As I said, I read that text completely differently. I see nothing in there eluding that neutral means its okay to save a bird then turn around and kill a baby. That'd be evil. I'd still say that's evil even if you saved the baby and killed the bird. Also, the text that does mention balance does not do so in a way as to say this is how you maintain balance but rather neutrality is balance.
Goblin Squad Member
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Neutral means you act naturally in any situation? Good and Evil are the nature of characters with those alignments, if they act good or evil that is acting naturally for them. Buri your definition and advocacy of neutrality just sounds like you're the type of person who doesn't want to have to abide by alignment restrictions, you'd rather just do whatever you want and not have to worry about adherence. But that's up to you, some people just aren't able to keep their role playing restricted to certain guidelines, and that's why we have alignment infractions.
That's not what I'm saying at all. I said there are 2 sides to neutrality as the CRB presents it: either you do entirely what you think without worrying about what's good or evil or you simply refuse to take sides.
According to RAW, if you kill and oppress, you're evil, period. So, no, neutral is not a get out of jail free card to murder. In fact, Forencith, Gregg Reece and yourself, Pannath, are saying that's what it means. I haven't once advocated this view on neutral so stop saying I do.
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Goblin Squad Member
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According to RAW, if you kill and oppress, you're evil, period. So, no, neutral is not a get out of jail free card to murder. In fact, Forencith, Gregg Reece and yourself, Pannath, are saying that's what it means. I haven't once advocated this view on neutral so stop saying I do.
I haver never advocated that position. What I said is that Neutral is also the belief that the overall forces of good and evil in the world should be kept in balance...that you oppose any one side getting too strong and advocate doing what you can to help maintain that balance.
What I was arguing has nothing to do with balancing ones individual karma. In Pathfinder Universe the alignments can be functionally defined by their respective deities, I am not making any claims about which came first...but if someone believes pure Good Gods running the world would be bad and pure Evil Gods running the world would be bad, it is logical they would fight to maintain at least a token balance. This is what I was talking about. Nothing about maintaining balance in ones self or ones soul or whatever. I suppose we were just arguing different scopes.
And counter to Pannath's claim that Neutrals do not take a side in the war, these Neutrals have very much taken a side. You would probably always see them on the side of the underdog...or maybe only see them as covert groups that act to subvert what they see as unfair advantages of either side in the war.
So, sorry if I misunderstood what Onishi was claiming...and I obviously misunderstood what you are arguing Buri...this is what I am claiming. I also continue to believe (and I might be wrong) that this is the position that the second (otherhand) official definition of Neutral is talking about.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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Neutral means you act naturally in any situation? Good and Evil are the nature of characters with those alignments, if they act good or evil that is acting naturally for them. Buri your definition and advocacy of neutrality just sounds like you're the type of person who doesn't want to have to abide by alignment restrictions, you'd rather just do whatever you want and not have to worry about adherence. But that's up to you, some people just aren't able to keep their role playing restricted to certain guidelines, and that's why we have alignment infractions.
Alignment does not determine what behavior is acceptable. Your decisions about what actions are acceptable determine your alignment.
There's no such thing as an 'alignment restriction', only a character who has a different alignment. When you describe alignment as a restriction on roleplaying decisions, you are making up rules not found in any D&D book. Any character can take any action. Those actions have an effect on the very real and alterable 'alignment' of a character, which might have indirect positive or negative effects.