Commit sepukku and roll up a caster. Man, the other guys are two of the least item independent classes in the game and you're stuck with monk? A druid would be good here as would a cleric (or another sorceror or summoner). Basically any full caster that doesn't rely upon money/items to learn or store his spells known.
+2.5
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The time to think out a retreat strategy is before you engage. In the above situation you should already have your retreat strategy in place so that if the rest of the complex becomes alert to your presence you can kill what you can and then bolt.Second limited terrain of a dungeon. We burst into the room fire arrows, make a sneak attack, blast a spell and hustle back the way we came. They follow.And if you do this, but with your monk entering the room all by himself (or other fast, high AC guy), then running back to where the rest of the group is set up and waiting in the room down the hall, then its an ambush.
You can do more complicated ambushes, of course, but they all involve luring people into fighting in the spot where you want to fight. Traps and snipers are all good things to have in an ambush spot if you can arrange them, but they aren't necessary.
You can do that. It'll often work. One bad roll or trap of their own and the monk is toast.
Plus, even if you lure most of them out into your trap, if one goes to alert the rest of the complex you're in trouble.
OK, so you've got a retreat strategy. Your overall plan is to send one guy into the guard room to draw the guards out after him to ambush them, and then leave?
If you're fighting anything remotely intelligent, they're not all going to chase you. Someone's going to sound the alarm. Much less likely to happen if you hit the room hard.
Most likely, they're going to stay on high alert for awhile after you run, so if you're got any time-sensitive reason for attacking, you're in trouble if you just bolt.
In general, hit and run strategy is tricky when you're on the offensive, outpowered, in territory the enemy knows better than you do. It's great for harassing an invading army, less so for assaulting his home base.
Just to say...I was replying to someone who said that they had *never* set an ambush, and didn't know how to go about doing so. It's was also in a generic 'dungeon' setting, not hitting an enemy's stronghold.
All of the provisos are good -- scouting and intelligence are extremely important. But the basic idea behind what an ambush *is* isn't that tricky: it just means fighting on ground you've prepared, rather than ground your opponents have prepared.
Dungeons can be easier -- for example I'm currently playing a Drunken master of many styles of the sacred mountain monk in a party where everyone else is rather squishy (a rogue, an alchemist(cryptbreaker, internal, chirurgeon) and a sorcerer going ninja arcane trickster) -- we use our ranged abilities to prod the monsters into attacking us in narrow corridors where we can put me in front to tank the monsters one at a time.
It doesn't always work, but it often does since most the rooms have only one entrance and no cover (or very little).
Im running a low gold/low magic game, and so far the players and myself have found it really enjoyable.
As posters above have said above, CrX is based off an appropriately WBL and Statted out party, so it really is on the GM to think through encounters and carefully watch the party to make sure they are challenged without getting unduly smashed.
Use of creatures with significant DR or magical natures needs to be very carefully considered, otherwise the party just gets overwhelmed.
Speak with your GM :)
OK, so you've got a retreat strategy. Your overall plan is to send one guy into the guard room to draw the guards out after him to ambush them, and then leave?
If you're fighting anything remotely intelligent, they're not all going to chase you. Someone's going to sound the alarm. Much less likely to happen if you hit the room hard.
Most likely, they're going to stay on high alert for awhile after you run, so if you're got any time-sensitive reason for attacking, you're in trouble if you just bolt.
In general, hit and run strategy is tricky when you're on the offensive, outpowered, in territory the enemy knows better than you do. It's great for harassing an invading army, less so for assaulting his home base.
Just to say...I was replying to someone who said that they had *never* set an ambush, and didn't know how to go about doing so. It's was also in a generic 'dungeon' setting, not hitting an enemy's stronghold.
All of the provisos are good -- scouting and intelligence are extremely important. But the basic idea behind what an ambush *is* isn't that tricky: it just means fighting on ground you've prepared, rather than ground your opponents have prepared.
Which is really tricky to do when you're invading the enemy's stronghold. And attempts to do so can back fire.
Especially in a dungeon setting, where your options are very limited.I was thinking in terms of classic dungeon monster tribe lair, ala Caves of Chaos.
If you're fighting single monsters or small groups rather than tribes, then you do have more options.
Even if you are fighting tribes I would maintain you are better off picking at them than running in on a frontal assault. Such would be suicide (just as much if that's your plan other than trying to at least be sneaky and picking them off).
How else would you suggest taking them on? Honest question -- I'm not seeing a successful plan that doesn't involve falling back at some point if attacking a tribe of some sort that also doesn't involve guerrilla tactics.
I'm not saying a plan can't fall apart or things can't get messed up -- just that not having a plan is a recipe for catastrophe.
First off thank you all for answering some of my questions OP I hope I did not derail your thread by asking about tactics. I hope it can help you in your game as well.
I was curious what others meant by hit and run. As for setting an ambush groups I have been have at times pulled or pushed an enemy into a space that reduces their numerical advantage or into a place we have an easier time controling. When I think AMBUSH I think of a place completely of my chosing in which the enemy enters at which point we have control of the terain, advantage and likely surprise. This is difficult to do in most adventures (as they are designed). The plots lend themselves to go here kill x, root out monsters from y location, decend into the lair of undeath and emerge hopefully still alive or investigate the goings on at such and such and report back.
