I first came across this while viewing a flow-chart under the grapple rules at www.d20pfsrd.com. I know that its not an official site but it gave me pause.
To quote the pathfinder Tie-Up rules:
Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin. If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.
So is it possible it reads like this:
Tie Up: If you have your target pinned, otherwise restrained, or unconscious, you can use rope to tie him up. This works like a pin effect, but the DC to escape the bonds is equal to 20 + your Combat Maneuver Bonus (instead of your CMD). The ropes do not need to make a check every round to maintain the pin.
Sentence stops. Start of new thought:
If you are grappling the target, you can attempt to tie him up in ropes, but doing so requires a combat maneuver check at a –10 penalty. If the DC to escape from these bindings is higher than 20 + the target's CMB, the target cannot escape from the bonds, even with a natural 20 on the check.
Since it says grappling and grappling is independent of pin: basically if you pin someone you can tie them up with no check. And if you are just grappling you can attempt to tie-up without pinning first but you must make a -10 CMB check.
Which way is right? I have played that you must first pin, then make a -10 check. However, when I stop to read it I can see how it could be read the other way.
I've always read it as you can tie them up if you pin them, or you can skip it and try to tie them up while grappling, but the bonds are much less secure (-10).
I agree with what Tels said. You have to be grappling your opponent, at the very least. Then if your opponent is pinned, you can tie him up with a normal grapple check. If he's not pinned, you can tie him up with a grapple check if you take a -10 penalty to CMB.
I read it a little differently than tels and hogarth. To me, it seems to say that if you have the opponent pinned, tying him up is automatic, as long as you have rope. If you are merely grappling, you must make a difficult check (-10 penalty) to get him tied up, but once he is tied up, the ropes are no less secure (the -10 penalty is not applied to the dc to escape the rope, only applied to your attempt to tie up your opponent in the first place.)
That is my reading, but the wording has enough vagueness that I will not swear I am right.
I read it a little differently than tels and hogarth. To me, it seems to say that if you have the opponent pinned, tying him up is automatic, as long as you have rope.
It all falls under the heading of:
Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).
...where one of the "following actions" is "Tie Up". Seems pretty clear to me, YMMV.
OK, I see now. Normally, you would need to make a CMB check to maintain the pin. If you choose to tie up your opponent instead, that same CMB would be used to tie up your opponent instead of to maintain the pin.
I read it a little differently than tels and hogarth. To me, it seems to say that if you have the opponent pinned, tying him up is automatic, as long as you have rope.It all falls under the heading of:
Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple)....where one of the "following actions" is "Tie Up". Seems pretty clear to me, YMMV.
Agreed. I had something similar come up in a game last night and it seems that the grapple flow charts need some editing.