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I don't see any threads up for this part of the AP yet, so here we are.
(I don't have anything to ask yet myself, just figured I'd get this thread out there for others to use.)
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Regarding the race:
Each time the PCs enter a new encounter location during the race, roll on the Stormbound Hazards table on page 73 to generate an additional hazard that the PCs must contend with as they race along the fringes of the Eye.
Are we also supposed to randomly determine the weather? It would seem that the entire race takes place within 50 miles of the eye based on the map on page 49, so we would apply the +60 to the weather roll. Based on the weather, we may also get modifiers to the Stormbound Hazards.
Also - once they get to areas I, J and K, they are inside the eye so I would assume no random weather roll is needed and we automatically use "hurricane" giving a +15 to the Stormbound Hazards roll.
I will probably do this regardless, but was curious what others think and if this is the intent as written.
Dotting.
Regarding the race:
Each time the PCs enter a new encounter location during the race, roll on the Stormbound Hazards table on page 73 to generate an additional hazard that the PCs must contend with as they race along the fringes of the Eye.Are we also supposed to randomly determine the weather? It would seem that the entire race takes place within 50 miles of the eye based on the map on page 49, so we would apply the +60 to the weather roll. Based on the weather, we may also get modifiers to the Stormbound Hazards.
Also - once they get to areas I, J and K, they are inside the eye so I would assume no random weather roll is needed and we automatically use "hurricane" giving a +15 to the Stormbound Hazards roll.
I will probably do this regardless, but was curious what others think and if this is the intent as written.
I believe your interpretation is correct. That's how I was thinking it was meant to be run anyways.
Lots of Tornadoes. It'll be nasty I'm sure.
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Something I found interesting (which I'll likely have to rework) is that both the testing and regatta rules in this part of the AP assume that the PCs have only one ship and one captain.
I know that my players plan to each captain their own ship, the four of them being allies in piracy, but officially independent. By this point in the adventure they'll have had plenty of time to potentially commandeer a number of ships for their own use, so I'm likely going to have to re-work the tests and regatta to match.
The final stretch of the regatta might not even be against Harrigan so much as against each other.
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Something I found interesting (which I'll likely have to rework) is that both the testing and regatta rules in this part of the AP assume that the PCs have only one ship and one captain.
I know that my players plan to each captain their own ship, the four of them being allies in piracy, but officially independent. By this point in the adventure they'll have had plenty of time to potentially commandeer a number of ships for their own use, so I'm likely going to have to re-work the tests and regatta to match.
The final stretch of the regatta might not even be against Harrigan so much as against each other.
That's an interesting situation. If they're all planning on being Free Captains of the Shackles, I guess they'll each need 10 plunder to get audiences with the Hurricane King and they'll each individually have to pass all his tests. (They all need to be Free Captains to participate in the race, right?)
Regardless, whoever wins the race will be the only one who gets a seat on the council. I wonder how that'll affect things later on.
Even if my PCs plan on doing something like that, I'll still have only one of them become a Free Captain and they can work together on his ship for the race. We'll see.
Never split the party is harder to pull in this situation. :P It's likely that if somebody gets to be captain while all the others count as mere officers that said officers will be less-than happy about their situation.
Perhaps they won`t even have amassed the resources to each be a captain by the time of the race though. In such a situation, non-captain PCs may end up serving as officers during the race and then later take tests of their own, rising to become free captains themselves. Or I may combine the testing, having them all take it at once for the cost of a single entrant, but end up being an alliance of four connected but technically individual pirates (kind of like the Wise Council of Three, the Tian pirate lord trio detailed in the back of the AP).
...Of course that's all speculation. I know that all my players want to captain their own ships, but not how they're going to end up going about achieving that goal (it's too soon to tell at this point).
My group is still back in the Wormwood Mutiny AP, but I'm buying the later books as they come out and reading ahead to have an idea of what's coming later on in the adventure and to look for hooks or hints to drop that can tie in to later occurences. Naturally, this generates questions....
In the text describing the encounter with Vakarla and her wreckers, stats are given for Vakarla and her four Wrecker Cutthroats. However, the text also makes mention several times of the "rest of her crew" who are clearly separate from the Cutthroats and who are meant to take part in the final attack on the PCs ship - but there are no stats or numbers anywhere that I can find for them. Is this an oversight, is it another case where the NPC crews just fight each other off center stage while the PCs take on the main antagonists, or?
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My group is still back in the Wormwood Mutiny AP, but I'm buying the later books as they come out and reading ahead to have an idea of what's coming later on in the adventure and to look for hooks or hints to drop that can tie in to later occurences. Naturally, this generates questions....
In the text describing the encounter with Vakarla and her wreckers, stats are given for Vakarla and her four Wrecker Cutthroats. However, the text also makes mention several times of the "rest of her crew" who are clearly separate from the Cutthroats and who are meant to take part in the final attack on the PCs ship - but there are no stats or numbers anywhere that I can find for them. Is this an oversight, is it another case where the NPC crews just fight each other off center stage while the PCs take on the main antagonists, or?
On page 21 (just above the Creatures paragraph and Vakarla's stat block), the text mentions that Vakarla's crew swims out to fight the PCs' crew. So this is another example of "off-screen" combat between crews while the PCs face the main antagonists (in this case, Vakarla and her 4 wrecker cutthroats).
I am wondering about Harrigan's crew in AP-3, especially before and during the Regatta. Harrigan seems to have no real idea of the PCs success before they turn up at the Regatta, and possibly not in the "Man's Promise".
