I am relatively new to the forums, Pathfinder, and completely new to King Maker. I have played some 3.5 back in the day and have just recently found the Pathfinder Beginner Box (PFBB). PFBB scratches all my itches and I have NO desire to move on to Pathfinder Core.
What I want to do is start a home-brew King Maker style game, but with the E6 (E5 with PFBB) rules mentality. Basically, no PCs/NPCs will advance past 5th level, but will receive feats when they would have leveled beyond that.
Anyway, back on point, with a limitation of fifth level - Medium and Major Magic Slots don't fit. No one would be able to craft such high magic items in an E5 setting. So, I want to remove these slots from the buildings that have them but have NO idea how much to reduce the BP of the building.
I had considered just removing the offending buildings, but I want to keep Black Markets, Academies, Magic Shops, etc.
Does anyone have any idea how many BPs a Medium and Major Magic Slot is worth, so I can reduce the BP cost of buildings when I remove these slots?
Thanks in advance,
The Bane
Just a query - why not...instead of reducing BP costs of buildings - have
them produce the BP equivalent of the magic items, instead of the actual
items...?
Okay, I am a tad bit confused. Are you saying rather than having a building create a major magic item, it creates the same BP of minor magic items? OMG, that might be so simple it hurts... if I understand correctly. How did I miss it?!
That way, you're not actually messing with the outcome (except for
changing magic items for BP) of purchasing that building.
e.g. purchase of Black market gives you X magic items; or
purchase of Black market gives you X BPThe are a variety of posts in the Kingdom building section of this board
where people have said what BP they think should be used...
Do you have a link or url?!
Thanks!
TB
Okay, yea that makes sense. I also think I found the thread that you were talking about, or at least on that got me thinking. It basically suggests rather than actually filling the slots with magic items, if one of the slots are sold they take the average GP value of an item of that level from the Core book and convert it to BPs for the characters.
They say this average equates to 1/2BP, 5BP, and 20BP. One of the comments suggested 1/5/10 BP respectively. I could then consider them as "Sales Slots" instead of actual items, where the slots might be; Minor Sales, Medium Sales, Huge Sales, all of low level items that are actually in the PFBB books.
Questions: Could I, as an alternate, based on this:
"To give you...
Black Market (50 BP; must be adjacent to 2 houses): A number
of shops with secret and usually illegal or dangerous wares. City base
value +2,000; 2 minor items, 10BP/month; Economy +2, stability +1; Unrest +1."
Just call it 40BP for a Black Market? Where I would take the first month's BP income from the cost of the building? I think it would help to slow kingdom growth, but my concern is that it isn't enough of a break on the building for losing possibly 10BP/Month. I think I like what you suggest better, just thinking of options.
Alternately: the only concern I have of how you have it written up is that normally, if I recall correctly, those Medium and Major slots might not sell, with RAW, each month. You basically are saying that all Medium and Major items automatically sell. Or, is that why you went with 3/7BP instead of like 5/10BP?
Thanks a bunch by the way. I really like the idea! Just was wondering about a bit of it and thought getting answers now will help me explain it to the players.
Best,
The Bane
The items themselves don't matter at all. Some games do away with randomly rolling them up, and just using the existence of the slot for income purchases. You could just rename it from "medium/major magic item" to "small income stream/large income stream". So the black market would produce 2 magic items, a small income stream, and a large income stream. You can benefit from one income stream or magic item per district, if you make your roll.
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My thoughts on 'fixing' the magic item economy have tended along changing the items to set Economy bonuses, +2 per minor item, +4 per medium item and +6 per major item.
For example a Black Market;
Black Market (50 BP; must be adjacent to 2 houses): A number
of shops with secret and usually illegal or dangerous wares. City base
value +2,000; 2 minor items, 1 medium item, 1 major item; Economy +2,
stability +1; Unrest +1.
Becomes
Black Market (50 BP; must be adjacent to 2 houses): A number
of shops with secret and usually illegal or dangerous wares. City base
value +2,000; (2 minor items = +2 Economy x 2, 1 medium item = + 4 Economy , 1 major item = +6 Economy, total of +14); Economy +2, stability +1; Unrest +1.
For final stats of: Economy +16, stability +1; Unrest +1.
This is certainly significantly less BP for a single building, however, I am allowing multiple different magic item selling buildings to stack their bonus's in a given city. Whilst this will slow down the growth and BP production to start with, as they gain more and more buildings the fact that they each provide an Economy bonus vs. selling only one item should increase their BP production as the game goes on, hopefully at a more reasonable rate.
Personally I'm a fan of Economy bonus's rather than flat BP, it's not only fun for the players to see big numbers but it ties everything in together, avoiding a situation where the magic item production/sales rolls overshadow the economy roll and becomes the main method of gaining BP once multiple cities/districts become common. It also has the nice added side effect of making multiple different magic item buildings totally viable in one city/district without making all but one selling a major item mostly useless for the economy, this especially makes the vast amount of minor item producing buildings you can end up with more useful.
This also allows you to skip the whole 'magic item generation' if you prefer, although there's nothing stopping you generating items and letting the players know what is for sale. The sale (or not) of those items simply has no effect on the economy itself, the purchase of some of them every month is reflected in the Economy boost the buildings already get.
That's not a bad idea. I play with the rule where the three stats need to be within 10 of each other, so giving such a huge boost to economy wouldn't help without corresponding boosts to the other stats. But I'm considering doing away with that restriction, in which case this might work for me...
The items themselves don't matter at all. Some games do away with randomly rolling them up, and just using the existence of the slot for income purchases. You could just rename it from "medium/major magic item" to "small income stream/large income stream". So the black market would produce 2 magic items, a small income stream, and a large income stream. You can benefit from one income stream or magic item per district, if you make your roll.
BINGO! At least I wasn't reading into it. I think that this is my best course of action.
I like Suthainn's comments to, though I will probably hold off and see how it works as is first.
I appreciate everyone's input! Thanks!
The Bane