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I'm working on an encounter in which characters are expected to get between various rocky outcroppings, possibly by jumping. I know the DC for a horizontal jump is equal to the distance jumped (in feet), and the DC for a vertical jump is that times 4.
Here's the question: what about a jump that is both horizontal and vertical? Let's assume a 15-foot chasm, the other side of which is five feet higher than the side you're on? You'd be jumping 15 feet across, and 5 feet up, so would that be a DC of 15+(4x5)=35? Moving the other side only five feet up seems to disproportionately bump up the DC. Does lowering the other side of the chasm make the DC easier?
Is there anything a PC might be able to do to make these DC's easier? Maybe shoot a rope over with a bow? Where would a second PC need to stand in relation to the first in order to aid another?
The maximum height of a horizontal jump at the apex of the arc (at half the jump's total distance) is equal to 1/4 the total distance jumped. For example, say someone gets a total of 20 on an acrobatics check to make a long jump. The maximum height they reach is 5 feet, and that height is reached at 10 feet out in their jump. In your example, the DC would probably be 30 RAW, since the game has to work in increments of 5 feet when dealing with tactical movement. With a DC 30 check, they easily make it, reaching a height of 7 feet at 15 feet out. I'd probably rule that the DC was a little lower, like 28. Also note that all these DCs assume a running start of at least 10 feet. If that isn't possible, all DC are doubled. I'd recommend you familiarize yourself with the section of the acrobatics skill that deals with reflex saves to grab ledges in the event of failed checks to jump, as well.
As far as what PCs can do to improve their chances, that is basically up to you. If they try something creative, I'd recommend that you try to reward them. For shooting a rope over, ask for a relatively easy attack roll (AC 10-15) in order to get it to hook or wrap around something, but halve the range increment to account for the weight of the rope (or if you don't want to mess with that, just give a -2 circumstance penalty instead). If the attack succeeds, they can make a much easier climb check (climbing a rope is DC 15) instead of trying to jump.
Nice avatar, by the way.
I think its best not to add any real math to the game beyond the simple kind.. Its probably best to assume that when you Jump you get both hight and distance as needed provided your Junk check makes the appropriate DCs.
in regards to Danny Kessler None of that stuff about Apex and Arcs exists in the current version of the game.
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Re: Apex and Arcs-- I checked the PFSRD and it does list those rules, with the caveat that they weren't carried over from 3.5 to Paizo. Still, looking at the math on the current jumping DC's suggests that the apex and arcs idea is still in place-- nothing in the rules confirms or contradicts it.
For reference, I'm setting up an encounter to take place on the side of a cliff. Effectively I'll draw the map on the grid so that North is "up" and South is "down", so it's still 2-D, just top down instead. This arrangement means I can set up a whole series of potential jumps, with just about any combination of vertical/horizontal distances.
I'm thinking to keep the math easier, I'll just make the DC equal to horizontal distance plus vertical distance up. For jumps where the endpoint is lower, maybe I'll subtract the descent from the distance across, but add the total to determine potential falling damage?
Keep in mind its easy for jump DC to get above anyone short of a specialized character to make. Jumping 10 feet up is dc40 sure a monk can make it but most other chars cannot. Adding DC for both height and distance can just shoot them up high.
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Keep in mind its easy for jump DC to get above anyone short of a specialized character to make. Jumping 10 feet up is dc40 sure a monk can make it but most other chars cannot. Adding DC for both height and distance can just shoot them up high.
This is precisely why I made this thread. I originally intended to capture the look and feel of a classic 2-D platformer with this encounter, but Pathfinder PC's don't have a vertical leap to rival Mario or Razputin. Are there any suggestions as to how to make this more viable? Here are my current ideas.
--Since it's all on a cliffside, Climb checks can be used in place of Acrobatics (lower DCs but slower movement).
--If there are already enemies afoot, they'd likely already have set up some ropes or something to get around.
--Randomly determine wind direction each round, and give a modifier for having the wind at your back.
Anyone got anything else?
Here's the question: what about a jump that is both horizontal and vertical?
I'd recommend using the higher of the vertical or horizontal DC. Possibly add a +2 modifier for the added difficulty.
The problem is that the distances you give for an example would be crazy insane for an actual person. A parkour practitioner wouldn't try to land that kind of jump. He or she may try a 10 ft jump 5 ft higher and try to catch the ledge, if they we were crazy. I you've ever jumped just a few feet over an expanse, then you know it is a terrifying experience (and I'm not afraid of heights). So I'd either adjust my expectations for distances, cheat and basically halve the DC so a non-monk could make the jumps, or I would give the characters convenient access to potions or a wand of Jump (maybe even made at caster level 5 for the +20).
I'd use the higher of the two DCs in my game.
Which, for your example, would have initial DCs 30 or 20 for a running jump.
Without a running start, the final DC would be 60.
Well, this is probably more complicated than it needs to be but...
As pointed out above, if I can hit the apex of my jump 15 feet out, it would require a DC30 jump and I'd be 7.5 feet in the air, easily making it to the other side. So, the DC should certainly be no more than 30. In fact, with a DC25 jump, you'd reach a height of 6.25 feet, 12.5 feet out. With a linear approximation, you'd lose 1.25 feet of height by travelling the last 2.5 feet (which is an underestimate). So, I'd say DC25 would get you across safely.
On the other hand, since the ledge on the other side is only 5 feet higher, it would be crazy to try and jump across and *land on your feet*. Instead, if I really had to make that jump, I'd try to clear the horizontal distance and grab on to the ledge with my hands (being only 5 feet higher, it's about head height compared to where I'm standing.
So, that means a DC15 jump followed by a DC 20 reflex save. In this case, a missed jump check (even by 1) means falling to my death.
Now, for something in between, if I'm able to jump further so that perhaps I can hit the ledge at waist height, I'd need to clear the equivalent of about 20 feet horizontally giving me an apex of 5 feet but only 10 feet out. So, I'd be on the way back down getting to the other side. Again with the linear approximation, I'd drop 2.5 feet for the last 5 feet travelled, which is exactly what I wanted. Hitting the ledge at waist height, it's a little easier to hang on, perhaps DC10 reflex (15 would be more than reasonable).
To summerize:
Acrobatics check result of
25+ - Made it
20-24 - DC10 Reflex required to hang on
15-19 - DC20 Reflex required to hang on
<15 - Fall
Note: I'd also say that for anything less than 25, you'd still need a climb check as another move action to pull yourself up.