|
It has come up in several games I have been in now, and I have to ask the other players and GMs. Humans are not infallible. GMs are, most of the time, human, and make an oversight with the rules, and a player doesn't. I feel is important for a player to point something out if this happens, even if it means something bad will happen as a consequence. For example:
Do you think it is right to correct the GM, even when it hurts you?
|
I have and my players do frequently. It hurts sometimes, but it can pay off. I make a point of thanking my players and sometimes add something into the treasure as an additional repayment of that honesty.
I've had GMs give me bonus xp for being honest or my character get some small inexpensive item they could find useful in a dire situation.
Honesty is never wasted even if it is fatal to your character or their gear.
|
|
I have and my players do frequently. It hurts sometimes, but it can pay off. I make a point of thanking my players and sometimes add something into the treasure as an additional repayment of that honesty.
I've had GMs give me bonus xp for being honest or my character get some small inexpensive item they could find useful in a dire situation.
Honesty is never wasted even if it is fatal to your character or their gear.
Unfortunately, in PFS, it is wasted, with nothing outside of the scenario allowed.
Edit: Fixed first post.
|
In fact ... I had this same thing happen at PaizoCon 2012, just last week.
I think that it's always appropriate to make corrections, even if it means bad thigns are going to come of it for ones character. In fact, I pointed out to the DM that he had to roll all of the damage dice against me, and that I'd take even more when Righteous Might wore off.
Of course, it meant that I was going to die. But, I was happy about it, because it meant that I was going to get to become a member of the Pharaoh/Ruby Prince's personal guard, and earn the title "the Risen". When the GM realized that I was thrilled about the death, he just shook his head and laughed about it and said that he'd never seen someone cheer when they died.
Even if it doesn't get you a title, one should always strive to play fairly, even if it's detrimental to you or the party. I think the game loses something when someone's trying to "get over".
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
In fact ... I had this same thing happen at PaizoCon 2012, just last week.
I think that it's always appropriate to make corrections, even if it means bad thigns are going to come of it for ones character. In fact, I pointed out to the DM that he had to roll all of the damage dice against me, and that I'd take even more when Righteous Might wore off.Of course, it meant that I was going to die. But, I was happy about it, because it meant that I was going to get to become a member of the Pharaoh/Ruby Prince's personal guard, and earn the title "the Risen". When the GM realized that I was thrilled about the death, he just shook his head and laughed about it and said that he'd never seen someone cheer when they died.
Even if it doesn't get you a title, one should always strive to play fairly, even if it's detrimental to you or the party. I think the game loses something when someone's trying to "get over".
+1. Either you play by the rules or you might as well be forging chronicle sheets while you are at it.
|
Here's how I like it as a player and as a GM:
If a player feels the GM may have made a mistake, assuming it's not completely trivial, they should mention it.
GM listens to concern, maybe asks a clarifying question and makes the best ruling that they can. Discuss the rule in more detail later after game or during a break.
Other GMs may want to run things differently. Maybe they are happy to look up complex rules questions in the middle of game. Maybe they like telling a story and play fast and loose with the rules.
There are many ways to run a fun game, and while my style is my favorite, (and what I thus subject my players to when I Judge) I'm happy to play whatever style mt Judge wants to run. If I really don't like the way a judge runs things, I will make efforts to not be seated at their table in the future. In the SF Bay Area I'm blessed with a plethora of locations and the ability to be picky about what I play.
|
You should definitely point out to the GM when they're wrong even if it harms you and/or another character.
Especially when the GM forgets some effect. The GM has a lot to keep track of and can easily forget something.
From a purely pragmatic point of view there is even a benefit to doing this. If the GM knows that you'll point out something when it is NOT to the benefit of your character they're much more likely to look favourably on your pointing out things that ARE beneficial to your character.
|
|
What concerns me:
|
99% of the time, I would have no problem with you pointing something out that I did wrong as a GM that would hurt you. But if I'm running a First Steps or any scenario for a table of mostly brand new players, and you realized that I "forgot" to confirm a crit or otherwise fudged so that I don't TPK a table full of new players, please don't point that out. I know I won't lose you, but I want to make sure that a bunch of newbies survive their first game. It makes them much more likely to come back. Then I take the kid gloves off.
