Amora Game looks to try something different with the adventurer class. Developing a class that has a theme, and a bit of “luck” with it, but able to add a function of this or that from another class.
It could be great. It could be mush.
We need you to decide.
Now available...and it is free.
Who doesn't like free?
I'm not sure if you've explored some of the 3.5 splat books but Complete Scoundrel had some luck mechanics in it I believe. (Note: Haven't read your product yet)
I'm not sure if the writer did glace at that. I will bring it to his attention.
I'll be checking this out in a bit!
Note that Complete Scoundrel is probably not OGL, so it might be best for him to not look at it :)
We uploaded beta test round two. It should be uploaded to the new doc. If it is not, sent me a short message and I can email it to you.
(Mind the editing, it's not awful, but our editor has been working long hours this past week.)
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YAY! I love play testing. Just a few ideas on what I am seeing from the first few mechanical bits.
Skills: Personally, I wouldn't mind them gaining 6+Int modifier for skills, but even more interestingly I would like to see them not have a list of class skills at all, and instead have all of the skills in pathfinder arranged in groupings like you have under skill training and allowing players to simply pick two groups. The skills from these groups would then end up becoming their class skills.
Saves: As far as saves go I think they should have all good saves with their trained conditioning giving them a choice of effects that they are able to remove from themselves. (Basically, a re-skinned version of Paladin's Mercy effect but minus the Lay on Hands and can only be usable on the Adventurer themselves.)
Well, that is what I got for now. I'll see if I can think of something else.
Edit: Reading ahead I see the untrained conditioning giving a +2 bonus to the untrained save. personally, I think with the all good saves you could put something similar to a fighter's bravery bonus against fear or a similar bonus against mind effecting effects in its place.
Edit 2: Also, a question the Divine Arcana ability. Can the user choose to apply 1st level powers from sub-domains and wild-blooded sorcerer bloodlines in addition to normal domains and bloodlines?
Edit 3: Sorry if I sound a little presumptuous in my suggestions being accepted. I can never tell how I come off in my typing.
Hi Kitsune Knight,
Skills:
6+Int modifier was discussed late last night. That is in discussion. No class skills, but two packages....That is a very interesting concept. I will see how the author feels about it. I will bring it to his attention tomorrow eve when we meet again.
Saves: We did discuss this, we wanted there to be a bit of "flaw", I guess would be the term, to balance out the two good saves. But it is something we can bring up again. A few others mentioned this as well.
Edit - Interesting idea.
Edit 2 - we considered sub domains and domains one in the same, so yes, we will add the detail more in. Same applies to wild-blooded. We will double check the mechanics, but should fall in line as one in the same.
Edit 3 - You are perfectly fine. It's beta test. People should know we are open to the ideas and suggestions, and to learn the awful. That is why we have released it so broadly. We love the feedback you have given.
- Thank you 1000 fold for the feedback. Keep it coming.
*As a cool note, between this site, and another store we are a part of, we have had over 110 beta documents downloaded. That's pretty cool we feel*
Also, you seem to be missing a 19th level ability which probably needs to be addressed, as I understand it Pathfinder classes usually gain some form of class abilities at every level to mitigate the effect of dead levels. Personally, I would have an improved version of the Untrained Conditioning ability. Most likely moving the bonus to the untrained save from a +2 to +4 and simply have it not stack with the 7th level ability. (or have some improved version of the fighter's bravery ability or increase the bonus against mind effects, or even better have it improve to an immunity to fear/mind effects should you choose to go with my idea.)
Also, another question, does the +1 bonus to base attack from combat training only effect the BAB for 5th level, or does that +1 get applied over the entire base attack progression from then on out? Basically, asking the difference from the BAB increasing from +3 to +4 at 5th level but retaining normal progression from their on out, ex. retaining the +4 bonus at 6th, or does it apply that +1 bonus over the rest of the progression, ex. increases the bonus at 6th level from +4 to +5 and the bonus from 7th level from +5 to +6/+1 etc.
Honestly, I would prefer to see the latter as I personally don't see much advantage to a one off plus one at that level as being worth it, especially when I can pick up a first level domain power and a sorcerer bloodline power at the same level.
Another question, how does the cross-training mastery capstone ability work in conjunction with the Divine Arcana ability? It says you would be able to trade out all of your abilities for those granted by the class in your cross-training, but with Divine Arcana your abilities are coming from two different classes. Do we simply choose which class where going to be at that point, either cleric or sorcerer? If that is the case you either end up being a Sorcerer with better saving throws, hit dice, and base attack progression to go along with your not-needing-to-prepare-spells full casting progression while on the cleric side you essentially just end up being a normal cleric in the end (which begs the question as to why not just play a cleric to begin with).