So are the events which are meant to affect
I also find adding the "Admiral" for AP-5 slightly lame and would consider Peppery far more stylish and established in the storypath for said position, after all being around since the Wormwood, but even if I keep her , the question remains open.
And some small facts besides relating to inconsistencies in AP-3 itself.
There are no mizzenmasts on brigs, they only have foremasts and mainmasts. (Tsadok's test) Which actually will leave Tsadok's climber having to scale a longer mast, because the topyard on the main is further up brig at Wikipedia. I guess that was not intended at all.
No mentioning of clew- and buntlines for actually folding and opening the sail, which are located near the mast, invalidating part of the test as well. the yardstrops are only for stowing the sail, not releasing it for setting and flapping in the wind. Or the fact that yards were not mounted on supporting ropes, but lashed to the mast prior to the late 18th and 19th century - hence could not "drop" to the deck or sideways, unless you loosened both braces.
Details, probably not of interest to most people.... but nothing a quick trip to Wikipedia would not have easily checked ?
I also do not get the point of successful bluff, gambling and sense motive checks actually raising the cardgame-score in Tsadoks test part II to over 20, invalidating the PCs score. How exactly are they supposed to influence the factual cards held( aka rolls) by the player ? Or influence Tsadok who actually does not react to mostly anything the players try ?
And what exactly is supposed to happen if the PC goes "all in" ? Will Tsadok fold ? How often ?
Methinks, another minigame will actually be needed that does not actually penalize the PCs for being successful in their skill use. Anyone have an idea where to find one ?
And... how is the Marsh giant supposed to be controlled ? What happens if he is... say feared, and scampers off ?
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Some good questions there. I'll touch on what I can, based on what I think.
I am wondering about Harrigan's crew in AP-3, especially before and during the Regatta. Harrigan seems to have no real idea of the PCs success before they turn up at the Regatta, and possibly not in the "Man's Promise".
I think I recall one of the developers, might have been James Jacobs, saying that specifics in the various adventure paths are written independant of the other books in the AP, and thus one might find minor character or plot contradictions between volumes.
The best solution is to wait until you have all six volumes and then make whatever changes you think are necessary to help make things make sense across the volumes.
There are no mizzenmasts on brigs, they only have foremasts and mainmasts. (Tsadok's test) Which actually will leave Tsadok's climber having to scale a longer mast, because the topyard on the main is further up brig at Wikipedia. I guess that was not intended at all.
No mentioning of clew- and buntlines for actually folding and opening the sail, which are located near the mast, invalidating part of the test as well. the yardstrops are only for stowing the sail, not releasing it for setting and flapping in the wind. Or the fact that yards were not mounted on supporting ropes, but lashed to the mast prior to the late 18th and 19th century - hence could not "drop" to the deck or sideways, unless you loosened both braces.
Details, probably not of interest to most people.... but nothing a quick trip to Wikipedia would not have easily checked ?
Presumably not intended, and overlooked simply for being rule-complicating details unnecessary for the enjoyment of the game. Best to just assume that working the masts works as-written, and that both climbers face the same challenge on their respective masts.
(Also keep in mind that Pathfinder is hardly a strict medieval-european fantasy setting. Things will exist in it that developed in other times or places, and that's not wrong of Pathfinder to have them. It's fantasy after all, not history.)
3rd Spoiler text
Presumably that person's prowess in comes from the use of high-level magic far more so than from what type of ship they sail.
I also do not get the point of successful bluff, gambling and sense motive checks actually raising the cardgame-score in Tsadoks test part II to over 20, invalidating the PCs score. How exactly are they supposed to influence the factual cards held( aka rolls) by the player ? Or influence Tsadok who actually does not react to mostly anything the players try ?
And what exactly is supposed to happen if the PC goes "all in" ? Will Tsadok fold ? How often ?Methinks, another minigame will actually be needed that does not actually penalize the PCs for being successful in their skill use. Anyone have an idea where to find one ?
The card game was... Difficult... I remember going over the rules again and again and eventually deciding that it was passable, but that I'd probably just break out actual cards and have Tsadok and the PC play poker instead.
As for the PCs going all-in, presumably Tsadok matches their bet if it's dramatically an appropriate time to do so, and folds if it isn't.
And... how is the Marsh giant supposed to be controlled ? What happens if he is... say feared, and scampers off ?
Presumably the PCs get in trouble massive trouble for allowing a Marsh Giant to scamper off into either Jeopardy Bay, or Port Peril itself. Doubly so if they caused it to do so and did nothing to try and stop it.
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I also do not get the point of successful bluff, gambling and sense motive checks actually raising the cardgame-score in Tsadoks test part II to over 20, invalidating the PCs score. How exactly are they supposed to influence the factual cards held( aka rolls) by the player ? Or influence Tsadok who actually does not react to mostly anything the players try ?
Methinks, another minigame will actually be needed that does not actually penalize the PCs for being successful in their skill use. Anyone have an idea where to find one ?
Bastard's Fool
The rules of Bastard's Fool are designed to abstractly 'simulate' a game of cards in roughly the same way a Craft check simulates a day (or week) of work. You can use one series of rolls (one round) to simulate a period of gambling without having to roll every single hand, or you go into detail and roll it out for every hand.
The dice rolls don't actually represent the exact hand (or hands), just the relative strength of them compared to other players.
Also @vikingson, I think you are misreading the rules, a final score of above 20 isn't invalid, it just represents a really well-played run of cards.
