I think Life on Hit is a bit deceptive if you're just judging it by your DPR.
It seems like a better tact to take with life on hit gear to get as many possible hits going at once. The cloud of Shurikens, damaging spikes, sentry, any other aoes/rapid hit abilities you have sound like they'd synergize better with on-hit heals more than big crits.
I just started up with a monk from scratch - the hubub around the patch got me curious enough to fire the game back up. I dunno what it is, but I keep stalling in Act 2.
Every Freaking Time Blizzard sends me through a desert or a sewer in a Diablo game, I just run out of steam after the first trip through.
You've a point. The big hits synergize better with the 2.5%, as a counterpoint.
I'm not sure if Rapid Fire counts as multiple hits. Certainly I'm pumping out 4 shots a second when I rapid fire, which should be 3kish healing/second, but it doesn't seem to return that fast. I dunno, maybe I'm just not seeing it. If Rpaid fire = multiple hits, then a hand crossbow with the right stuff on it should return health VERY quickly.
I'm also not sure if the secondary hits from punctures trigger the Health on Hit. Does one AoE hitting 3 creatures count as 3 hits? That would make grenades rule...but I tried cluster grenades when I went to rescue Leah from Baal, and I definitely wasn't getting enough health back to stay alive. Got swarmed by snakes and mutilated. Baal is going to be...difficult. Maybe grabbing Shadow Power, but the short duration is annoying.
I wish I had ten spell keys so I could switch up tactics between boss and splives as needed. as it is, I have to port back to town to change stuff...the wait for changing icons at Inferno level is dumb.
Baal is going to be a combo of swarm attack vipers, ranged attack avatar, massive blow main form, and one shot kill poison geysers. I'm just shaking my head wondering how I'm going to get through that.
I will look into the Shuriken cloud tonight. Perhaps I'll have to spam the Wall of Blades defensive application, too.
In any event, I'll have to give up my healing xbow to go back to a hand crossbow with a shield. Haven't gotten Hxbow with heal on hit, yet.
==Aelryinth
You're totally right about Cinder Trail being one of the best damage dealers for the Demon Hunter. I hadn't really tried it... until now. I just wasted a pack of Elite Pack Beasts on Inferno in about 5 seconds. Thanks for the tip!
the old version SUCKED. Did like 35% weapon damage over 5 seconds. Meh.
1500% over 3 is huge.
==Aelryinth
Yeah Life on Hit never seems to do much for me.
Baal? Oh you mean Belial, right?
I've been playing my Witch Doctor again, since the last patch. Hell is actually kinda fun now. Still a challenge, but there's more depth to elite fights than "run away while chugging spells over your shoulder". This is good.
So, I finally hit level 60 last night, just as I reached chapter 4. Whew. Upgrading a few items from the AH (seriously, this stuff goes for 2,000 gold? o.O) my health has more than doubled (from around 30,000 to a fair bit over 60,000) and my damage went from around 7,000 to 19,000.
I think Diablo is in for a rude awakening. :p
Yeah, the additional staying power of mutts and zombs is useful.
60k health? Wow, you must be getting a ton of stuff on the Auction House. I may have to break down and grab a decent hand crossbow. I need one with Heal on Hit to do any kind of tanking whatsoever...I need the impact resistance of a shield. The additional rate of fire of a hand crossbow is needed to tank with health.
I wanted to self-equip, but I don't think there's a single elite fight where I haven't died once. I just can't kill them fast enough, and the combos of jailers, walls and vortexes can kill me in under a second.
And I hate burrowers and invisible snakes. Gah. How do you kill them when you can't fight them unless you tank? As soon as I Vault away, they just go invis/dig again.
If you ever want a place to get 5 nehphlim stacks fast, the Vault of the Assassin always has at least 5 elite spawns in it. Ugh. At least you can now tell when the incoming mortar fire is going to hit you or not.
Yeah, I'ma poke around the Auction House tonight. I really need the gear upgrade.
If you have that level of gear upgrade going into Act 4 Hell, it should be a cakewalk, Slaunyeh. I think my guys were in the 20-30k health range, and 10k damage when I did it...but I totally self-equipped, with level 61 gear at best. The only one I haven't done Hell with is my Witch Docter.
I hit level 63 on my DH yesterday. One level a day is slow going, let me tell you!
Got a 993 dmg polearm last night with +1896 heal on hit. I thought that was kind of funny.
When I pump web shot Rapid Fire point blank with a Handcrossbow, enemies almost stop with paralysis. I go through Hate really fast at that time, however. If I had Heal on Hit, I'm imagining I could get health back pretty quick. I know when I use the normal crossbow I don't need to heal as much...but I take more damage and can't tank. :/
==Aelryinth
Yeah Life on Hit never seems to do much for me.
Baal? Oh you mean Belial, right?
Right, right.
==Aelrynth
Upgrading a few items from the AH (seriously, this stuff goes for 2,000 gold? o.O)
Why wouldn't they? People have been farming the game for items since day 1; at this point, the AH is so saturated with decent items that to sell them at all requires pittance selling prices. Note that "ideal/best" items will still command a premium since people are more likely to hold on to them. Basic economics, really - especially now that the AH is actually useable.
Um.
I must be doing something wrong on the Auction House.
When I click on the button, and I'm carrying my Hand Crossbow, the only things that come up to bid on are AMULETS. 47 pages worth of level 61+ amulets.
When I have my xbow in hand, the only thing that comes up are more xbows.
IN other words, it just throws out recommended items and doesn't ask what I really want.
=========
Wow, this was an ugly night.
I've lost over 200k gold from repair bills over salvaged loot.
I lost 60k just trying to kill Zoltan Kule. I didn't realize there's a time limit. If you take too long, he just teleports on top of you and you die. Full life to dead, instantly. And then the energy twisters are basically one shot kills, in addition to the falling ceiling. Two hits from the constructs is death.
