Gnomes have obsessions in Pathfinder. Your kobolds have obsessions.
Really? Wasn't aware of that, haven't played a gnome in PF yet. I liked the fey flavor stuck on them, but haven't gotten a chance to use it.
Huh. Might need to tweak that. Or maybe just remove it from gnomes, it doesn't fit them in my setting, while I do like the idea of kobolds being so engrossed in getting stuff done to the exclusion of outside observation. It fits their flavor better than fey refugees IMO.
You are all hereby sentenced to a Fun-Timey Reeducation Through Labor Supercenter.
I am glad someone brought up Tolkien. He was the first person to show Dwarves as other than evil. This was in the Hobbit and following shortly thereafter in LotR. But even in his early works they are portrayed as short sighted, greedy, and backstabbing.Oh, I quite agree that whole races of evil monsters can be problematic. Races of 'always' evil monsters are part of the game as written, but they don't have to be part of a given campaign. That's up to the DM.
IIRC, Tolkien struggled a bit with evil nature vs evil nurture in regards to his orcs.
One way to handle 'always evil humanoids' is to rule that they are evil spirits given flesh, perhaps
reincarnated souls of the damned or minor demons.Another approach is to assume, as Mikaze seem to do, that the evil ways of these monster folk are mostly cultural in origin. That's an interesting approach. It does beg the question: if the monsters can choose not to be evil: why aren’t there more good and neutral goblins, orcs, trolls, etc. Maybe her setting does have more neutral or good aligned members of those monster types?
YMMV, of course! Some players and DMs will not be bothered in the least by this stuff.
Ah, the 'Lost Tales'? Yeah, I do recall that those dwarves weren't so nice.
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Another approach is to assume, as Mikaze seem to do, that the evil ways of these monster folk are mostly cultural in origin. That's an interesting approach. It does beg the question: if the monsters can choose not to be evil: why aren’t there more good and neutral goblins, orcs, trolls, etc. Maybe her setting does have more neutral or good aligned members of those monster types?
Yep. There's a much wider spread amongst the humanoid races(and sapient beings in general). There may be alignment leaning for some races, but it's not some universal truth concerning what every member of a race is deep down.
Those looking for Always Chaotic Evil threats to guiltlessly bash in are better off looking for organizations rather than races. There are plenty of those to go around. There's also some forms of undead, outsiders, and aberrations,
Goblins are a largely oppressed race with some fey background, who by now have a culture unfortunately shaped by subjugation and victimization. Many cultures consider them a slave race, many consider them third-class citizens at best. Weaker than the other races, goblins have largely falling into the role of a subservient race as a matter of survival. Where they aren't actively oppressed, they make for highly adept scavengers and scrappers, making a business of the leavings of other races. In a more negative direction, some goblins band together around the basis of "them against us" and take it to the max, which tends to just make the situation worse for the race as a whole. They're a bit similar to the kobolds in that way, but where the kobolds are largely guided by a draconic mindset, goblins are influenced more by whatever humanoid culture they've either latched onto or whose heel is currently grinding them into the dirt.
Hobgoblins were out of goblins and their treatment listed above. Historians are split on whether they were purposefully bred from goblin stock by their masters or if they were born as a defensive reaction to their suffering. The end result was a race of people typically known for military leanings and imperial mindsets. Some served the masters of their ancestors as slave-warriors. Some overthrew their masters. Some of those became liberators and safekeepers of goblinkind, some went on to become what they had just overthrown, enslaving their own kind.
Bugbears are another "reactive" offshoot of the goblin race, born out of those tribes that had been forced to seek freedom in the harshest environs. Typically savage in culture. Like orcs, very shamanistic in leaning, but lacking the honor codes that most orckind cleave to.
Hobgoblins pretty much look like this. Goblins look like that, except smaller, proportions adjusted, and green. Bugbears look like burlier hobgoblins with a thin coat of fur and protruding canines.
Goblins are generally presented as an underdog race that can produce some real underdog-ish heroes, sympathetic NPCs, understandable villains, and just like humans, truly monstrous villains.