The process is this:
- Ante
- Roll a d20 secretly
- Bet
- Roll a another die secretly (d4, d6, d8, d10, d12, or d20)
- Bet
If the total of both dice is above 20, it means that the character didn't get the Ace or the heart, or other cards they were looking for to complete the run or staight or whatever they were aiming for. Their score is the higher or the two dice. If the total of both dice is 20 or less it means they did get helpful cards and their score is the total of both dice.So: if d20 + other die is greater than 20, then Score equals highest die.
if d20 + other die is less than or equal to 20, then Score equals total of both dice. - A character can make the skill checks (Sense Motive, Bluff, Profession [gambler] etc.) to simulate things like noticing 'tells' from Tsadok, betting aggressively, or knowing and playing the odds of going for certain combinations of cards — for the entire gambling period. A successful Bluff check could be portrayed as 'influencing' Tsodak causing him to play too aggressively or too cautiously. Succeeding at these checks add to the character's Score, to get their Final Score, even if this Final Score is over 20. These rolls don't change the 'factual cards', they just make it more likely that the character will win in the long run during the period of gambling.
- Lastly, reveal dice (cards), and highest final score wins.
The thing about this mini game is that it only involves one PC, making it fairly boring for the others.
And what exactly is supposed to happen if the PC goes "all in" ? Will Tsadok fold ? How often ?
Tsadok bets small for the first dozen hands, folding if the stakes rise too high (over 5 pp), hoping that multiple drinks of rum will start to affect his opponent.
Gotta love more 'rum rations' :-) This hopefully tips things a little in Tsadok's favor but it also stops the mini game from being over too quickly.
Eventually, Tsadok or the PC goes “all in,” betting the remainder of his stake on a single hand.
When this happens is up to the GM, I'd do this at a time when the players are comfortable with how the game works but they aren't yet bored of it (especially those not playing). I'd also try to do this when the PC's and Tsadok's coin piles are roughly even, giving the game a 'clean' finish. Tsadok isn't going bother playing the game out if he has 3 coins and the PCs have 197.
As for the PCs going all-in, presumably Tsadok matches their bet if it's dramatically an appropriate time to do so, and folds if it isn't.
Absolutely!
Hopefully, the challenge ends a little like a 'piratey' version of the Maverick movie.
Hope that helps.
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And some small facts besides relating to inconsistencies in AP-3 itself.
There are no mizzenmasts on brigs, they only have foremasts and mainmasts. (Tsadok's test) Which actually will leave Tsadok's climber having to scale a longer mast, because the topyard on the main is further up brig at Wikipedia. I guess that was not intended at all.
No mentioning of clew- and buntlines for actually folding and opening the sail, which are located near the mast, invalidating part of the test as well. the yardstrops are only for stowing the sail, not releasing it for setting and flapping in the wind. Or the fact that yards were not mounted on supporting ropes, but lashed to the mast prior to the late 18th and 19th century - hence could not "drop" to the deck or sideways, unless you loosened both braces.
Details, probably not of interest to most people.... but nothing a quick trip to Wikipedia would not have easily checked ?
That's mighty fine nautical talk there. Arrr :-)
I did do a fair amount of research for this bit. I'm not a sailor and I certainly could be wrong, but I also don't always trust wikipedia to tell me the exact truth.
Mizzenmast: A mizzenmast is the aftmost mast on a ship with 3 or more masts. On a ship with only two masts, the aftmost mast is usually called the main mast or in certain circumstances (if it is a yatch or yawl) it is called mizzenmast and is a smaller. *link* I didn't want to say the main mast, because seems to imply that this mast would be taller. I also referred to this: *link*. The pictures here give a pretty good idea of the rigging of various type of ship. This link is also where the aftmost mast of a brigantine is referred to as the mizzenmast. Here's another link, *link* that explains that on a two masted ship, if the foremost mast is taller, then it is called the main mast and the aftmost mast is called the mizzenmast. So if the masts are the same height, the terminology gets a little complex.
Mast height: The only difference between a brig and a brigantine is the configuration of sails. A brigantine has the foremast square rigged, and the other mast 'fore and aft' rigged. A brig has both masts square rigged (Source). Here's a link to a picture of a brigantine.*link* The masts on that brigantine look pretty much the same height, so it seems to me there must also be some brigs with masts the same height.
I choose a brig because it has 2 masts, both square rigged, giving the appearance of a fair challenge. But it also has a forestay which can be used to cause shenanigans.
Setting sail: While the details of clew- and buntlines are great, I can guarantee my developer would have cut that for word count. I picture setting the sails being something similiar to this: *link* Except with only one PC/NPC trying to do it all at once.
I did my best to make it accurate, but also easy for someone who isn't a sailor to understand. I hope these details help people run their S&S games. :-)
<<big snip>>Mizzenmast: A mizzenmast is the aftmost mast on a ship with 3 or more masts. On a ship with only two masts, the aftmost mast is usually called the main mast or in certain circumstances (if it is a yatch or yawl) it is called mizzenmast and is a smaller. *link* I didn't want to say the main mast, because seems to imply that this mast would be taller. I also referred to this: *link*. The pictures here give a pretty good idea of the rigging of various type of ship. This link is also where the aftmost mast of a brigantine is referred to as the mizzenmast. Here's another link, *link* that explains that on a two masted ship, if the foremost...
Not really aimed at you, Matt. It's just.. ....a lot of people would run amok if confusing terminology came up for castle gates, roads, forest-features etc. It is basically breaking the narrative setting, the feasibility of many "you have to do that choices" (like squibbing), the inane reefs jutting out of the sea far away from land, ships thrown into the "it's piracy" soup like some random flavouring... *sigh*
No idea what the number of navally-wise players or subscribers is.