Needless to say I did a LOT of running around, and I died a LOT. At the end, I used Shadow Power so I could at least tank for a few seconds and keep up sustained fire.
I have no idea how I'm going to kill belial. I'll never make it past the swarming vipers. It's useless to even try. Maybe a combination of wall of blades and shuriken cloud? My problem is my hand crossbow has no heal on hit, so I have to use my big one, which is naturally slower, and I can't use a shield with it.
Aie, this is not good.
==Aelryinth
If you have that level of gear upgrade going into Act 4 Hell, it should be a cakewalk, Slaunyeh. I think my guys were in the 20-30k health range, and 10k damage when I did it...but I totally self-equipped, with level 61 gear at best. The only one I haven't done Hell with is my Witch Docter.
Yeah, finished that yesterday. Diablo went down like a punk. I think it was easier than Normal. :) Took my first baby step in Inferno today - doing okay, but that's not a surprise. Act 1 is always pretty forgiving.
Well, no, on Inferno, Act I for me was actually a rude wakeup call, if you read up above.
The burrowers are fast and swarm you and bring you down. Fast zombies chase you all over the place. If you're in tight quarters with elites, you're dead.
Now, Witch Docters are lucky because their pets keep the fighting away from you. But when something reaches you and two shots you, you're going to be wincing.
Happily they did away with invulnerable minions, and tweaked some others. But you're going to be suprised just how fast you die, even with good gear.
==Aelryinth
The thing that stopped me flat on Inferno was champions with impossible combo powers. I mow everything else down... though I haven't loaded Inferno since the new patch. I really should. I hear they made it a lot easier.
Now, Witch Docters are lucky because their pets keep the fighting away from you. But when something reaches you and two shots you, you're going to be wincing.
Sounds like I have something to look forward to, then. Sadly, I'm not using pets right now (although I realize they are much more useful after the last patch), so my survivability comes almost exclusively from Spirit Walk. Will be interesting to see how it goes!
I confess to not having used Spirit Walk, so I'm not aware what it does. Can you give me a break down on the tactics?
==Aelryinth
So, I did my first coop game today.
They closed the loophole that starting on one Act in a lower tier meant you could pop to cooperative at the same tier, allowing you to bypass a boss encounter.
So I popped in on a trio that were just getting ready to beat on Belial, and went along for the ride.
And I kept going as people changed in and out, all the way to Diablo.
I was useless on Diablo. I didn't have enough life to soak hits, so I kept getting one shot, and the people kept rezzing me. There was a barbarian there with 80k life! He could survive everything...the other DH and I kept dying and leaving him alone, and not only did he live, he would get both of us rezzed, and we'd keep on going.
Definitely a suboptimal team, but we still got the kill...although we lost our Neph Valor stacks and ended up with crap loot. :(
I accumulated over 50 Tomes of Secrets, and got exactly 4 keeper things...an amulet, a crossbow, a set of bracers, and a shield. Bunch of gems, too.
And it cost me about 200k in repair charges, net of loot. Ugh!
Repair costs are going up with virtual level. It costs me more to repair gear at 65 then 64. I am way losing money playing on Inferno.
On the happy side, I am now flagged for every level of Diablo. On the down side, I'm figuring I'm going to need 50k of life to have any decent chance of staying alive in fights, and I've no clue how I'm going to arrange that. Heh. As it stands, pretty much any two hits from two monsters wipes me at 31k life. Sucks.
So, anyone got a nice handcrossbow (800+) with heal on hit they don't need? heh.
And can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong with the auction house. It is 'giving me' what to look at and bid on. I want to go looking for good loot, not look at bracers.
==Aelryinth
You can do searches for specific things in the auction house. Just look in the tabs and set them to what type of stuff you want.
We Paizonians could keep a lookout for wanted items for each other. Are you on the US servers? If I find a good hand crossbow (or any other significantly sweet loot for DH), I'll hang onto it for you.
I confess to not having used Spirit Walk, so I'm not aware what it does. Can you give me a break down on the tactics?
==Aelryinth
The basic spell makes you invulnerable and gives you a speed boost, plus the ability to run through enemies, for two seconds. 15 seconds cooldown.
A basic tactic can be to hit it, run into a large group, and fire off Soul Harvest. Or, alternatively, run into a large group, fire off Soul Harvest and then Spirit Walk to get away without being boxed in. Or, against champion mobs whenever it's off cooldown to not die. :)
With runes, you can extend the duration of Spirit Walk (to three seconds), give you mana or heal regeneration while Spirit Walk is active (I used the mana regen until last patch. Now I can't run out of mana, so that's largely irrelevant) or let you do damage when you run through enemies, or explode into fire damage when spirit walk ends.
Right now I'm experimenting with the 'run through enemies' damage, though the health recovery is probably better in the long run.
(As an aside, there's a fantastic passive that automatically proc spirit walk when you're killed, preventing your death and giving you a few seconds of invulnerability. 45 seconds cooldown. That has saved my life more times than I can count.)
nICE! Since witch docters dno't get much in the way of healing. That's a nice way to save your own bacon. Have to experimetn with that when I get going through Hell level.
Umbral, yes, I'm on U.S. servers. That would be great if you find one. I've gotten two nice crossbows that do better damage then the one I'm using...but it's got +569 heal on hit, AND 2.5% of damage healed. the others deal almost 30% more damage, esp on crits...but they don't keep me alive.
The only problem is that it doesn't seem to work with Rapid fire. Rapid fire should just race you up in healing...but I think one triggering of rapid fire counts as one hit per target. I heal faster when I'm using Hungering Arrow! I could go to Impale, but Impale uses up Hatred really fast.
I'm desperately in need of higher level armor and higher level ability mods. There's just no way to solo the stuff in Act 3 and higher without it. I tried, and just got my head handed to my on my first elite spawn (fast scavengers...couldn't out run them, couldn't heal fast enough to stay ahead of their damage.)