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I am glad someone brought up Tolkien. He was the first person to show Dwarves as other than evil. This was in the Hobbit and following shortly thereafter in LotR. But even in his early works they are portrayed as short sighted, greedy, and backstabbing.Oh, I quite agree that whole races of evil monsters can be problematic. Races of 'always' evil monsters are part of the game as written, but they don't have to be part of a given campaign. That's up to the DM.
IIRC, Tolkien struggled a bit with evil nature vs evil nurture in regards to his orcs.
One way to handle 'always evil humanoids' is to rule that they are evil spirits given flesh, perhaps
reincarnated souls of the damned or minor demons.Another approach is to assume, as Mikaze seem to do, that the evil ways of these monster folk are mostly cultural in origin. That's an interesting approach. It does beg the question: if the monsters can choose not to be evil: why aren’t there more good and neutral goblins, orcs, trolls, etc. Maybe her setting does have more neutral or good aligned members of those monster types?
YMMV, of course! Some players and DMs will not be bothered in the least by this stuff.
Ah, the 'Lost Tales'? Yeah, I do recall that those dwarves weren't so nice.
Yes, they were retrofitted as Petty-Dwarves in lost tales but were not in fact a separate race until then. And they were quite petty. Unsurpassed greed and a very extreme xenophobia. Some of which was exacerbated by the rings of power, but many of the lost tales stories were from before the rings when Sauron was merely the lord of the were-wolves.
Sounds like fun, Mikaze!
You know I love goblins.
IMC, long ago the majority of gnomes lived in one city-state and the surrounding hills.
Kobolds were discovered by the gnome miners under the hills near the city. The gnomes systematically captured the little earth devils and then set them to work a menial servants and brute laborers.
After enjoying a golden age of magic and science, the gnome city fell to the combined assault of rebellious kobolds and a treacherous cult of Chaotic gnomes.
The Chaotic gnomes were transformed into the first goblins (I haven’t decided if they did it to themselves with a fumbled ritual, or if it was a curse inflicted by someone else).
Now, the ancient gnomish capital is a partially ruined mega dungeon inhabited by squabbling goblins and kobolds. The monsters often emerge to steal supplies—or children, in the case of the goblins.
I haven’t mapped anything yet, but the city will probably be partly above ground and partly subterranean, with large maze sections. It will have traps galore, as well as hidden passages and secret rooms. If you have seen Labyrinth, you will have some idea of what I envision. Treasures will include books of gnome lore, ancient but possibly still functional machines, gemstones, various pieces of loot gathered by the monsters over generations of brigandage, etc.
This history explains the bad blood between gnomes on one side and goblins and kobolds on the other.
I should re-read the Lost Tales.
I like the Petty Dwarves from the Silmarillion. They'd make a nice D&D/PF variation on the dwarf race.
I personally like my evil races evil. Kobolds are generally spiteful, envious and self-serving, because that's how their society teaches them to be. However, there is such a thing as a neutral kobold (or even perhaps a good one). A kobold tribe runs the sewers underneath a capital city, and does nothing more malicious than cover up a troglodyte invasion and steal the dwarves' mining business by saving money on ignoring mine safety.
Goblins, hobgoblins and bugbears are unchanged. Goblins and hobgoblins just live in a very harsh environment--even harsher than kobolds--so they have to be nasty to survive. Bugbears have species-wide mental illness.
Orcs were created by Rovagug to destroy everything, and while some can choose to turn against their master, few do.
Troglodytes aren't too bad, but have to deal with some unpleasant rulers and a war with the sewer kobold 'heretics'.
Gnolls are at war with the humans, seeking to uncover ancient ruins that are sacred to their people. Their warriors are generally evil, since they're trained to kill pretty much any non-gnolls they come across. Otherwise, they tend to be a little unpleasant--sort of stuck in a medieval society--but can be quite friendly to sufficiently courteous travellers. They're still evil, but not devoid of good qualities.
Worgs kill only when they're hungry or defending their territory. If someone does them a good turn, they'll generally return the favor.
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Kobolds are evil because they have yet to throw off the oppression of tradition and overpopulation! Kobolds are taught to view other races as evil and are not often disproved when adventurers invade their homes and slaughter their young in extermination expeditions. They've taken a corrupted communism, but condescend the contributions of the individual and pay fealty to a perfidious set of pompous patrons and priests.
Basically, they debase their basic birthrights in something belike alike to the bond-hating Baining.