But it sort of lessens the entire story. Like having knightly fullplate in a movie about the Roman Empire. Or elephants as beast of burden in medieval France... A katana at the Elizabethan court...
It wrecks the suspension of disbelief which, given some of the cooler ideas, say like the Regatta in the AP, or the inhabitans of the AP-4 island, is a shame. Because, after you have to get the player re-involved in the plot again, instead of shaking their heads in fuddled bemusement. Or you have to rewrite - which in a way defeats the idea of buying an adventure^^
And there are literally hundreds of books out there explaining the basics of ships, sailing, piracy and actual events ready to steal/loan or borrow for the plot. Wikipedia is the common "first crutch"...
When "Savage Tide" ran six years ago, it seemed pretty obvious, that some of the developers had gone through a series of BBC documentaries, books and stories for inspiration or reference, which really showed. In a very positive way. So...
As for the scene : Drop the masthead flag on him, have the walklines the PC is climbing on cut or weakened, actually jam the lines in the tackles.. so many possibilities.
Bastard's Bluff :
"...each player rolls dice, trying to get a score as close to 20 as possible without going over"
"If the total of both dice is 20 or less, that is the gambler's score. If the total is over 20 the Gambler's score is only the highest number on a single dice. The highest score wins."
"A successful check adds +1 to the gambler's score, with an additional +1 for every 5 points over the DC (even if this pushes the gambler's final score over 20)."
So anything over 20 is with a high probability a worse result than not using skills at all (Tsadok explicitly plays in such a way that he will always stay under 20, trying to get as close as possible. Which means he always uses all dice for his score ), which, basically makes high skill rolls in the checks a real danger (since a DC 15 is not all that hard to beat).
What am I misconstruing ? High skill rolls are actually disadvantageous ? Say, I have a "10", thenr oll a D10 for "6"... then make a good bluff and Sense Motive roll, adding +5 and suddenly my basic 16 is only worth "10" again ? What would be needed is the ability to roll precisely the score needed to bring the "cards" up to 20, but not beyond.
The mechanisms, as is, does not permit that.
Also the fact that the winner has to drink a glass of rum is... ahem, "railroadish". Especially since it is explicitly ruled that Tsadok seems to be effectively immune to the drinks. And actually tries to have the player win the first dozen of hands (12 drinks... that is a Fort DC21 , plus with a high probability of being sickened as well).
I am not a mathmatics wizkid, but actually adding a fixed amount to any dice roll (for all rolls or for just one) does not affect the probabilities of trumping Tsadok, unless the highest "total" wins. Mathmaticians, please prove me wrong...
Guess it's gonna be real poker, Blackjack or a short series of actual resisted skill tests.
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Vikingson, the way I read it is that the amount added from the skill check occurs after the dice adding.
Ex: I roll an 18 on my D20. I decide to roll a d4 and get a one. My aggregate score is 19.
I have ranks in Prof (gambler) so I make my skill check--my result is high enough to add three to my score. So this is added to my 19 to give me a total score of 22, unbeatable, unless Tsadok is cheating on that hand.
You're not penalized from high skill checks because that bonus is added after the totalling from the dice, not before.
I'm looking forward to that challenge, as both my players an I will have a lot of fun with it.
Ex: I roll an 18 on my D20. I decide to roll a d4 and get a one. My aggregate score is 19.
I have ranks in Prof (gambler) so I make my skill check--my result is high enough to add three to my score. So this is added to my 19 to give me a total score of 22, unbeatable, unless Tsadok is cheating on that hand.
You're not penalized from high skill checks because that bonus is added after the totalling from the dice, not before.
Methinks the continuous use of "score" througout the only five lines explaining the game indicates differently. Terms tend to mean the very same thing, in such close proximity
But after some thoughts I will simply go for "Knuckles" which they played in PotC, with opposed bluff, profession (gambler ) and sense motive checks. Winner gets a number of hints of what is beneath the opponents cup... And possibly with Tasdok cheating by swapping dice to a loaded set somewhere down the game with a Glove of Storing. Faster, easier, less explanation - and thanks to PotC sufficiently piraty... Also cuts out the dealer, another target for subliminary influence by the other PCs.
I also like the opportunity to call the opposition "a Liar and a Cheat" ^^
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Ex: I roll an 18 on my D20. I decide to roll a d4 and get a one. My aggregate score is 19.
I have ranks in Prof (gambler) so I make my skill check--my result is high enough to add three to my score. So this is added to my 19 to give me a total score of 22, unbeatable, unless Tsadok is cheating on that hand.
You're not penalized from high skill checks because that bonus is added after the totalling from the dice, not before.
Methinks the continuous use of "score" througout the only five lines explaining the game indicates differently. Terms tend to use the very same thing, in such close proximity
But after some thoughts I will simply go for "Knuckles" ( the German "Meiern") which they played in PotC, with opposed bluff, profession (gambler ) and sense motive checks. Winner gets a number of hints of what is beneath the opponents cup... And possibly with Tasdok cheating by swapping dice to a loaded set somewhere down the game with a Glove of Storing. Faster, easier, less explanation - and thanks to PotC sufficiently piraty... Also cuts out the dealer, another target for subliminary influence
I also like the opportunity to call the opposition "a Liar and a Cheat" ^^
I agree that it is slightly confusing with the original wording, but if you look at Matt Goodall's response:
successful Bluff check could be portrayed as 'influencing' Tsodak causing him to play too aggressively or too cautiously. Succeeding at these checks add to the character's Score, to get their Final Score, even if this Final Score is over 20
He distinguishes between "score" and "final score".