==
I'm not sure what's happening, but when I use the auction house it's sucking away my gold. I had 1.7 mil yesterday, did nothing to lose money, logged in today, and I was at 1.3, without buying anything.
I'll try to do a search, but when I did it just kept defaulting to what it was pre-set at. It was like I had no choice to search for anything...the only thing I could search was my own stash and character.
Just to make myself feel better, I played through Act 1 on Inferno...and only died three times, every time to Wallers who blocked me in and then jailed/desecrated/chain-froze me. I didn't even change up my config, and I could actually tank some of the elites. I used the Aid Station sentry for more regeneration, and combined with dual heal on the crossbow, a heal from the Templar and him scattering enemies who surrounded me, Preparation for a timely health kick, I could usually kill two of them, then stay ahead of damage for the last two and wipe them.
I'm so irked that you can't change buttons on the fly. The coop game I played was go go go. No mixing up stuff to prep for bosses or different terrain. You had what you had and went with it. It's a full minute to change your configuration unless you go back to town. And of course when you do that you lose nephalim valor stacks, double penalizing you for trying to plan ahead.
The difference in loot once you get that fifth neph stack is incredible. elites went from dropping all magic to all rares. Had a goblin drop three tomes at the same time. Once I gain another forty levels, I should be getting that all the time, and then really good stuff the rest of the time, right? Heh.
===Aelryinth
When you bid on things it puts your bid amount into the auction house whether you win or not. To get the gold back just go to completed tab I think and send the gold back to your stash.
nICE! Since witch docters dno't get much in the way of healing. That's a nice way to save your own bacon. Have to experimetn with that when I get going through Hell level.
Yeah, healing for a witch doctor can be a bit of a challenge. There is a number of skills that can heal you, but they tend to have fairly low numbers. I've been experimenting a bit with the zombie dogs though, with runes they have a fair chance of leaving health globes behind when they die (which they do. A lot) and Sacrifice has a rune that gives me something like 5,000 health for each zombie dog scarified (a 15,000 heal used to be a pretty good chunk of my total health!)
It's just a lot of spells to dedicate to a gimmick.
Yeah, I know about the dogs. Emergency heals, of course. The best defense is, of course, not to fight!
Aranna, that's the point...I haven't big on ANYTHING, and my gold went down. I did put some stuff up for SALE...I dunno, I'm just confused, I guess.
==Aelryinth
You were right about the Monk, Aelryinth. I am motoring through with one. Each of my weapons is heal on hit; one is a flat number (28) and another is 2.8%. I have have, I think it's serenity with the heal rune on my #1 hotkey in case of an emergency, but I've only had to use it once and I'm 2/3 of the way through Act I on Nightmare.
Normal routine: Warp-jump kick to caster/healer/obnoxious guy in the back of all the enemies, start swinging like crazy with crippling wave (?) and the mangle rune (extra damage). Mantra running used to be the one that gave me dodge w/ the armor rune, switched it for the extra damage aura w/ the even more extra damage rune.
If things get hairy (like with champs or elites), use the bell with the rune that makes it's an aoe centered on your dude for big damage and knockback.
Major dudes - refresh extra damage mantra while on top of boss, immediately use seven-sided strike (w/ several sided strike rune) and watch life bar of badguy vanish.
(I got my biggest MASSACRE! call out with this build yet - 63! I'm hoping I can find a room of near endless guys to see if I can't break 75 or 100.
AND Izual dropped the Staff of Herding recipe for my monk, so that was cool.)
--------
I really enjoy how the monk plays. I don't like his story or his conversations with the sidekicks nearly as much as the demonhunter's though.
Serenity is your get out of hell free card...total damage absorption and condition removal, combined with possibly a free heal, or a back in your face explosion.
Seven Sided Strike makes you invulnerable while it is taking effect, so it is ALSO damage mitigation.
I personally use the Mantra of Healing on my monk, and I can tank through just about anything. He doesn't have a heal on hit weapon yet, but he could...
My rote attack is usually lightning fists. It has faster animation, but the best part is it pops around the field. That means he pursues faster; he is hard to surround, and the enemy has to constantly reposition, which means it is swinging at him less. If you get caught in something like a desecration or acid, just pick a different target and teleport away.
But yeah, that AoE Crippling Wave kills a lot of guys really fast, if they are coming to you.
If you want unlimited guys the absolute best place is the start of Act IV, with the terror demon Iskazu and unlimited crawling swarms of shadow guys. How many you can kill before the demon waltzes up and you have to waste him is a different story.
I personally like the soul jar challenge in the graveyard of Act I. It's a true test of killing power and mobility. Lightning fist does awesome because there's no travel time between targets, and you get the AoE. Still, the record of 93? is still my Demon Hunter. Kinda hard to beat not having to move and enemies on all sides. Combine with AoE goodness, sentry, pet, and the scoundrel, and try your luck!
NOte that heal on hit is generally stronger then Life %, especially if you get lots of attacks. A barb with a couple HoH daggers, in frenzy, with Wrath of Berzerker going, and that 3% of damage regen going is pretty much impossible to kill.
==Aelryinth
I have come to the realization that I'll probably need 8000 armor, 25k+ damage, 50k+ Health, and 500+ Resist All in order to be able to tank and heal on Act III nightmare...I just take too much damage, too fast.
The only way to get that is some really good level 63 gear. The only way to get regular level 63 gear is to play Act III or IV Inferno.
Argh.
==Aelryinth
I recently got 105 kills with my monk in that very spot in act 4.
My monk in Hell had issues with dying too much so I just dropped a few hundred thousand gold to re kit her gear. I focused heavily on Vitality this time. I haven't tested it yet but with a DPS of almost 20k in hell I don't have any trouble killing things yet. So I figure the hit points should keep me alive long enough to kill stuff.
I am tempted to play with you online just to see what your doing differently.