That being said, I kept forgetting that my low-level fighter didn't have Improved Disarm for a while, so I kept telling GMs "Hey, sorry, I forgot, you got a free attack on me..."
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
But, I was happy about it, because it meant that I was going to get to become a member of the Pharaoh/Ruby Prince's personal guard, and earn the title "the Risen". When the GM realized that I was thrilled about the death, he just shook his head and laughed about it and said that he'd never seen someone cheer when they died.
I, too, have been waiting for the opportunity to join the ranks of the elite Osiriani. My character has skirted death nearly every scenario, right up until she had the prestige to actually come back.
On topic, as a GM, I certainly appreciate it when players are honest with me and correct an oversight on my part. I will also try to come forward as a player even when it may be detrimental to our party or to me in particular.
The only time I tend to hold back, however, is when it's another player who's under the gun. As a GM, I'm prepared (eager?) to send characters to their doom. As a player, though, I don't want to ruin someone else's night by forcing their character to die on a technicality. For all I know, the GM could be trying to fudge something in the player's favor and by calling him out I've forced his hand. I don't consider it my business to get involved there, unless I know both GM and player would prefer things to go by the letter.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
When I am GM'ing I prefer that if/when I make a mistake that you try not in interupt my monlogue. It ruins the flow. I certainly want to know, maybe not just right now. But if it is important or substantial then it needs to addressed before I move on to my NEXT monologue.
|
|
When the GM realized that I was thrilled about the death, he just shook his head and laughed about it and said that he'd never seen someone cheer when they died.Usually most players at my table are happy to have an end to their suffering.
Me, not so much. Two died in last nights adventure, I got the feeling that they weren't too happy.
|
Venture-Captain, Oregon—Portland
|
As the GM in question for the QoP Part III scenario, I just rechecked and Ninjaxenomorph is correct in that
I did in fact mix up the owlbear with the axe beak, not making "rulings off the cuff without caring about what the rules actually are." I had been flipping pages of the scenario back and forth and must have mistakenly left it on the owlbear. I do make mistakes, I'm not infallible. As I constantly tell people, I have a cognitive disorder, so feel to correct me.
As far as the Charm Hex vs. Charm Person, I am aware of the difference but in this case I just wanted to impart some information to you and the other players for RP flavor that you wouldn't otherwise have received. The scenario itself doesn't cover interrogations of prisoners, and you'll notice even with the tengu answering your questions, I kept his answers vague enough that you didn't get any real answers, a fact which was commented on by the other players in the party.
Next time you have an issue, please speak to me after the game itself, or if it's a major issue feel free to stop the game and let me know about it right then and there. We have played together long enough and you have been in enough of my games to know that I do make mistakes, but I have never gotten mad when someone corrected me.
|
|
As the GM in question for the QoP Part III scenario, I just rechecked and Ninjaxenomorph is correct in that
** spoiler omitted **Next time you have an issue, please speak to me after the game itself, or if it's a major issue feel free to stop the game and let me know about it right then and there. We have played together long enough and you have been in enough of my games to know that I do make mistakes, but I have never gotten mad when someone corrected me.
Ok, thanks. I'll be sure to bring something up like that if it happens in the future, and I appreciate your willingness to fly with the interrogation.
|
|
Do you think it is right to correct the GM, even when it hurts you?
YES! By all means point out when a GM is wrong, but be sure to do it when it's in your favor and when it's not in your favor.
When I GM with new people I tell them to pull me up on something they think is wrong, because I'm only human. Of course if they want to challenge my ruling then they are going to have to pull out their rule book and show me how I'm wrong, bonus points for explaining how you think it works as you're pulling it out.As a player I often point out things that GMs have forgotten, even if it brings my character closer to death, this often leads to the other players giving me strange looks.