You use the dice rolling to get your score. Then you use any applicable skills to add to the "score" to determine your "final score". A score over 20 is bad, but a final score over 20 is good.
To go with my previous example:
Initial roll = 18 d4 "draw" roll = 2. "Score" = 20. Gambling skill adds 3. Final Score = 23, I win.
Initial roll = 18. d4 "draw" roll = 4. I "busted", so to speak, so my "Score" = 18. Now my skill adds 3, so my Final Score = 21.
You use the dice rolling to get your score. Then you use any applicable skills to add to the "score" to determine your "final score". A score over 20 is bad, but a final score over 20 is good.
Exactly! :-)
Apologies if the text in the book isn't crystal clear.
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Also the fact that the winner has to drink a glass of rum is... ahem, "railroadish". Especially since it is explicitly ruled that Tsadok seems to be effectively immune to the drinks. And actually tries to have the player win the first dozen of hands (12 drinks... that is a Fort DC21 , plus with a high probability of being sickened as well).
This assumes that the PC actually wins all these hands. Having penalties to skill checks, or being sickened only makes the challenge harder IF the PC attempts the skill checks to improve their position. If (like Tsadok) they don't make skill checks, then these penalties don't actually hurt them. Although the next challenge (fight) will be interesting if the PC is roaring drunk.
From Tsadok's position the rum is there as an equalizer for his 'average' gambling skills. From a metagaming point of view, the rum is there as a mechanism to stop the challenge from getting overly drawn out.
And for fond memories of rum rations from Book 1 :-) (At least this rum doesn't do Con damage :-)
You use the dice rolling to get your score. Then you use any applicable skills to add to the "score" to determine your "final score". A score over 20 is bad, but a final score over 20 is good.
Exactly! :-)
Apologies if the text in the book isn't crystal clear.
Lawyer by training. A formulation like this in any form of rules or contract, one usually pulls out the leading commentaries, fetches another thirty cases of possible precedents, files the motion and fights the whole thing through three tiers of courts. Then you settle out of court after a couple of years...
Still going for Knuckles. Faster, easier, more personal. more drama than a half-orc barbarian . less of a game-disrupting minigame for a single player. just my choice
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You use the dice rolling to get your score. Then you use any applicable skills to add to the "score" to determine your "final score". A score over 20 is bad, but a final score over 20 is good.
Exactly! :-)
Apologies if the text in the book isn't crystal clear.
Lawyer by training. A formulation like this in any form of rules or contract, one usually pulls out the leading commentaries, fetches another thirty cases of possible precedents, files the motion and fights the whole thing through three tiers of courts. Then you settle out of court after a couple of years...
Still going for Knuckles. Faster, easier, more personal. more drama than a half-orc barbarian . less of a game-disrupting minigame for a single player. just my choice
I'll probably do the same, it'll be nice for my players because that's how they opened the campaign.
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Hey all,
I got some Regatta questions and maybe a couple comments about the ending.
Regatta Time - How long is this expected to take? D to H looks like about 40 miles, H to J looks to be about 40 miles and J to M looks like 25 miles. Let's round that to 100 miles for ease. According to the Core Rules a sailing ship averages about 2 miles per hour, a war-ship 2.5 miles and a longship 3 mile per hour. That's between 33 and 50 hours. Now assuming the contestants are pushing there ships maybe you half that. Trying to get a sense if the PCs get a chance to rest and refresh spells during the Regatta and generally how long the event takes.
Hazards - Is it just me or do some of the hazards seem like they won't have much effect on the Regatta. For instance "Slippery Deck." If that hazard comes up does it have any effect on the Regatta. It seems like time is abstracted in the Regatta so if the "Slippery Deck" only applies for 1d4 rounds does it really come into play. "Violent Swell" is similar. Does falling prone have an effect on the Regatta checks. "Wind Against Tide" as speed isn't tracked outside of Part "F" does this have an effect on the Regatta. Does it reduce the PCs Race score. "Torn Sail" if one sail is torn what effect does this have on the ship for the Regatta. The Hazards seem like an awful lot of rolls for things that may not really affect the Regatta? The idea is cool but how they affect the Regatta seems a mystery to me.
F. Raker Shoals - Why is there a -10 penalty to the Prof. (sailor) check due to speed. Is that just because of the shoals or is that a general rule that applies when a ship is moving that fast? If so I can't find that rule and would like to know where it is.
M. Finish Line - So RAW the PCs cannot lose the race? I gotta say that sorta rubs me wrong. Sure they can lose to Harrigan but he's later disqualified so by the rules there is no way the PCs don't win the Regatta even if they get a -20 Race score? I hope my PCs never learn this. It takes away from their victory because they don't have to earn it.
I'd much rather have the PCs come out of the hurricane and see two to three ships ahead of them with the Wormwood in front. The PCs then need to make successful checks to close the gap, increase their Race score and take the lead. Lets say three ships Darcy's Pillage. Promised Bounty and the Wormwood exit the hurricane before the PCs. The PCs get four checks to add to their Race score. 1 success catches them up to the Darcy's Pillage, two gets them caught up to the Promised Bounty leaving Darcy behind, three gets them even with the Wormwood and four puts them in the lead. If they only get 3 successes it becomes s photo finish with the PCs having to make one more check to edge out the win. When the PCs are about to try for their 3 successes threatening to pull even with the Wormwood, Harrigan has Peppery send the attack.
