How Evil Are You Assumed to Be?


Skull & Shackles


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

I've got a Monday night game starting up soon that I am tossing around a few different ideas on what I should run. Skull and Shackles is one that I am thinking about. It is a group of folks (played with all but one before) that will be new to gaming together. I think that the pirateness of it all would provide some good starting RP. What I am concerned about is are you the 'bad guys' in this adventure path? It states that you should want to be a pirate, but that doesn't give me a strong idea on what the AP entails.

I don't really want to read my copies of it unless I think it is something that I will run, so figured I should ask folks here.


There might be some evil thing the PCs will have to do (sometime without realizing it), other than that, it is pretty much up to the players and GM, what they are confortable with and the like.

(Their goal might be Privateers, but that would go against the premise of the AP)


The first chapter has the PC's doing some pretty bad things. It's certainly not going to be conducive to keeping a paladin in the green, and most LG characters will balk at the necessary tasks put in front of them during the AP.

I'd say the AP was built with kind of a CN to LE tack to it, at the minimum a LN. I don't see too much slack in the intent for a good aligned group.


I think you can be CG or even NG (privateer, pirate preying on other pirates, "Dread Pirate Roberts" style maybe), but LG is pretty much right out. You are pirates, after all, so while you may not be the bad guys, you're certainly not the good guys.

It's definitely easier to be not-good, but you don't have to be evil to thrive in Skull and Shackles.


You raid merchant ships, kill their crew, and steal their stuff. You would probably be hung by any lawful society that found you, and do everything with your own self interest in mind over the greater good.

After that it is sort of up to you how evil you want to be. You sort of crossed the line at that point though. If you do not want to read the adventure I suggest reading the Life of a Pirate Section, as it is something the GM would want to give to the players any how. That has some examples of things Pirates do and how they behave.


CG or NG should fit fine, if put under the banner of a national or religious zeal or mission: say to attack Chelian vessels and pirates only. Or slavers (which is a strong sub-theme in a friend's S&S campaign ), fighting for freedom of the disenfranchised.

How evil ? :
You are rarely forced into all-out battle (in the first 3 APs) with civilian targets, raiding and plundering, and basically there is only one ship in the first AP that has to be attacked without being hostile, and the players are not in command. One can of course try to plunder "mercifully". Most other stuff in the campaign is "morally-neutral" for both good and evil

The greater problem would be : if playing a divine caster: which diety do you serve and what is his/her take on piracy ?

While overall the AP seems pretty much made for N/CN and moderately NE and CE characters (you should care about not scaring off your crew and friends by being "all-demonic" ), I do mostly see a substantial problem with any lawful characters indulging in piracy : which basically is naval robbery, so where exactly is the respect for basic laws (Live, freedom, property ) or regional law in that ? Which is why I see a real big problem for monks (self discipline and living for the soul and perfection, not personal enrichment ) is really hard in all of the AP.

Sarenraeic paladins (and perhaps something weird and wicked down the Shelyn way ) are possibly the sole choice in this path (as they are in many others)

A shady Paladin ("batman-esque") on the other hand might actually be a pretty good and interesting pirate, but would need some real precise finetuning on the code of his deity's wishes. And he/she (player-side)needs to be creative as how to resolve conflicts.

Avoid Abaddar, Iomedea, Asmodeus and Erastil. Anything else one can possibly pull off.


You could easilly be a Robin Hood type figure where you're stealing from the merchants and pirates in the area (but maybe don't rob settlements?).

Most pirate NPCs are CN, only the more depraved are actually evil. But even beyond that - you don't have to murderous and sadistic and be a pirate. In fact: murder was bad business. Sure, you have to make a living by stealing from others - but generally you don't have any respect/acknowledgement of whatever entity you are stealing from (so it's not really stealing, but more being patriotic). Depravity and treason are not what every pirate craves - most are just there to make a living off of the fat cats from other countries.

An overarching theme (and generalized plot point) is in the spoiler tag below:

Spoiler:

From one perspective: the PCs are fighting corruption within the ranks of the Free Captains, though they don't know it until way later. So they're being 'good guys' to the pirate organization.

