oriented) adventurer? Without losing the verisimilitude?
Help.
Have you seen the TV show Leverage? It's a good intro to a conman that joins with a party. You've got your fighter (Eliot), your wizard (Hardison), your traditional thief (Parker), and a non-criminal type that is a good parallel for a paladin or cleric type (Nathan). Sophie Devereaux is the conman, and she is actually a solid anchor for the group.
One of the only things that I would suggest to keep the party on your side is to make them part of your cons. Don't leave them out, but give them roles to play to reinforce the scam. This gives them the chance to RP some, and to reap some actual in-game benefit from the RP, namely the loot you swindle!
Remember to not con your party mates :)
aka: don't be a dick.
Interesting character concept from an RP perspective, RD. Just one question: how will this character contribute in combat.
Interesting character concept from an RP perspective, RD. Just one question: how will this character contribute in combat.
Until he can get better combat spells at later levels, he will use blindness/deafness to blind enemies, magic missile to damage them, and major image to delay/distract/confuse/route/otherwise control them.
Oh. Its that guy. 'Nuf said.
I'd research the classic cons and see what you can do with them. They should give you plenty of direction to work with, once you have ideas about how your character is going to approach a situation, the roleplay should fall in right behind it.
As above, classic cons etc, also make up other personas to use in conjunction with cons.
And often a good loan sharking is good enough, or side street gambling.
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Leverage and also Hustle are good TV shows to mine for inspiration.
The real problem I see in this is that a con often takes quite some time to set up; you need props, actors, and need to meet marks multiple times to get everything working. Of course, magic makes all this a lot easier.
But almost all con artists on TV use a lot of flashbacks to show how the con was done.