Break out of the Regatta time and go into combat for this attack. PCs have five rounds to deal with attackers before their next check to increase their Race score. Pilot must spend a move action each turn or he takes a -1 cumulative penalty to next Profession (sailor) check to increase the ship's Race score. If they fail to defeat the attackers in 5 rounds the pilot is harassed and takes a -5 (for one attacker) or -10 (for both) penalty to his Profession (sailor) check to increase the ship's Race score.
If the PCs get increase their Race score by 4 they win. If they increase by 3 have another final check to break the photo finish. If they increase by 2 also have a photo finish check (because coming in second actually means they win because Harrigan is disqualified.)
In the above the PCs have to earn it. I like that a lot more (although I suppose the rest of the adventures assume the PCs win and not winning could create a major kink in the storyline.)
Thanks,
Shade325
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Regatta Time
Speed and time is an interesting question, the Gamemastery Guide says one thing, the rules in Ultimate Combat say another, and if you research real ship times, that's another source (those clipper ships move really fast). Given that you are sailing inside a hurricane for some of the regatta, the wind speed could really aid/hinder you. I calculated that it takes most of a day, the winners arrive late afternoon, those who survive finish at sunset (or later), and those who aren't out by sunrise the next day, are almost certainly lost.
Hazards
The hazards weren't written by me, use them if you think they'll add flavor or challenge to existing obstacles. I'd use some of the more dangerous ones for inside the Eye. A torn sail, should take damage (and possibly gain the broken condition) likely slowing down the ship.
F. Raker Shoals: -10 penalty to the Prof. (sailor) check due to speed.
The rule is in Ultimate Combat:
Turn (standard action): The driver takes this action to turn a vehicle's forward facing 90 degrees. The vehicle moves its current speed. If a vehicle's current speed is twice its acceleration, the driving check DC increases by 5. If a vehicle's movement is three times its acceleration, the driving check DC increases by 10. If it is four or more times its acceleration, the DC increases by 20.
M. Finish Line
I agree with you on the finish. The PCs 'have' to win because the whole next book is about exploring the island they gain as a prize from winning the regatta. When writing this I struggled to think of a way to make it believable, I think the DQ works and should make the PCs realise they need to improve their sailing skills. Notice you do get more Infamy and XP for really winning.
I also like your ideas for making an exciting finish, especially the bit about breaking out of Regatta time to go into combat rounds.
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I know that my players plan to each captain their own ship ... The final stretch of the regatta might not even be against Harrigan so much as against each other.
That's an interesting situation. If they're all planning on being Free Captains of the Shackles, I guess they'll each need 10 plunder to get audiences ... and ... have to pass all his tests. (They all need to be Free Captains to participate in the race, right?)
My group is months away from this. (Heck, we're a month from starting the AP still.) *But* this will definitely come up. Thanks for bringing it up and presenting an elegant solution.
New question/food for thought:
Leadership - Pre-requisite: Character 7th level.
That's right on target for Part 3 but there's no mention of how to treat this in the AP.
I'm considering somehow having minimum Leadership scores as thresholds for alternate/optional access to the various Impositions on p56 of Vol 1. Or maybe allow the PCs to skim more plunder shares for themselves while still maintaining loyalty. (I know the AP says just let the crew share one point of plunder no matter what but I think I'll let the pirates come up with their own share scheme. Similar to history (some of the earliest true democrats were pirates! :P )Would certainly consider the outcome as grounds for the Fairness and Generosity modifier.) Or using the cohort level limit as a gauge for which other Free Captains would rally to the PCs call. Followers would be perfect to either complement staff at the Rock from Part 2 and/or the fort in Part 4. (Sometimes Pathfinder and its predecessors is like playing Monopoly - PCs accumulate real estate.)
I can see a lot of applications of the Cause the Death of Other Followers modifier.
I can also see a lot of applications of the Has a Stronghold/Base of Operations modifier, assuming possessing a ship counts as a stronghold. Maybe the crew replacement abstractions would count only for ships and Leadership feat followers would count only for land holdings.
Right after the character's acceptance as Free Captain (and officers) would be some good timing for the Leadership feat. Given the written-in assumption of crew replacement in the AP, how would you use the Leadership feat in this series? Would you use it at all? Thanks for any soundboarding. :-) (Edit: sp)
Looking over Tsadok's stats in AP-VI, why exactly is he supposedly "almost immune" to the drinks at the cardgame ?
Because his equipment doesn't give it away (I was looking for an amulet of poison resistance), I don't really see him raging although a "table -flip" would be fun, and basically, he is not even much ahead in the way of stats. Just wondering as to the setting-as-written.
@Uri Meca : Leaderships looks like a good way to ensure a loyal crew staying behind aboard the ship, and faithfully running a number of errands while the PCs are doing "heroic" stuff.
Heheheh, that's funny. "Unless you take Leadership, there's no guarantee your ship will still be there when you come back." Heck, depending on the Leadership score, there still might not be enough loyal crew to swing the difference during an NPC-lead mutiny. Assuming that attrition "takes care of" the crew the PCs befriend in Part 1.
well, we found the wreck of the briying banshee, keelhauled some half orc wreckers, diplomacized a shark shaman, and we are still dirt poor. mostly due to the banning of item creation, the fact we have more than double the standard party size, and weekly william hasn't been doing enough sadistic PC killing. Sandara has been saving the more reckless PCs a little too frequently.
...and we are still dirt poor.
All the more reason to keep Raiding the Fever Sea, then. ;-)
...banning of item creation,...