I must just have horrible luck with seeing my level 60 gear:P
I did do a lot of upgrading last night. I swapped my super-heal crossbow for one that does more damage...it's only +347 heal on hit, but the damage was ~10k higher because of the +237 dex mod. I swapped around some Dex and Vitality stuff, I was lucky to loot an amulet wiht +160 to both, and I'm doing quite well against Act I elites.
My armor is only 4000. Trying to find high AL peices with Dex, Vit and Resist all is somewhat challenging, as far as loot goes, and anything I see for sale is out of my price range.
My crossbow has a glitch. It gives +87 Vitality, but when I equip it, my Vitality goes up by 210! Needless to say I don't mind a bit.
I actually had 50k life with a mx out dpr of 38k at one point (the DPR for my DH goes up every second because of their enhanced crit Skill increases likelihood of a crit by 3% per second), but I swapped in a different set of gaunts to expand that to 44k damage max and go down to 40k health. 'true' damage is probably half that...but crossbows get big crits.
I immediately noticed that things were dying a LOT faster, especially to Cinder Trail. Even my sentry was putting out pretty good damage.
I'm going to be trying Act II tonight. The big thing that showed me I had problems in Act II was when I had an elite bloated corpse come at me, and I ran through my entire supply of Hatred with Rapid fire webbing shots (meaning it was coming at me slooooooow), and I still couldn't kill it before it reached me. That first elite to kill is always the hardest...but once you cut down the combined damage, the others fall much faster.
==========
ON Hell level, the thing for the monk is damage mitigation.
The seven sided strike and Serenity are the two big ones...you can't be hurt while those are in effect. The mantra of evasion turns hits into misses, which is actually extremely potent when it comes time to tank. If you've other means to heal, it's a good way to kill things.
I used the One with the Elements skill to get up my Resist All early, buffing fire resistance. I had a couple items that gave big boosts for Resist Fire and smaller ones to Resist all...it all stacked.
Right now, on Inferno he's got 650 Resist All and 6000 Armor, reducing incoming damage by 68% and 65%, respectively...meaning he takes WAY less damage then my DH, and that's before the 30% reduction for being a monk, and having a shield to block with! And his gear isn't nearly as good as my DH, overall.
Try to make sure your shield has at least a 20% block chance, and 25% is naturally better. Shields soak a LOT of damage.
I just got a big 2h sword, 1200 dmg , +250 mods to Dex and Vit. It really buffs his damage and Vitality, and I'll try it when I've got a few. However, Mantra of Healing works per hit, and 2h Swords are 1.1 attacks, meaning less healing per hit, and more on overall damage.
I haven't found a decent set of one handed weapons I could use to dual wield and try to heal with that way. The two daggers I had were lower DPR then just usng a one handed axe...
All my Act III stuff so far has been in a party. I'm at something of a loss over what configuration to use...surely Guardian and Aid sentries are great for the tankers, but with the mobile nature of a fight, it's hard to actually use them. I don't know if instead I should be using AoE damage effects, or something else. Shadow Power tends to be unneccessary, I'm already using Brooding and heal on hit, and Shadow Power doesn't last long enough to really help me kill something in group play.
Also, I'm always torn between using Rapid Web shot, which slows stuff down, and either Withering Fire for REALLY long sustained bursts, or Rockets for additional damage, on group play. I use Web Shot because I can set things up on my Cinder trail with it and force them to take a lot of damage, but the tactic is less useful in group play. My 'repeat' is Hungering Arrow, burning, because the 115% +35 penetration + 105% burn over 3 seconds is very good auto-repeat rote damage. I do tend to like the 50% penetrator, however, because it hits multiple targets a LOT more often, which generates both Heal on Hits and more crits. For single targets, the burner is slightly better.
Oh, I don't think we've managed to kill a treasure goblin in Act III yet with a group. Bastard thing.
I've hit level 7 with my DH (yeah, I saw a 15 two days ago...eesh!) and I'm starting to see the results of the additional magic find in the loot quality of some of the stuff I've been getting...the bonuses are higher then before. That's good, because I've still got to solo the end of Act II Inferno, and I've got a lot of level 60's to provide for!
I'm not sure what the increase in xp required per level is, but this level is 18.4 mil, and last level was 14 mil, I believe. Whatever, it's going up, and obviously you should be adventuring on later levels if you want xp.
Last night I started right at ACt I and kept on going...I got 5 Valor stacks fairly quickly and kept them the whole night. I was getting tons of dropped stuff all the time. I killed the Skeleton King without even changing my configuration (the higher DPR of my xbow was very useful!). A couple things were even keepers, but mostly I was rebuilding my cash, which dropped to 900k.
let me tell you, making the highest tier of jewels is EXPENSIVE!
I got back to 1.3 mil, or about 400k profit, by the end of Leoric's mansion, just before you go down into the dungeons. I never died more then once to any elite along the way, and naturally those were either wallers or they suprised me and I couldn't get away.
I am really looking forwards to getting a 1000 DPR crossbow with good mods and seeing just how much difference that kind of damage will make on Act III. More group play on Act III, hoping for a good drop!
I have exactly one one handed weapon with over 900 dmg...it's an axe. I've got a 2h sword with 1200, and a normal bow (non-unique) with 1000 dpr, but its damage is less then my xbow because of mods! I found a 900 dmg daibo, but tossed it in favor of the 2h sword for my monk.
I've got 2 Hand Crossbows, but their DPR is significantly lower then just using my Heavy Crossbow, even though both are also 800 dmg.
I have crossbow that does like 4k more dmg then my current one, if I stick an emerald into it for maxing crit dmg. Unfortunately, it has no heal on hit, and if I stick a purple into it, it does less damage then the one I'm using now. A backup for my scoundrel, I guess.
Still using the Templar. My regen rate is 1k per second, between templar, brooding, magic, and if I pop the Aid Station, a mere 600ish if not. With heal on hit accentuating that, I can recover from damage very fast. I just wish each hit from Rapid Fire counted seperate, I'm not sure they do.