Shadow Lodge

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With some creativity and maybe a bit of tongue and cheek humor you can justify almost any type of character in any type of campaign.

That said let no one be fooled. Pirates are not good guys. Running down a merchant vessel, attacking and murdering some of their crew, looting their ship, capturing the rest of the crew and ransoming or selling them into slavery, and then selling the ship for scrap - these are evil actions. Don't know how you possibly justify them as anything else.

Sure you could specifically target other pirates or slaver vessels or something for a vigilante flavor, or you could soften the edges on some of the harsher aspects of piracy, but it's straight up armed robbery and murder on the high seas. Spin that any way you like - it's evil.


As others have said, a LG alignment really doesn't fit this particular AP. (I had to talk one of my players out of running a LG cleric before we started - she went CN instead.)

Spoiler:
That said, if you look through the alignments of the NPC crew of the Wormwood or of other prominent NPCs in the various modules there is a considerable mix of alignments present (CN, N, NE predominently) with even one or two NG or CG. Taking that as a guide your PCs can be almost any non-LG alignment they choose: it's their actions in the campaign (treatment of prisoners, etc.) that will determine the tone they choose to set. There are some rather bloodthirsty options available in the Infamy Impositions, but no one is required to take those particular impositions if they don't want to.


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Although LG is just about right out, you can have LE or LN. Wjat is it with people who keep thinking that lawful people have to obey everyone else's laws? Lawful types follow their own code and principles.

Piracy for them is a means to an end.

You can have a strict disciplinarian priest of asmodeus. LE
The iron fisted captain (the fictionalized Bligh) LE
A priest of Zon-Kuthon (master interrogator)
A manservant (monk, LN) to one of the other PCs (maybe the one chosen as captain)
A candidate for the Red Mantis

Heck, even a wierd hellknight order based on the pirate's code.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

Thanks for the responses. Talked to some of my players and some of them aren't interested in pirates. So no go on that. Still have other APs that we can do! Appreciate the information.


darkwarriorkarg wrote:
Although LG is just about right out, you can have LE or LN. Wjat is it with people who keep thinking that lawful people have to obey everyone else's laws? Lawful types follow their own code and principles.

So do Chaotic and Neutral types... Lawful is a bit more about following someone else laws, codes and principles.


A law is something imposed from the outside that you follow. Usually created by a diety (or religious leaders in his/her name), or by some very strong ethical convictions.

Everyone, even chaotic evil mass-murderers follow their internal "code of how to do it" ^^ Even the ones with multiple personality disorders


One option to bring up if the characters want to indulge in the nasty stuff like torture and rape is a 'No details' rule.

"I torture him for info on the buried treasure'
"Fine." *roll roll* "You get the info."


Barator wrote:
Thanks for the responses. Talked to some of my players and some of them aren't interested in pirates. So no go on that. Still have other APs that we can do! Appreciate the information.

Out of curiosity, what AP are you doing?.


Pathfinder Adventure Path, Rulebook Subscriber

We are looking at Rise of the Runelords and Jade Regent.

Some players have experience with Kingmaker, and some have experience with Carrion Crown (actually same players).

I didn't really want to bother converting a 3.5 to Pathfinder. So then I started looking at what was left: RotR, Serpent's Skull, Skull & Shackles, & Jade Regent.

I cut Serpent's Skull because I have heard some pretty mixed reviews of it in general and I don't have a burning desire to run it.

I'm not normally a huge pirate fan boy, but since I have a new group of people I felt that the thrown together aspect of Skull & Shackles might be something that fit into the group dynamic. But I have a player who isn't interested in being a pirate, which I am completely OK with.

So that leaves me fielding RotR and Jade Regent to the group. At the moment there is one vote for Jade Regent. Other votes haven't come in yet.

I have read parts of both the APs and liked both of them. I think that I was more impressed with Jade Regent things, but I'm certain that RotR would be a great time for the group based on the reviews that I have heard of it.

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