Is that an AP canon banning of item creation? If so, I missed it when doing the first read-through. Can you please provide page reference? Or is it a house rule?
Thanks and happy sailing. :-)
...and we are still dirt poor.All the more reason to keep Raiding the Fever Sea, then. ;-)
...banning of item creation,...Is that an AP canon banning of item creation? If so, I missed it when doing the first read-through. Can you please provide page reference? Or is it a house rule?
Thanks and happy sailing. :-)
i believe it is more of a house rule. item creation feats are banned with the exception of consumables gained as class features or bonded object type items, we have a party of 9 (soon to be 10) PCs, most of the magical loot we do acquire is stuff we cannot really use, due to some of the more exotic character builds.
we keep running into all these overpriced tridents, rapiers, and cutlasses we frequently have to sell for half price but found none of the following
no magical katanas for Bruce
no magical sawtooth sabres for captain Roargar
no magical longspears for Jager
no magical cesti nor spiked gauntlets for our polearm users
no special material anything
no magical earthbreakers for Rokan
no magical composite bows for anyone
no magical daggers, shortswords, nor crossbows for Malik
and we haven't found any magical steel shafted Glaives for Lumi either
previous PCs that had similar trouble
no magical wakazashi's for Umbri
no magical gauntlets, brass knuckles, nor amulets of mighty fists for Rex
no magical scimitars for Polgara
we also had the downside of finding proper magical armor
we find,
not enough magical full plate
not enough magical mithril shirts
not enough magical mithril kikko
not enough magical mithril breastplates
and i swear that a good portion of this issue could be solved by raiding a tian junk with a 12th level or higher crew. and another sizable chunk could be solved by raiding a korvosan ship.
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So again players will surprise me. was given the letter of intro, so can start investigation into spy ring. They in turn dont want to mention to whom they seek. So they have started to spread rumors to draw out a spy. mentioning that one of the north Isles is weekended due to a storm. Than spreading it about that they are having a get together of some captains to play poker. Than spreading rumors that this is actually a secret meeting to discuss reinforcing the north isle in case of invasion. This caught me out in left field on how to respond. I decided that since the assassin is cleaning up loose ends than there is no real spy left. Now I did mention that these are pirates and instead of helping they may just want to sack said isle themselves. bought the NPC codex and want to get alot of use so will probably throw a "spy" at them, whom works for the aspus consortium or someone else whom seeks info on a week port town. we shall see how far i want to get out of the book. cheers
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...he wants an equal share of the Brine Banshee's treasure. He doesn't care about magic items; he just wants enough money to live out the rest of his life in modern comfort.
He's a lvl 6 expert; I believe he could reasonably be expected to barter for a PC share rather than a crew share. If a PC share means "not counting payout to a crew" then yes. If he's tagging along, he would likely serve as an officer (or at least a VIP passenger), offering the use of his expert skills as appropriate, rather than grunting as one of the crew.
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Uri Meca has it pretty much how I was thinking. How the PCs pay their crew is something that's likely to vary widely from group to group, so being overly specific in the text about how much Hanelius expects was problematic.
It's pretty negotiable, but from Hanelius' point of view he wants a fair share of the treasure considering his contribution. A PC share or a share of the ingots in the hold are both reasonable.
Hanelius certainly isn't reckless enough to ask for an amount so large that it would likely have him betrayed by the PCs when he is no longer needed. He's also unlikely to argue if the PCs choose not to include the worth of magic items when dividing up his share of the treasure.
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well, we had the players share the monetary part of the haul between the crew and Hanelius, but the group in general was very active in using the sandbox-approach to robbing ships for provisions and plunder. Hanelius wasn't set for life, but given that the crew received about 55% of all plunder, and he did not really feel like haggling, it worked.
I think he got around 5k according to the notes. Given what people actually earn in Golarion, that seemed fine enough
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A bit late, but thought I'd weigh in on the bastard's fool/regatta issues.
In my game I plan to use a real game of Munchkin Booty to represent Bastard's Fool simply because our group enjoys it and its very piratey but also because everyone can get involved.
EDIT: forgot to mention I haven't managed to actually figure out the mechanics of how to determine who wins/how to represent Tsadok yet so any ideas/thoughts would be appreciated
The actual session is a few weeks away for our group (about to take on Tidwater Rock) but I've been thinking about it for a while because I remember running a similar 'tavern game' in a previous session involving dice rolls to represent the outcome and my group really didn't enjoy it.
As for Regatta, I plan to change each of the events from the AP into a chase card and essentially create my own nautical chase route following the Gamemastery Chase Card rules (which we use all the time and really enjoy).
This isn't too far from the 'race points' as written but it will fit my group's tastes better as we're already pretty invested in the chase mechanics.
Getting near to the end of book 2 now so starting to plan ahead this is the part im slightly worried about as its slightly railroady, get info, get item, given clue, go to clue rinse and repeat. I need to think a bit on this one as I want it to continue the sandboxy nature I am getting out of part 2 (although me players do like variety and don't want to be on a ship all the time so it should work)
Im Thinking of doing something similar for the bastards fool game too. I would like to get all of the players involved in some way with the 3 events otherwise it gets a bit boring as the others just look on and wait.
I'm also not so sure on the whole go there get info, grab item go to other place to get info, go back get info etc it seems a tad pointless and a bit annoying too, so may change that a bit, not sure how yet though. Im already getting rid of the illusionary wrecker part as I really don't like it and see it being a real headache to run, im subsituting it with The Ship of fools 3rd party adventure instead.