--
Also, last night was the first time I used the ferrets. That was pretty entertaining, watching them go out and fetch my gold. I'm sure they made me an extra 20k or something, and I didn't want to swap them out once I had the valor stacks, so I played the whole night, even the skeleton King, with them.
I generally use the bat, since I'm a rapid fire fiend and need the extra hatred regen. I use the Templar charge/scatter/heal for his level 4, instead of extra hatred regen, as it does a better job keeping me alive...but I do know that Withering Fire with the Templar and the Bat can keep shooting for at least fifteen seconds without a problem...
==Aelryinth
Well, all the way thru act 2, and actually survived the first part of Belial...but died on Belial himself to a stray swat I couldn't avoid, and I couldn't heal fast enough.
Meh. I'm still not up to gear on him, and if I have to rely on mad skillz to avoid those poison geysers all the time, may as well call it done...just an exercise in frustration at that point.
Also, I wanted to see how much loot he spawns with 5 valor stacks, so I didn't switch up my configuration.
You make a ton of money on Act 2...I just cleared two million when I called it a night. In another first, the Thousand Year treasure dungeon popped up...I didn't make it to the end, but when the timer was done I did manage to wipe the entire dungeon without dying, and that probably made up for it. There's four different elite spawns in there.
Tonight is group play...I hit level 10 last night, aiming for 11. Have to clear out my chest and allocate goodies, sell the junk, and get some more loot and xp!
==Aelryinth
I got the henchman for my mage, monk and barbarian all up to level 60, so they can all equip the highest tier of gear. That lets me throw out some lower level stuff with some relief...and it's a convenient place to put my second tier weapons, too.
Actually ran out of 800 dmg base weapons, but as it turns out, it didn't matter, because the str bonus from the 563 dagger was more important then 200 pts of base damage.
I know that PC's have dmg x Stat % = DoT, figuring in crits and whatnot, but does anyone know the damage figure for henchmen? All I can tell is that stat buffs are waaaaay more important then base damage.
---
My monk is using this huge honking 2h sword I found with my DH.
1256 DPR, with +230ish Dex and +386 Vit. It's slow, but it gives him 44k life, 18k damage and wow, can he chop through the swarms with it.
With proper gear, Inferno basic is turning out to be slightly less difficult then Hell was. Of course, no impossible monster combos helps loads. Although the Vortex+Jailer+Plague+Desecration combo is no fun at all. Mortar is a problem for my DH if the enemy wants to melee...if they want to stand back, I can fit inside the arch and generally don't have a problem.
Still hoping for the 1000+ Heavy Crossbow with heal on hit! :)
Happy Labor Day weekend to everyone!
==Aelryinth
Well, made it to level 12 in group play, went down and killed Azmodan twice, and didn't go down and kill him once. Pretty much played through the scenario of act III 3 times. Did okay, the 50k HP sure helps endure punishment that was one shotting me before.
I got no keeper gear for my DH, although I got some knock-offs for my other characters and some henchmen giveaways. Looks like I'm basically going to be left combing through the rare 63 drops for upgradeable gear. The really good stuff is just not that common.
Looks like there's another tier or two of gems you can make, too, only you need books to find them. Hah.
My standard config is Vault-cinder trail, Preparation/Healing 60% (the biggest heal in Diablo!), Sentry (Aid station), Companion (Bat, for Rapid Fire Hatred Regen), Hungering Arrow (Cinder Arrow, for boss killing) and Rapid Fire/Web Shot (to slow stuff down). It seems to work well.
Had one group that was three of us DH's, one with Penetrating Fire, the other with Web Shots. Let me tell you, if something came under sustained fire from the three of us, it didn't last all that long.
I'm not sure if it's just my experience, but about half the players use DH's. It seems pretty popular, not sure why. Perhaps it gets the highest DPR of the types?
==
It used to be wizards but now that people know the system better they realize DHs are stronger.
My monk rebuild let me cake walk hell.
But I am helpless in Inferno... After the hard time I had just getting to the skeleton king I realized there was no way I would make it past the butcher. So now I am stuck in Inferno with two characters who can't advance... I must be doing something seriously wrong if so many others are getting so far in inferno.
Inferno is all about the level 60 gear.
If you have level 61-62 gear you can TEAR through Inferno.
First of all, are you using a shield? It's kinda neccessary until you get higher end gear.
What mantra are you using? I focus on Healing for the regen and free heal on hit.
Note: Your Ally's damage is based on your weapon's base damage, but it's attack speed is constant. So, if you are using a big weapon as opposed to two small weapons, the Ally does MORE damage.
Would you like some gear? I have extras, especially weapons, I can drop on you...800+ dmg weapons, Dex/Vita mod amulets and rings, etc.
I'm Aelryinth#1804 if you want me to fit you up. Just let me know...I'll be in game most of the day, I think.
==Aelryinth
No shield. I use two weapons 880 dps main and 740 dps off hand both 60+ level weapons. Both with a minimum of 250 Dex adds. The weaker one is also a convert to life weapon.
All of my gear is mid to upper 50s with a few 60+ items.
All of it is rare or legendary.
My friend says I need more resists... my best resistance is 90. But I don't want to lower my dex or vit to get them up. Most of my gear is dex/vit based. Except my legendary goldskin armor.
I use healing mantra with spirit regen currently.
Surviving in Inferno is all about the Resist All. Your ultimate goal is a Resist All in excess of 650, and your Fire Resist maybe over 900! (mortar, fire ranged attacks, etc).
Do some tests with your weapons, and you'll find that equipping a shield with a good dex/vit mod doesn't take your damage down much, but your survival goes WAY up.
So, you need to get resist All up. Happily, this isn't as bad for Monks as other classes, because your highest resist can be ALL your resists, if you use that skill.