As for the lead them back into a trap or to my allies that is how my Neverwinter Nights Rogue 1 beat every monster that could take him. But I always thought that was failed AI that I was exploiting. Though I have this feeling in dungeons from time to time. So why did the card playing orcs not come to the aid of those fighting and dieing in the next room.
As a GM I set all the ambushes and have a few really devious ones that have come up from time to time. But it is the nature of adventure design.
good stuffs
The problem with your typical place set ambush is that it relies on victims of opportunity -- those that wander into you. For a mobile party what the words ambush translates into is 'tactics and strategy' -- it's the same thing in theory you just have to adjust how you do it.
... and the ability to make and use your own poisons, cannot stress this enough. Knowledge/Nature and Craft/Alchemy. Getting Poison Use requires a dip into Rogue (with the Poisoner archetype, naturally).
But lots of the better poisons are plant-based, which means you can grow your own stock. Even mild poisons in large/repeated doses can turn the trick.
Just my .02 on how to survive low-gold/low-magic.
Really, all the crafting skills can be uber-useful if you don't have the wherewithal to buy stuff.
A straight melee monk is not the best choice for this kind of game I would say.
A monk needs high strength to hit and do reasonable damage. Having high strength makes it harder to get high wis and dex making your defenses only average. So you can choose between a decent offence/grapple/trip we and getting repeatedly smacked around or you can not do a lot but not get hit.
In a normal game items can cover the gap (easier to cover defense when you can stack armour, natural armour, deflection and wis bonuses) but you won't have that.
As above, go with cleric. It has so many advantages its ridiculous.
"He's playing a monk but monks suck so stop telling him how he can do better with what he has because he has to become a caster."
Wow -- great job there Lou.
How about we answer is actual question (as we have) offer advice on something that might work better (which people have by suggesting casters) and let him decide on what he wants to do instead of telling him 'the one true way'?
Again though, that's not what he asked for -- also there is a large difference between:
"Hey, look the monk is going to have a lot of trouble."
And:
"Alright people stop telling him how to play the monk better."
The first is good advice -- the second is just bossy and unhelpful (even with the rest of the paragraph).
No one is saying, "Hey just do this and monk will be easy" but that doesn't mean we should be telling people to not give him advice (lots of which he could use easily enough with other characters too) on how to do better with what he has.
How can the eidolon and monk team up to be most effective? Does the summoner and/or sorcerer have some good buffs they can share? The summoner is a 3/4 BAB with 1d8 hit dice and simple weapon proficiency. Can he poke things with a longspear? Be a flank buddy?
Do the sorcerer or summoner have any battlefield control spells that can help the monk and eidolon? Did either of them take an item creation feat to help the party out?
Thanks for help everyone.
Human Monk 6 (with some good 4d6-lowest rolls)
Str 19
Dex 14
Con 13
Int 13
Wis 16
Cha 4Feats
Skill Focus (Acrobatic)
Defensive Training
Power Attack
Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
Dodge (b)
Improved Grapple (b)
Improved Trip (b)
Stunning fist (b)High ranks in movement skills (climb, swim, acrobatics)
The character has already been played so no changes to this.
I realise now that I should have probably swapped skill focus for something like Toughness or Mobility.
Just out of curiosity, have you been able to get any Elven boots for +5 to Acrobatics? The Dodge-Mobility-Spring Attack feat tree is great for Level 9-12+, but I assumed you would need to tumble a lot and get through difficult terrain first. I suggested the Skill Focus (Acrobatics) in case those Elven boots were never bought/found.
With your current build, I would add Combat Reflexes for additional AOOs. Endurance-Die Hard can't hurt, either.
What Kind of monsters does the DM/GM throw at the party?
I have been reflecting on the adventures of times past and thinking about this thread and I realized that no group I have ever gamed with thought much about strategy beyond the next hurdle. All the combos and ingenious things we came up with were improvised on the fly, "on the jazz" for you A-Team fans. We meet up get to know each other, go out and take each challenge as it comes. Overtime there are few cobos that start to repeat itself.
This improvisational approach is what you see in movies, but in reality that is not how a small unit that expects to engage combat for any length of time lasts very long. Special forces teams, police swat teams, military units for centuries work in tandum and improvise on the variables not on the everyday.
Again thanks for the help everyone but as to the other night my monk is no more. A lightning bolt and hit from a stone golem in a surprise round followed up by two more hits from said golem finished me without a chance to do anything. Beginning to think its not my playing but the dms brutal game thats the problem.
So. Who wants to help me create an overpowered cleric? I normally create characters around story not stats but dang it I want to see what I can do in this game.
Its a level 6 character with a 16 point buy, with 4,000gp worth of equipment and using the Core rulebook only.
I was thinking a cleric focusing on summoning, buffing and healing. The summoner and I could summon with the sorcerer standing behind us blasting. Any ideas?
How did the rest of the party fair?