Using the sandbox method in these forums is going to be really useful for the back and forth between various ports as the players can then continue with there prey hunting and settlement sacking enroute. They also have a tavern they have invested in in Senghor so they will be going back there every now and again to get thier takings. They have also left Sandara in charge of Tidewater so I may turn it into a kind of hospital/shrine to Besmara as well.
I think the apcoathry shop works OK but the race needs something I think. I may do something similar to the chase cards too but I might integrate a chase system similar to Savage Worlds. I need to work on that I think though.
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Something I only realized just yesterday, after picking up the book again:
On the cover, Alahazra's at the helm; her Oracular Curse is supposed to be near-sightedness. Even with the whole low-visibility-storm issue, wouldn't, say, Meresiel make for a better helmswoman?
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So aboleth encounter went interesting. It is up here to see the world and check things out. Along come surface dwellers. Hit the sorceress first with dominate. She had cast detect magic to scan the hold. She failed. Mean while the fighter steps in to hold and shark appears behind. Party turns while fighter goes up to wall. Dominate him as well. Did not want another TPK so figured he would sense the world through his 2 stooges. Through them he will learn. But, one of the other 3 rolled high on sense motive and they tried to subdue them. didnt work. fighter returned to the depths. Decided to rescue him the next day. 2 more fall victim. Now I have 4 players dominated. Told to just go about there lives and return in 2 weeks or less. Not really sure where this will go. The anti pally whom resisted twice is big on anti slavery. He will be looking for a cure for them. mean while I think I have an aboleth turning pirate and seeking more slaves. That and a new home.
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Told to just go about there lives and return in 2 weeks or less. Not really sure where this will go. The anti pally whom resisted twice is big on anti slavery. He will be looking for a cure for them. mean while I think I have an aboleth turning pirate and seeking more slaves. That and a new home.
Drop the Anti-Paladin a hint about the virtues of "Protection from Evil" vs. Dominate Monster... and have a couple of scrolls of Dispel Magic ready ? Hopefully for the Cleric or Sorcerer to use and free as many as possible from the effect^^... then grab some more protection from evil/good and head for the tentacle fish^^
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He knows and now has leveled to 8, so gets communal prot from law. Dont know if they will return, maybe. As was running the aboleth discovered it is a tough fight in the open waters. Project image can be cast and than moved about. The caster sees the world from the spells center, and is only blocked by effect. Water, while under it, does not break line of effect. Find a grotto, use illusion wall to cover it and sit inside while you send image out and about. It will not be easy to defeat it now that it is pre warned.
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Well still plagued by aboleth. The captain fails his save and the sorceress chose to fail. course this was after they were given some of the gold from the treasure. Course the player of the captain is leaving and the sorceress just died so that may solve itself.
I think my players were about to kill-haul me. They did not like all the dead ends with the spy chase. Than they get to hell harbor and split up. The lizard man fighter was the only one that showed up to the tengus place. he grabbed the victim and shoved him in the door and closed it. To get them to go further I introduced alchemy bottles with "J's" on them. They used scry on the assasin, so I let him go back to the bosses place and they tracked him there. Okay, back on tract. They go in at night with the password. Divide up, druid captain as a rat goes upstairs following guard. Monk is outside checking windows and other 4 inside waiting room. Than thief asks the fighter if he wants to cause some mischief and turns him invisible. Course guard notices and fight starts. Oh this was after the boss came down stairs to see whom was there. fight did not go well, but only killed one pc.
ship race was real tough. the captains player wasnt there and he was made for this race. storm druid, that has hit 35-40 sailor rolls. my players had a score of one when they finished. On top of that I think I was losing them, cause the fighter almost died to dragon turtle and than the elemental was real hard for them. I didnt even try for fly by attacks just landed and fought, otherwise think they may have quit on me.
Over all I liked it, and am looking forward to the next one.
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So after an extremely long hiatus, we're getting together for some S&S and I thought of something devious for the Regatta:
Harrigan: "So, you two invisible stalkers. Where are you? Ok, here. Take this anchor feather token. Fly over to THAT ship and use it. Kill anyone who tries to remove the anchor."
Anyone thought of this? Seems more effective and devious than trying to kill the PCs' pilot, and only costs 50 more gp.
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So after an extremely long hiatus, we're getting together for some S&S and I thought of something devious for the Regatta:
Harrigan: "So, you two invisible stalkers. Where are you? Ok, here. Take this anchor feather token. Fly over to THAT ship and use it. Kill anyone who tries to remove the anchor."
Anyone thought of this? Seems more effective and devious than trying to kill the PCs' pilot, and only costs 50 more gp.
Oh, I like that....
You are an evil, eeeeviiilll man! ;D
Definitely Yoinked.
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Nice thoughts with the anchor feather token!
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I'm surprised nobody mentioned flying ships (Animated Objects). I have a PC Witch heavily focused on crafting items, and currently the ship is an animated object with flying and swim speed. We had to fill the gaps in the Player's Guide entry for Animate Object (which is quite vague)
How would that affect the regatta? Any thoughts on the matter?
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I am not sure I would want the ship to be flying in the Maelstrom. Sailing the edge is bad enough. The ship could easily be drawn into the eye that way! So how is the witch animating a colossal object? By my reading the witch would have to be 32rd level!
"Targets one Small object per caster level; see text. An animated object can be of any non-magical material. You may animate one Small or smaller object or a corresponding number of larger objects as follows: A Medium object counts as two Small or smaller objects, a Large object as four, a Huge object as eight, a Gargantuan object as 16, and a Colossal object as 32. You can change the designated target or targets as a move action, as if directing an active spell."