I do not think that was your intent, so some clarification should probably be in order. (Personally, I would re-investigate the capstone ability as the Cross-Training mastery ends up in situations above and the +2 bonus to all rolls seems a little weak compared to other capstone abilities, but I may simply be undervaluing the latter.)
Oooo. All good stuff.
Let me get with the author and define your answers better then myself.
Keep them coming!!!
Actually, now that I thought about that divine arcana ability becomes a bigger problem in relation to cross-training as domains are picked up by several different classes. can you become a Cleric? Druid? Inquisitor? The options for it are wide ranging, and the player doesn't really get much for it in relation to simply taking the class in question. Personally, I would prefer it if that simply had the ability to pick up a third ability from guild training, an advanced ability, or taking a master version of the other abilities. For example, Master Combat Training could net you the Fighter's Weapon Training 4 as well as his Armor Mastery Ability.
P.S.-I'm surprised that I seem to be the only one commenting on this. Usually people are all over these sorts of things...
Also, are their any plans to add cross-training abilities from other classes than what is listed? Such as a Monk, Alchemist, Gunslinger, or Paladin?
1. 19th Level was initially left blank. He is working on a luck ability, but kind of like the idea of the Improved Untrained Conditioning once brought it up.
2. +1 to base attack actually may be replaced with either +1 to attack and damage, or it may change the whole base attack progression from what it is to a fighter’s attack progression. Ie, from at 5th level your base attack becomes +5 and progresses accordingly with the fighter chart per level.
3. Cross Training Mastery capstone is already in middle of a revison, in regards to how Divine Arcana will be involved. The initial assumption would be one or the other. But the defense of the cleric aspect, along the druid aspect. So that brings us another question of could you be a druid at this point.
Which could also be said for the wilderness training.
Divine Arcana has raised a bit of questions due to mechanics (not just from you ). Which is good, that is why we have beta testing.
There is leaning on revising it to the oracles mysteries and revelations instead of domains. As it seems to flow more consistent and in line with a sorcerer’s bloodline.
We did discuss over the phone today about alchemist and gunslinger. We were trying to stick with the base book, and the advanced players guide.
For the gunslinger, one can just take Amateur gunslinger and corresponding feats for deeds, gunsmith, etc. So this will be passed on.
An “alchemist training” is on the table.
A "monastery training" has been discussed, but how such will work, is still in question.
Paladin and inquisitioner “training” is possible. Not sure as of yet.
We plan on having a round 3 up by Sunday or a day or two before GenCon.
(give or take on his schedule to write and revise.)
Personally, I would go with the luck +1 bonus to attack and damage as a replacement for the +1 to base attack. Also, I would drop the bonus feat and allow an adventurer use his adventurer level in place of fighter levels for the purposes of qualifying for feats. (basically, opening up weapon focus, weapon specialization, and the greater versions.)
I think you (and everyone) will like the round 3 changes. I was able to get a sneak peak at it last night. Looks pretty good.
Has the updated version been put up yet? If so where can we get it?
Not yet. Only major changes so far are....
Skill ranks 6+ per level
Capstone Cross Mastery is deleted. Another is being created in place.
Capstone Legendary is now +4
There was a schedule change for us, with GenCon. We were going to update all the files this past sunday, but due to some thoughts, we were going to hold off.
Since our blog early this morning we have had a few emails for the request. So we will update the Paizo and RPG drive thru files hopefully tonight or sunday. We are sucker for request.
To anyone that has downloaded the beta previously, beta 2b doc is now in your "my downloads".
Honestly, I would say that this is pretty good overall. Just some verbage things to make things a little clearer on share the luck, lucky break, and persistent luck.
-Share the luck: Their should be an 'on' between the words ability and one in the first sentence.
-From what I am understanding Lucky Break allows a player to expend one use of his beginner's luck ability to take a 5 ft. step, without provoking an attack of opportunity, to negate the effects of an incoming melee attack. If that is the case then the wording needs to be improved so as to make that abundantly clear to both players and DMs.
-Persistent Luck: No clue what that is trying to say/accomplish. I would certainly appreciate some clarity on that ability. I think it is trying to say that a player can expend one use of beginner's luck to re-roll his next two d20 rolls, but again that is just a guess on my part.
Aside from that it looks good. Just waiting to see the two other capstone abilities.