Every time I look at this PrC I just get the urge to start writing up a sample character of one. I just can't get over how freaking cool they are. From their look to their fluff. Just awesomeness all around.
So I'm wondering, how you guys would go about building a hellknight? What class would you select for the first 4 levels before you take your first level of this awesome prestige class? What race would you pick and why?
When I first read up on this class I had this awesome idea of having a hellknight go through a sort of redemption and eventually become a paladin. Kind of like Cecil from Final Fantasy 4. What cool story ideas would you guys try and make happen as a hellknight?
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I'm playing one (full 10 lvls) in a 17th lvl campaign and I'm loving it so far. The Fearsomeness Discipline is made of awesome. However, I've had all of 2 sessions with him and he's a crazy slightly house-ruled build so I'm not sure you'd want to follow my example.
Depending on the scope of your game you can do a bunch of things with the Hellknight. I once considered having a Metal or Battle Oracle go into Hellknight, but only if the campaign was ending soon as my spell casting would come to a screeching halt.
If your DM is ok with it (mine was) you could go from the LE Anti-paladin, but some DM's take issue with having Evil characters in the party.
The most versatile place to start is fighter. Feats are always a good thing.
I don't see a Hellknight going through a Redemption from a Hellknight order. The Orders themselves are not evil, nor are they good. They're hard-core LN. In fact, many of their goals as orders can be seen as good. The second in command of the Order of the Scourge is LG and the Lictor (leader) is LN.
You could conceivably Start from Paladin and go into the Hellknight PrC without a mechanical problem. The fluff would have to be really good though.
He started as a leader in a Mercenary company (cavalier5). eventually the death and chaos did something to his mind and he became a semi-famous serial killer (Antipaladin, 2 lvls). He was then found and reformed (huh, there's a redemption story for ya) by the Order of the Scourge. He has faithfully served the Order ever since.
There's more to it, obviously, but that's the bare-bones version.
Actually, a hellknight can be any combination of lawful whether its good, neutral or evil so long as they follow the law and their code of conduct(example The leader of the Hellknight Order of the Gate, Vicarius Giordano Torchia is lawful evil).
The idea I was kicking around involves my character starting off as an aspirng hellknight(inspired at a young age from stories and the like), eventually earning the rank of hellknight and later discovering that despite their view on law their way of upholding it isn't what he expected. Conflicted with upholding the law at whatever the cost with doing what's right, this conflict sets him up for the eventual transition to a paladin. The end goal being a high level character with 8-10 levels in hellknight and whatever else in paladin.
While the paladin and hellknight synergize really well I was never really a fan of Lawful Good. Even though my character would eventually become lawful good its more of a character growth thing which makes it more appealing to me as opposed to just starting off as lawful good.
Edit: Fighter, hm? What fighting style is your hellknight using? Sword and board or just swinging away with a savage two hander?
The first thing I see when I look at Hellknights is the reason for Anarchic weapons. The second is a nice PrC for villains in Golarion. :D
But back to your questions: The way the prestige class is built it is very important to know where you want to go with it. If you want to be able to take all 15 levels of Hellknight within the normal rules you have to choose a class with full BAB progression for the first 5 levels. Since you say that you think about becoming a Paladin later on that is obviously not the case. Still, you want to get in as early as possible so that leaves (if you stay with the Chelaxian flavour) the Fighter (immediately gets all necessary proficiencies, and a bunch of feats), the Cavalier (all necessary proficiencies, better skill points than fighter, however with Paladin you would end up with three different smite-like abilities) and the Ranger (would have great flavour as a bounty hunter who becomes a Hellknight and has the best skill points but is actually the worst choice because some abilities are negated by heavy armour (whose proficiency he'd have to spend a feat on)).
Personally I would stick with fighter. For a weapon I would take the favoured weapon of the Order the Hellknight would belong to and get Weapon Specialization with it. If it's one-handed I would add a shield. The first discipline would again depend on the Order, the other two depend on what you like most about Hellknights and again you should think about what you want to do later. Summon Devil is a cool ability, but since Summon Monster spells used to call beings with the [evil] descriptor are considered [evil] spells/acts the use could later automatically make your Paladin-part fall.
I would always keep my hands off the Pentamic Faith ability (so no Order of the Godclaw) (bigger spell list for Cleric vs. -5 caster level = bad trade) maybe Hellknight spellcasters will become viable in August.
And these few precepts in thy memory
See thou character. Give thy thoughts no tongue,
Nor any unproportion'd thought his act.
Be thou familiar, but by no means vulgar.
Those friends thou hast, and their adoption tried,
Grapple them to thy soul with hoops of steel;
But do not dull thy palm with entertainment
Of each new-hatch'd, unfledged comrade. Beware
Of entrance to a quarrel; but being in,
Bear't that the opposed may beware of thee.
Give every man thy ear, but few thy voice;
Take each man's censure, but reserve thy judgment.
Costly thy habit as thy purse can buy,
But not express'd in fancy; rich, not gaudy;
For the apparel oft proclaims the man,
And they in France of the best rank and station
Are of a most select and generous, chief in that.
Neither a borrower nor a lender be;
For loan oft loses both itself and friend,
And borrowing dulls the edge of husbandry.
