Tying someone up

[Vakil Smallen]

So, Pathfinder doesn't have rope use like 3.5 (at least, as far as I can tell) if you want to tie someone up as a prisoner. The Core Rulebook has a section on "Tie Up" described this way:

Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise
restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up.
This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds
is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead
of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check
every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the
target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing
so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If
the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 +
the target’s CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds,
even with a natural 20 on the check.

So, from my reading, it would work like this: If the target is unconscious or not resisting, he or she is automatically tied up, no check is necessary. And no matter how skilled or unskilled the person tying them up is at using ropes, the DC to escape is related only to the Combat Maneuver Bonus of the person doing the tying up.

However, if the target is conscious, you would have to make a CMB vs CMD roll like any other grapple check.

Is this a correct reading of the rule?

And, if so, why would how good you are at grappling affect how good you are at tying an unconscious person up?

[redward]

I don't know the answer, but I will ask an additional question: if you're using both hands to grapple/pin someone, how do you get the rope out to tie them up?

[Vakil Smallen]

redward wrote:

I don't know the answer, but I will ask an additional question: if you're using both hands to grapple/pin someone, how do you get the rope out to tie them up?

That would explain the -10 penalty. You have to grapple with one hand while holding the rope.

[redward]

Vakil Smallen wrote:

redward wrote:

I don't know the answer, but I will ask an additional question: if you're using both hands to grapple/pin someone, how do you get the rope out to tie them up?

That would explain the -10 penalty. You have to grapple with one hand while holding the rope.

I do get that, but is there an additional move action necessary to produce the rope (whether from your belt, a backpack, or some other place)? Or do you need to have initiated the grapple with rope in hand?

[Vakil Smallen]

redward wrote:

Vakil Smallen wrote:

redward wrote:

I don't know the answer, but I will ask an additional question: if you're using both hands to grapple/pin someone, how do you get the rope out to tie them up?

That would explain the -10 penalty. You have to grapple with one hand while holding the rope.

I do get that, but is there an additional move action necessary to produce the rope (whether from your belt, a backpack, or some other place)? Or do you need to have initiated the grapple with rope in hand?

Not that I see.

[Gnomezrule]

I grapple the foe. Sucess!
The foe tries to break free. Failure!
I want to tie him up this roung. Draw your rope and maintain grapple. Success!
The foe tries to break free. Failure!
I tie up the foe now. Success!

[Vakil Smallen]

Well, my question is more about tying up someone who you aren't grappling. The DC is related to the CMB of the person doing the tying, not any kind of rope use skill, right?

[harte035]

Also, I believe if you have the opponent pinned you can do it without taking the -10.