If that means you have to give up some dex and vit, do it. My monk has 650 Resist All (he uses fire res+res all as his base), which is 65% damage reduction. That's right, he's taking 1/3 of the damage you do. His Dex and vit aren't quite as high as my DH...because he doesn't need it. He takes a ton less damage then she does.
A shield also adds directly to your Armor, it absorbs some damage directly, AND it gives a block chance, which is 0 damage.
If you're going to use two weapons, you basically need heal on hit on BOTH of them to be able to tank...and that is VERY difficult to arrange. The tests show that using two weapons is maybe a 15% Attack Speed increase...on the average of the two damages, because you are trading attacks. In other words, if you attack with one weapon, all attacks are with that weapon, and all bases that work off it are on that larger weapon.
If you attack with two weapons, it's on the average, which will be LOWER.
So, my recommendation is this: Find some dex or vit or dex/vit gear with Resist All, OR with a single REsist (fire primary, poison maybe). You can even do Physical if you like!
Get your resist all up. Getting to 400 Resist ALL is like doubling your Vitality, because you're taking 1/2 dmg. Getting a 1000 AL shield will do much the same.
Don't try 2 weapons on Inferno without the defenses to stay alive, you've just got no chance. I didn't even TRY a big weapon or dual wield until my defenses were in place. And as it turns out, big weapons seem to have bigger combined mods and more damage then one handers dual wielded do.
That 1200 DPR Sword up there? When I equip it over my 913 dmg axe + shield, dmg goes up by 4k and hp by 7k...and that's with Vit Mods on both weapon and shield. IT's just a huge honking shield.
Also, I recommend sweeping strike as your attack skill, with teleporting lightning fist as backup. With the highest tier sweeping strike, you have a built in AOE with easy repeating power that also reduces damage down. I can't die to a swarm...I regen life too fast, and kill them all too quickly. My axe has 300 heal on hit via gemstone, and the Healing Mantra. When that area burst hits everything, I'm healing for thousands at a time. I'm in the most danger when taking on just a couple elites at one time, because I don't heal for as much, and they are putting out the beat down.
I got my monk up all the way through the Butcher, and there was only one elite fight when I was in danger...four of them surrounding me at one time, and I was down to a sliver of life before I offed one of them, had to pop a potion, and then did for the rest.
My normal layout is the Heal that grants you +15% dmg for 45 seconds...the boosted heal version's extra 3k of life isn't as important as an extra 2000 DPR at this level: Serenity that heals, especially when confronting a big oncoming attack, like a power strike;Mantra of Healing for the regen and heal on hit; Mystic Ally, wind, for another 30% dmg, +10% AOE damage which wears away everything AND occupies one or another of my foes as a very useful damage sink; Sweeping Strike that reduces damage of foes for 3 seconds; and Teleporting FIst, for mobility and catching up to them damn treasure goblins (I did away with wave of light...with Sweeping Strike, I don't need it).
His normal health is around 30k, and he can tank, and tank, and tank. I have to try him out on Act II stuff, and I'll probably have to be more careful, but I don't expect difficulties from normal spawns.
----
As an aside, I was looking at someone playing a barbarian yesterday, and he had very high str and Vit, 1200 in each, but his primary emphasis was getting his Resist All up...he had 70+ Resist all on 5 peices of armor, the bastard! His weapon was only 880...I had better weapons.
On Inferno, I had to ditch the +dmg Rings and Amulets, and go straight to Dex and Vit boosters. No more 8-16 + Gem stuff. As a matter of fact, I'm trying to move away from Gem stuff entirely. Realize that gem stuff occupies a slot on armor, and that slot could be giving you +60 to +200 to a stat, or Resist All, or whatever...and instead you're stuck with +32 to vit or dex. So, try to upgrade from gem gear...it IS an upgrade.
Example: My Monk has an axe with a gem slot. A ruby would give +18 to damage. Well, +20-80% dmg blows that away, or big fixed holy/fire/poison etc. I've seen 500 heal on hit on one handers...the gem only gives 300, etc.
I got very lucky on my DH and got a +180 to Dex and Vit amulet, which really helped out with hit points. She's basically all in unique gear now, and the only things with gems are her helm (optional, +25% xp Ruby in it) and her quiver (+42 Dex gem). I'm still looking for some dex/vit/resist/+Move% boots, and a truly uber crossbow.
I can kill routine monsters on Act 3, but elites just devastate me. Unless I can get my resist fire over 700, and have a truly excellent hand crossbow I can use with a shield, I'm not going to be soloing III anytime soon. I still get two or three shot all the time, and it's very annoying.
==Aelryinth
Aranna,
I've gathered together a bunch of level 61-62 gear for you, take it or leave it...if you don't want it, I'll just sell it. It's not my best stuff, because I'm wearing that, but it should help you get by as you upgrade.
Just remember, Resist All for a Monk = Highest Resist with One with the Elements. Build on that...it's a lot easier to buff a single Resist at the beginning.
Indeed, I was using +Physical resist originally!
==Aelryinth
Aranna, I looked over your character.
Nice legendary bp! It just glows on direct view...and I see you made your helm invisible to complement it. Heh!
Okay, It looks like you bought some stuff in the auction house and you're finding out why it was so cheap.
You're trying to do DPS, and finding out it isn't working. You need those defenses. The DPS class is the Demon Hunter and the DH can't tank. THe Monk is the best of the tanking classes.
1) Pick one of your weapons and put in the heal on hit stone to up your healing in combat. Get rid of the emerald or the ruby...the damage they give you is too small to worry about.
2) Wow, that's the highest dex I've seen on any character. My DH is about 1400. Guess what? You're probably going to lose about 700 of it. you've got to raise Vit, AND you've got to raise your resist all. Trying to win a DPR contest on Inferno is impossible...you're going to get hit, and you're going to die. You've got some nice toys that give you a good combined Dex/Vit, you'll be keeping some of them (jewelry, etc), but you're going to swap out a lot.
3) I notice you've got a lot of magic find on there. That's good, that'll get you good gear, but for the head slot, it's a lot of xp to keep levelling, and you might want a ruby there.