This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.
Ooooh! I didn't know each order had its own favored weapon. This will definitely make things interesting!
Starting off as a cavalier sounds cool too. What cavalier order would you recommend? So far I've only looked at the order of the sword.
Also, I thought hellknights only had 10 levels?
Originally it had 15 levels, but with the inner sea guide (I believe) they changed it to 10 levels. Don't ask me why.
-Vero
Where can one view the older version that had the added levels? Or is that information gone forever.
Wow! Thank you so much! I'm gonna read the crap out of it!
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My basic Hellknight is Here . I've filled it out since then and I can give you the full build if you want it. It's a very odd build. I have buff and damage (two handed) capability. Your DM will have to house rule some things to make it work by RAW, but my DM's cool that way.
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Where can one view the older version that had the added levels? Or is that information gone forever.Here you go.
Hmm, I think I like the 10 lvl revision better, honestly. You get more abilities per level. You do lose a couple things like immunity to Mind-effecting and the ability to add 2 bonuses to a favored weapon on touch, but I think the 10 level version still comes out ahead because you can get more levels of a base class in there and you game doesn't have to go to high level to see the full class.
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I believe they said they were experimenting with the idea without making a full base class. I would tie some of the cut stuff to progression through ranks as opposed to level.Hmm, I think I like the 10 lvl revision better, honestly. You get more abilities per level. You do lose a couple things like immunity to Mind-effecting and the ability to add 2 bonuses to a favored weapon on touch, but I think the 10 level version still comes out ahead because you can get more levels of a base class in there and you game doesn't have to go to high level to see the full class.Where can one view the older version that had the added levels? Or is that information gone forever.Here you go.
Now there's a real idea. Crunch rewards for role play, anyone?
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I can see Lictors getting mind immunity because ideally they'd be so tied the purpose of their order that it'd be extremely difficuly/impossible to sway them. not sure how to work the others though.Now there's a real idea. Crunch rewards for role play, anyone?I believe they said they were experimenting with the idea without making a full base class. I would tie some of the cut stuff to progression through ranks as opposed to level.Hmm, I think I like the 10 lvl revision better, honestly. You get more abilities per level. You do lose a couple things like immunity to Mind-effecting and the ability to add 2 bonuses to a favored weapon on touch, but I think the 10 level version still comes out ahead because you can get more levels of a base class in there and you game doesn't have to go to high level to see the full class.Where can one view the older version that had the added levels? Or is that information gone forever.Here you go.
I'd give one to the Master of Blades/Paravicar and one to the Vicarius
but lets not totally derail this poor lady's thread. Back to Topic! :)
Hmm, I think I like the 10 lvl revision better, honestly. You get more abilities per level. You do lose a couple things like immunity to Mind-effecting and the ability to add 2 bonuses to a favored weapon on touch, but I think the 10 level version still comes out ahead because you can get more levels of a base class in there and you game doesn't have to go to high level to see the full class.
I dunno. I really like the older one. With the inner sea guide hellknight you can't neglect intellect because you need to fill the skill requirement to become a hellknight. You also become a charisma based character instead of wisdom(the old hellknight uses wisdom for smite chaos and its other features) which means you lose out on a better will save. You lose two class features if you play the inner sea version of the hellknight and you get one less force of will capping out at a +6, +4 and +2. So it boils down to getting your disciplines and other abilities sooner VS gaining an extra force of will, one kinda weak class feature(mercilessness), one super cool ability(Judgment) and a better will save. I kinda like the better will save as usually fighters have horrible will saves making them prime candidates for command, hideous laughter and the like.
Edit: Oh wow, you do get to add two abilites to your favored weapon! That's awesome.
Also, if I wanted to go with my original idea of becoming a paladin later in the campaign the newer hellknight would be a better choice since they too are charisma based and I'd have less levels to invest in the hellknight. Hmmm, this is a tough choice...
Greetings, fellow travellers.
The old version of HK was written under 3.5 rules - if your GM is cool with it - go for it (I know, I wouldn't)!
Fighter5 or Cav5 works best with Hellknight. The problems some people have with Pal/HK is discussed elswhere in these forums.
I personally would go with Cav6 - she gets a bonus feat and her saves go up at that level, plus you get more skills as compared to HK.
And your AC improves, too: HD, BAB, saves, skills, NA, bonus to Str/Dex - which I consider extremely important for this combination.
I personally like the Order of the Shield, but from the fluff of the order, there might be similar, if less, roleplaying issues involved.
Similar arguments for fighter6 - saves and bonus feat.
I consider a combination with Pal6 as best. Staying LG and getting on board the Order of the God Claw should make for interesting roleplaying I'd take Travel or Protection as Domain with your lvl3 Discipline.
Ruyan.
Greetings, fellow travellers.
The old version of HK was written under 3.5 rules - if your GM is cool with it - go for it (I know, I wouldn't)!
I didn't know that there was a a new 10-level version, however I am very sure that the 15-level version for chapter 3 of the Council of Thieves adventure path is meant for Pathfinder. The smite chaos ability is mechanically almost the same as the pre-errata smite evil and the example characters for the adventure in the back all use Pathfinder rules instead of 3.5.
