People on face eating zombie cocktails of bath salts, PCP and cocaine are pretty fearsome. Thank god they don't tie off their arms and legs with rawhide tourniquets before the run a muck, but they get close enough.
The world is filled with stories of police and bouncers fighting these guys. About the only thing that works is piling on them with 4 or 5 people and holding them down. Being immune to pain, they are immune, in effect, to all of the pain compliance techniques of electrocution, breaking ribs with clubs, shooting them with small caliber weapons, and so on and on. No one really seems to get that all that stuff, however damaging, is still just pain compliance.
So how does a single person defeat someone on the drug cocktail if pain and fear don't factor in, especially if the victim of the attack is unarmed?
I found one video of a cop hitting a naked dude high on PCP allegedly, with a solid right hook and knocking him out with his first hit. This leads me to my main idea about this and what I would kind of like to talk about. Is it any harder to just knock one of these guys out? Nothing in the drugs should make your brain respond any better to being bounced off the inside of the skull. Better still, I haven't found any videos of these guys keeping their hands up or doing anything to try and defend themselves.
For beating one of these guys, is the most important quality to develop real knock out power?
How about breaking a leg? A broken bone can't support weight, so they can't stand on it.
You'd think the tasers would work better. Part of it is the lack of muscle control while the current is running. Yet I saw a news report where one of these guys was tased two or three times and he still managed to disarm a cop of her nightstick and dislocated her shoulder in the process.
Shadowborn wrote: How about breaking a leg? A broken bone can't support weight, so they can't stand on it.
You'd think the tasers would work better. Part of it is the lack of muscle control while the current is running. Yet I saw a news report where one of these guys was tased two or three times and he still managed to disarm a cop of her nightstick and dislocated her shoulder in the process.
Tasers are suppose to confuse the nervous system, but they don't work on everyone and there is still an element of pain compliance with them. On top of that, it still requires that you have a taser when you are walking to your car through the Denny's parking lot at 3am. I usually don't.
Breaking a person's leg is in the realm of "knock out power" but it is pretty hard to do. Kicking someone in the knee while it is fully extended to make a speed break is really, really technically hard, and just kicking someone in the leg hard enough to break it is an ability that's pretty over stated, or else you would see more kick boxers with broken legs.
Edit - and you actually can stand on a broken leg. One of my Paramedic instructors once said, "I only really remember the runs I go on at this point where a cop is throwing up when I arrive."
He told us about a woman, perfectly sober - just motivated to run from the cops, who jumped out of a wrecked car and ran down the street on a broken femur. The crepitus was evidently loud enough you could hear it over the traffic. Disgusting.
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Whilst they dont really feel or 'register' the pain aspect of being hit, the actual damage still sticks just fine.
Similarly, joint and limb locks work as per usual, the hassle is the idiots pull and strain against said compliance techniques and do a lot of damage to themselves in the meantime - but like, who cares.
We had this numpty went off on what we suspect was amphetamine psychosis, smashed a mirror and started carving himself up with it before he was 'in need of subduing', batons still worked as intended.
Shifty wrote: Whilst they dont really feel or 'register' the pain aspect of being hit, the actual damage still sticks just fine.
Similarly, joint and limb locks work as per usual, the hassle is the idiots pull and strain against said compliance techniques and do a lot of damage to themselves in the meantime - but like, who cares.
We had this numpty went off on what we suspect was amphetamine psychosis, smashed a mirror and started carving himself up with it before he was 'in need of subduing', batons still worked as intended.
Did you have to hit them with the baton more than you would a normal person?
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No, once across the side of the knee sent the guy all Bambi-legged and he went down quickly as a result. Was a solid hit though.
He struggled a lot on the floor afterwards, so yes I agree he was able to ride out pain, but there was little he could do about being limb locked and held on the floor for a while.
They dont get the ability to fight well, but the lack of inhibition and their use of unrestrained force is what makes them dangerous. I guess its how the Romans must have felt coming up against Berserkers.
Break the leg and you are home free!
Thanks for the info man.
Shifty wrote:
Similarly, joint and limb locks work as per usual, the hassle is the idiots pull and strain against said compliance techniques and do a lot of damage to themselves in the meantime - but like, who cares.
I don't know why I think this statement is so funny. Sort of a quotable quote.
pick them UP.- once someones feet leave the ground they loose most if not all of their leverage. (only works if you have a size advantage-probably not your ideal solution unless they're already next to you anyway)
Then put them DOWN or choke them out- PCP or not. no oxygen= no muscle movement.
Getting a blow that solid enough to do a concussion in one hit is valuable, but probably takes a little luck too on someone moving around that fast.
Am i the only one that was disappointed this wasn't about actual zombies?
cranewings wrote: I don't know why I think this statement is so funny. Sort of a quotable quote. Cheers!
I'm known for my deeply sensitive side.
I'm suspicious of recommending people grapple someone with super strength and a propensity to bite. Grappling also favors the stronger person, and I think it is easier to become strong enough to knock someone out than to get strong enough to throw and lock someone up.
cranewings wrote: I'm suspicious of recommending people grapple someone with super strength and a propensity to bite. Grappling also favors the stronger person, and I think it is easier to become strong enough to knock someone out than to get strong enough to throw and lock someone up. Grappling favors the person using leverage. If neither are using leverage, then it favors strength.
The propensity to bite is the more troubling aspect. Still, a basis of Judo or Jujitsu techniques can negate much of that by using techniques that avoid the head.
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What I worry about most are the Zhombre's. I hear say these zombies are
tuff hombres.
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Serisan wrote: cranewings wrote: I'm suspicious of recommending people grapple someone with super strength and a propensity to bite. Grappling also favors the stronger person, and I think it is easier to become strong enough to knock someone out than to get strong enough to throw and lock someone up. Grappling favors the person using leverage. If neither are using leverage, then it favors strength.
The propensity to bite is the more troubling aspect. Still, a basis of Judo or Jujitsu techniques can negate much of that by using techniques that avoid the head. It is hard to avoid the head because they can just lean over and bite, or reach out and bite, or pull your arm to their mouth and bite.
I also think the ability to overcome strength with leverage is overstated. Big people don't use all their strength to move and what's left over can crush leverage. Not that I'm good now, but when I first started jujitsu I didn't know anything about grappling. I weighed about 250 and their were some black belts in judo in the class. I routinely countered their hip throws and what not just by dropping my weight on them or shoving them, even the ones close to 200 pounds. The throwing thing worked even less in sparing where hitting them messed it up. I always felt my size gave me the ability to just squash technique.
In the Krav Maga class I just took, there are a bunch of leverage based techniques. I felt like they all assume you are a big tuff Israeli commando beating on a Palestinian civilian. None of them worked on the guy stronger than me, who could just jerk out whenever he wanted.
Hitting people has always seemed easier to me.
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