Keep key peices of armor on hand, and swap them in when you do Resplendent Chests. Every little bit helps. But when fighting, be in combat gear.
4) Once you get your Resist ALL to at least 300, equip a shield and test out your tanking ability. I'd probably lose Tempest Rush for Mystic Ally...the extra damage you are giving up? Mystic Ally takes care of it for you. Your damage is probably going to drop to 10-12k...that's fine, you're going to be able to last so much longer in combat it's not funny.
Note that for Mystic Ally, a big weapon is better then a fast weapon...but a fast weapon is better for Heal on Hit.
5) Eventually, some year, you'll get your Dex back to that lofty number you have now, but it's going to take a lot of good gear. My DH doesn't have Dex that high because I need Vit more to endure getting hit (my co-op layout I hit 50k hp now!)
6) I play in the evenings, I notice you friended me during the day. I have some loot in my chest, and some on a minor character. If I'm online, just create a level 1 game and ask me to join...I'll grab my level 32 monk and get all the stuff for you.
7) The only level 60 class I don't have is my Witch Docter, and oh god. I got the perfect levelling tool. It's a 668 damage bow with level req reduced by 12. That's right, it's a level 60 weapon a level 48 can use.
My DH has it now, and I expect Hell difficulty isn't going to be a challenge until Act 4. He's already at 5k damage at the beginning of Hell!
8) One of the most annoying things about Inferno is that it drops Tomes of Secrets, but not the lower level books you need to craft Square Gems...those are on Hell difficulty. I now have 443 Tomes of Secrets, but I don't have the money to use them, or the gems to work up, because I can't combine the square gems I get all the time as loot drops.
Ah, well, I suppose I can just sell them.
==Aelryinth
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Did anyone here play the original Diablo?
I got my first Inferno Legendary. Well, second, but the level 55 Staff was next to useless. Impressive at level 55, but useless on Inferno.
I got:
The Obsidian Ring of the Zodiac.
Remember that? +30 Resist All and +25 to every stat, I believe?
Well, this Legendary Version is ~+35 to all four stats, and +88 Resist All. It takes 4k off my damage, but gets my DH Resist All to 68% damage mitigation.
I went through Act II today, and I had none of the normal problems I had last time I did this...my damage was high enough even the elites didn't seem as dangerous.
At this time, I'm really waiting on a good crossbow to get me over the 50k avg DPR hump (really, it's probably 25k, but the Increased Crit chance cycles up until that first shot is a crit).
This is why I think DH's are better with big crossbows then hand crossbows, at least for DPR. A normal crit is +50% dmg. A crossbow with Archery is +50% dmg on crit. Sharpshooting is +3% crit chance per second, until you get it and it resets.
There's a LOT of weapons that give massive crit boosts...and a gem that does +80%, even.
I've seen a 60k crit with my crossbow. A hand crossbow is like 2 seconds ahead of me in crit frequency, but my crit damage is so much higher...
Ah, well, I still want a hand crossbow for those times I really want to shoot fast and pour out the status effects. I've got a couple that do good damage, but dual wielding both of them, even though their listed DPR is higher then my crossbow, my DOT actually drops about 10k. Those monster crits I get are impressive!
==Aelryinth
I'm curious because I haven't observed it.
Any of you DH players, using Hungering Shot. The one that triples when it passes through...do each of those shots also have a chance to keep cycling? Mathematically, you could potentially get unlimited shots that way, and just one shot something, so I don't think they do.
Hungering Shot is one reason why DH can out damage most classes. The basic shot is 110%, with 35% to penetrate. That is effectively +50% damage with the penetration, so 165% over time, auto hitting attack.
If you like status effect multiple hits, then the first option is to raise the penetration to 50%, and each successive hit does that. You have a better chance at hitting 4 targets/same target 4 times with this shot then hitting 3 targets with a normal shot (1 in 8 vs 1 in 9).
However, on Inferno I'm using Cinder Arrow. This is because there's almost nothing that you can kill in two shots except the very weakest stuff...and then you kinda gotta crit. And in co-op, well, 4x hit points means you always have to shoot something multiple times.
Cinder Arrow is 110%, +35% for 3 seconds. That's 215% damage, auto hit, every shot...and it has a 35% penetration chance, which mathematically is about +50% dmg.
So, yeah, a Cinder Arrow, every shot, averages out to 321% damage. I'm not sure how this competes with the 50% shot's chance for more and big crits, but it's really, really hard to argue with that guaranteed 105% damage. You just gotta be patient and watch the enemy burn...
It's actually probably more damage then Rapid Fire, but Penetration tends to go to other nearby targets, where Rapid Fire is directly aimed and you can focus better.
I do know that with my damage loadout, I'm hitting that 47k top end. That's pretty sweet.
Not enought to let me survive Act 3 solo, however.
Say, here's a thought...can you use Cinder Trail on Belial? Because that would be a LOT of damage...if he's taking damage from the entire trail at the same time...
==Aelryinth
Envy on the Zodiac Ring.. Have you been able to solo Ghom on Inferno? I've rocked out every act and had no trouble with the game.. until this guy. I tried him about thirty times before Hurricane Isaac knocked out the power, and am trying him again with little success. My Wizard is actually doing better at it..
No, I haven't killed Ghom. I haven't even killed Belial yet. I've made it TO Belial (in Hell, that in itself was a big trick).
Are you using a DH, or something else?
I've killed him on co-op. That tends to be an exercise in patience, because he's got just a zillion health. Poison clouds all over the place make it hard to run and recover.
My tactics on Ghom tend to be leave a sentry in the middle of the room out there to shoot him while I run around trying to dodge the poison clouds and killing the little upchucks he throws at me. If I can cinder trail him, all the better. Hungering arrows can seek him out even if I don't have line of sight, and that helps. So does doing a lot of damage per shot.
