wouldn't this also apply to non-society?
even so, there are skills to identify them, generally you don't flat out tell them, you give them a short description (my GM says "3 potions, and an unusual sword" or something similar)
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I always appreciate little tags on magic items saying what they actually are. Very helpful for players. On a side note I don't mind having to figure that stuff out, it can even be fun, but It we spent 1/2 an hour on it and didn't get to finish the mod, I'd be frustrated. (not with anyone in particular.)
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This is an interesting topic; I'm personally torn on it.
On the one hand, I don't want to undermine the folks who have invested in the ability to identify things (like by preparing read magic that day, and then I just tell everybody what's on that scroll).
On the other hand, time can often be an issue, and on top of that, most potions and whatnot probably are labeled, especially when you're in a big enough town that the boss probably bought them off the shelf to hand out to his grunts.
I've done it both ways. Near as I can tell, no one's really cared one way or the other at my tables (though I could be wrong).
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what do you do for the players who insist they don't take 10? are you auto-assuming that the PCs take 10 on spellcraft checks?
In fact in the Bay Area I've never seen something like that happen. Although I did see something like this happen a few times in the Midwest. In one case I didn't see how it resolved, but in the other case the GM just gave everybody their chronicle sheets and left.
If I had only played in the Bay Area I would have thought you were crazy to even bring up the question, but now I'm not so sure.
Is it common where you play, that a GM who rules incorrectly has their game disrupted by players who know the correct rule?
I understand that technically if they choose to take 10 they can't try and roll on the item until tomorrow due to the rules on detect magic however since they aren't making the choice to take 10 I don't count it against them.
I don't want to waste a whole lot of time identifying the items, but I also don't want to give it to the PCs for free (marginalizing people who've bothered to take detect magic and spellcraft). I find my solution a reasonable one for maximizing fun at table without giving away the goods for free.
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What I'm doing is just giving them the info if take 10 would do it. They can roll as normal etc. If a player really would rather spend time rolling dice to ID items than interacting with the scenario in interesting ways I would likely let them. Although they don't sound like a player I would be especially interested in inviting back.
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Back to my question though, how common is people arguing with the GM over a bad ruling in your area? Relating to that, how much arguing do you think is appropriate, if any?
In my area (Minneapolis), it depends on a few things. Some of us nitpicky types tend to pipe up without even thinking about it, just as an unconscious reaction. (Though I think I'm getting better about letting things slide if they're minor.)
To the second question (how much is appropriate), it depends on the situation. For instance, I'll be damned if I'm going to let a GM error kill a PC. But if I knock the BBEG off a 50ft cliff and the GM attempts an Acrobatics check to soften the fall by 10ft, and the 1d6 isn't going to make much difference, then I'd let it slide. (If the Acrobatics check was the difference between 1d6 and falling prone, or no damage and landing on their feet and full-attacking, I might mention that.)
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I was out for a couple of weeks with an eye full of shinglesNasty medical condition, or awkward roofing accident?
Nasty medical condition.
re Nosig: Jiggy and I and others had a long debate about letting the GM or the player make PC stealth/sense motive/certain perception checks, etc. I was just hoping we'd moved on to other topics while I'd been out.
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The only real issue I've had with one way or the other with magical loot is that items my players aren't expecting they'll need, they like to give or trade to NPCs for information or as part of a bribe.I know one scenario where this is expected of them. *whistles innocently*
Which one (you can spoiler it)? I was referring more to the scenarios where the PCs are expected to diplomacy or bribe their way into a place, and failing their diplomacy they bribe the guards with that +1 leather armor they just picked up.
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So I've been thinking about this. Item Cards.
When preparing my next scenario, I'm going to pull out my item cards so that players can just distribute the items the way they want without having to write anything down. And some mini sticky notes that can be attached to each item if they're able to identify them. These I'll just stick to the page.
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As a GM I strive to find ways to make PFS scenarios (linear by nature)
more non-linear in the way that they feel as they're played out.One of the ideas that I have recently been considering is not disclosing the effects of certian found items.
Things like potions should be magical murky vials without labels. It should be up to the PC's to attempt to find out what the have collected from a body.
Magical wands likely have control words to activate. Discovering the secrets of these items could prevent useage until it has been found.
I'm sure there are other examples.
Do any other players or GM's have thoughts on this?
Do you have any idea how easy it is to ID potions? It's a Perception check DC 15+ spell level. So a DC 18 maximum. Many 1st level PCs have that kind of perception.
It's not exactly hard to ID scrolls and other magic items either, all you need is a Detect Magic spell (level 0) and sufficient Spellcraft.
You can Take 10 on all checks when out of combat and/or not stressed.
As a GM, if I didn't know the players, I would wait for them to ask the questions (Detect Magic) and tell me their Spellcraft bonus to see if it's automatic. Potions are basically automatic unless you're running with all Fighters. Asking beyond the first time is basically just wasting time that would be better spent on something fun (like roleplaying).
Ran with a lot of experienced GMs at Origins this weekend and they didn't waste time and just told us what the items were. We had had arcane/divine support, so they could have just Taken 10 on Spellcraft checks. PFS items tend to be weak compared to your level anyway, which makes them doubly easy to ID.
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A lot of players and GMs forget why we play the game: For memorable moments. Whether you ID a magic item is not memorable (at least to me). You remember the funny roleplaying moments, like the following moment at midnight last night.
An Aspis consortium member tries to escape from us by climbing up a ladder. We send a huge constrictor snake to chase him a few rounds later. Little did he know a huge ape animal companion is also climbing (and squeezing) down the ladder. Aspis tries to “Bullrush” through the ape (yuck!), fails miserably, and he crushed horribly to death between the apes butt cheeks and bitten in the ass by the snake. What a horrible way to die. That image will be burned in my brain for awhile. Lol.
If we were wasting time, we would have never had the time for that. And yes, everyone has the right to choose their definition of fun, just remember you can't have everything…
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I think the GM's role is to streamline the game to keep the action moving, and not bog down the players in administrative rolls that ultimately mean very little.
When the players fail to identify that scroll of flaming sphere in one room, and fight a creature with vulnerability to fire in the next, having exhausted all their own fire spells, then that administrative roll can wind up meaning quite a lot. This example is from a recently-run scenario, so I'm not just making things up.