But killing Ghom in Hell was an exercise in patience and leading him around the dance floor. Inferno is just going to be worse.
Wizard just uses Hydra for the same reason...try to stay alive and just Hydra him down. Seeking magic missiles help accentuate stuff. You need a lot of DPR to do this in a timely manner, however.
But, no. I can't even handle an elite spawn in Act 3, and haven't soloed Belial, so I haven't taken on Ghom, either. I'd probably need to change configs to do it, too.
==Aelryinth
Someone was nice enough to help my wizard upgrade her gear last night, but she's still getting her ass kicked in inferno act 2.
Seriously, act 1 was playable. Act 2 I'm lucky if I survive two hits.
Really? I mean REALLY?
You're using the wrong Armor.
The highest grade of force armor reduces any hit to a maximum of 1/3 your hit points. That's the default Inferno armor level. Power Smite from the Bone king dealing 100k dmg? 1/3 max.
I actually saw a build where a fellow took off ALL his Vit items, reducing his HP down to 5k, and upped his regen/rd to 1500 or so. Basically, if he wasn't getting hit more then 1/rd, he'd regen or heal on hit back to full before a second hit landed.
It was an interesting idea, kind of bogs down in play with swarms...but note how that dovetails with Diamond Skin. The highest Diamond skin 'gives' you 21k in life. If an incoming blow is reduced to 1700 damage, that is a lot of swings your Diamond Skin can take.
My mage tends to do better with Belial then my other characters simply because of that force armor. With good regen, heal on hit, and Diamond Skin, he can beat on her and she simply won't go down. If you use the timer reduction skill, you can actually have Diamond Skin up 80% of the time and are effectively almost invulnerable.
My mage can live through a belial poison geyser. That's impressive.
I always play Mage with Templar for the extra Regen. With that and the Force Armor and Diamond Skin, tanking isn't as hard as it used to be. Just have to be able to bring the beat down on an enemy quick, and Teleport to get out of dodge if things don't work out well.
Also, you need to check your Resist All. Wizards should have the highest Res All, other then Monks using One WIth All. Anything to reduce incoming damage.
=+Aelryinth
I guess I need to re-evaluate my powers.
I've been trying to catch up to a couple of buddies who have a DM and Barbarian on Inferno and have gotten a Monk up to 57 at this point. Started have some trouble surviving in the middle of Act II so I took a stroll through the Auction house and started buying gear that had arcane resist and resist all. Also found a new amazing fist weapon that blew my previous one out of the water.
Switched some skills around and I wound up going from around 6500 dps to 10100, my health jumped from 12000 to 18500, and I have Serenity with the Heal rune and the holy breath heal with the extra damage for 45 seconds rune on my 1 & 2 keys. Seven sided strike is still on #3 but I swapped out the rune that stuns for the rune that teleports to the target and I have the healing mantra with the spirit regen on #4.
I used to have the teleport-kick dash on #2 to get around and the sweeping wind 6-second aura thing that stacks up to 3 times on my right click. I dropped the 3 stack aura for the teleporty thunder fist.
Main results: My mobility is largely unaffected and I'm generating spirit to bounce around now instead of spending it & if I cycle the 1 and 2 abilities well, I can heal about once every 10 seconds - though with the fist I found so long as I'm hitting things my heal on hit is enough to keep me safe unless I'm in a plague/desecrate combo or some other painful mess.
After I use the #2 heal, my dps jumps to almost 12000, and my main attack is still crippling wave. I'm still bouncing between runes on that one though - trying to find one I like with my swapped out setup.
I dropped the 10-minute mantra passive for the passive that makes all your resistances equal to your highest and what a crazy difference! I'm taking 45% less damage from nearly everything now.
Still shopping for a new hat and a sweet shield, and if I find some good ones I'll have a 54% to dodge attacks, at least a 20% chance to block the ones I don't dodge, and then ultimately take at most half damage from anything that ever manages to get through to me.
With an attack speed of 1.87 attacks/second - I feel like an unbreakable whirlwind of death. This is MUCH more fun than any other character I've tried.
Oh, "Coffeegolem" is my screen name if anyone wants to friend me.
No #number, Coffee?
Dal, just be careful going into Inferno.
The noob creatures in INferno hit harder then the creatures in Act 4 in Hell. It sounds like you've a good setup, however. I use the Crippling Wave 'reduce enemy damage 20%' as opposed to the Sweeping Strike "increase damage", simply because Inferno damage is so high.
But my monk RACED through Act I once he was set up right. Sounds like you are well on your way, however. You must be getting some good level 60 gear with lowered level requirements!
==Aelryinth
Indeed - my fist weapon especially. It's a level 60, -4 level requirement and the buyout was only 5000 gold. I think the person who put it up missed a few zeroes or just didn't care all that much.
I love it when that happens in the AH. =)
Well I went shopping... The nice thing about my awesome legendary armor is I can gold find my way and make up what I spend in purchases. My best resist is now 495 fire... but nothing is less than 410. The difference is staggering. I can slaughter things that one shot killed me before. I lost about 5k in DPS so far but hardly notice it, since I am using a slightly smarter skill selection (I think).
Oh and yes I made my helm invisible... call me vain but I want to look good when I kill the boss.
I work nights... So I am only on at night on the weekend depending on my plans.
My friend loves my armor too. She says when it spawns those extra gold drops that she gets them too. I have no way to check it but hey anything that makes me popular to travel with is desirable.
Oh and even with my lower primary stat I am still killing things about three times faster than my wizard most of the time. So monks are good Deeps. I don't think the DPS stat accurately relays how effective you are at killing. My pink wizard will be my next work in progress once I get confident with the monk on inferno again.
I am puzzled at all the Belial angst. While I have never fought him on Inferno yet, in Hell he was easy enough to solo even with my poorly made characters. Just stay mobile and most of his attacks won't hit.
There are two ways to avoid the poison breath and the poison pools are easy to step away from.