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Does anyone else think this bears a distinct resemblance to "Dies the Fire?"
Er... what?
Need to reference a bit more than a one word statement.
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SM Stirling's Dies the Fire, first of the Novels of the Change.
And yes ... kinda
My reaction to the first 60 seconds or so of the preview was "Holy Crap, is it Dies the Fire?!?!?!" ... but the fact the dohickey produces power kinda shattered that impression ... as well as the fact that it went ahead and jumped forward 15 years. ;)
the blackout does look like it originated in the general area of Nantucket though ...
I'm gonna give it a chance. J J Abrams has produced some good shows. I liked Lost, and I liked Felicity because Keri Russell is so hot...
I just discovered that a preview of the 1st episode is on Hulu.
I'll post again after watching it
A lot of questions, especially about tech, but it was enjoyable. I'll definitely give it a chance. It had a low-tech, adventure vibe to it, which works for anyone who likes to roll d20s.
After watching the trailer, I am still on the fence.
Biggest complaint so far is that, even though in 15 years we apparently have lost the majority of firearms, Chicago is getting consumed by nature, etc, all the characters appear to still shop at the Gap.
Also apparently all J.J. Abrams shows need a likeable fat nerdy guy.
But the end fight scene was awesome.
I'll check it out at the very least.
I see where you are coming from, MMC, but truth be told, clothes are so overproduced in this country that I would believe people having clothes that look relatively rakish. I do think that guns would be horded, there should be many more. I think the show should be pushed up to 30 years instead of 15.
The main character (Charlie) was a little girl when the lights went out. They obviously wanted a young hottie for the part. There are plenty of 30 something beauties (like the doctor who went with her. Daddy like!), but young eye candy keeps the youngsters watching.
It was mentioned that you could be killed for having a firearm, so the people with the power have the guns. Capt. Neville has a modern pistol, but most of the guns were old school.
It was an interesting premiere, and I'll take any excuse to watch a sword fight. Cautiously optimistic.
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I thought it reminded me of Dies the Fire right when I saw it also. Having watched the preview it reminds me of Dies the Fire crossed with modern YA fiction a step or two up from Twilight.
I wondered if the show would have been based off Dies the Fire if not to avoid copyrights and avoiding certain 'cultural changes' that Stirling presented in Dies the Fire like
The people in power could very well have the guns, but from what we are shown most of the soldiers in the bad guy army only rely on muskets and swords. Good guns seem to be in the hands of officers. I could totally see a bad guy militia trying to collect guns and limit their use, but it's kind of pointless when all your foot soldiers can't have them either
While their might be stockpiles of clothing, how long would they last? hand laundry is going to be harsh, and cloth isn't plastic...It will be ruined by decay, etc before long.
You guys realize this is *fiction* right?
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What could possibly make you think that we *didn't* realize it was fiction? We are, after all, making some comparisons to the fiction it was loosely based off of.
Additionally as it is fiction based around the real world (it isn't a fantasy world, after all, it is in the "what if" genre of fiction), making comparisons to what some would expect the world would be like *if* an event like that happened makes perfect sense.
To which I respond "suspension of disbelief" (i.e., Star Wars has dogfights in space).
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I liked the pilot. It's a fun post-apoc premise and there's some interesting ideas presented. The major flaw character wise is the son--basically the whole storyline is started is because one boy decided to risk the lives of his entire family and village because he felt stubborn and invincible. I kind of hope he dies, and I imagine the show wants me to think he's an amazing hero.
I do need to think the rules of the world need to be established consistently. I don't care of the rules of the world defy the current laws of physics, but I still want to understand how they work. First they say nothing electronic work. But then they say combustion engines don't work, which are not electronic (though newer ones may be started with an electric starter). There's also the issue of firearms working--gunpowder itself seems to work, but they use some guns with old musket-type loading systems.
That said, I still enjoy the general idea of the series and many of the characters ARE worth watching, so I look forward to seeing how they develop it.
I am not familiar with Dies the Fire so I can't compare, though if it's any good I'll look it up.
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To which I respond "suspension of disbelief" (i.e., Star Wars has dogfights in space).
Suspension of disbelief is fine. But when you are talking about an alternate history set in the real world, then discussions about what folks view as possible shortcomings with the way the world is depicted (i.e. - preevent clothing remaining intact and in good condition 15 years after all widespread manufacturing was stopped, etc.) is to be expected. This does not translate to not realizing it is fiction that is being talked about.
As to Dies the Fire it's an entertaining read and I would recommend checking it out. And yes, suspension of disbelief is required. ;)
THANK GOD I'm not the only one who wanted to smack him. That scene could have been done SOOOO much better, but they really went the testosterone route, which was the wrong way.
I liked the pilot. It's a fun post-apoc premise and there's some interesting ideas presented. The major flaw character wise is the son--basically the whole storyline is started is because one boy decided to risk the lives of his entire family and village because he felt stubborn and invincible. I kind of hope he dies, and I imagine the show wants me to think he's an amazing hero.
I do need to think the rules of the world need to be established consistently. I don't care of the rules of the world defy the current laws of physics, but I still want to understand how they work. First they say nothing electronic work. But then they say combustion engines don't work, which are not electronic (though newer ones may be started with an electric starter). There's also the issue of firearms working--gunpowder itself seems to work, but they use some guns with old musket-type loading systems.
That said, I still enjoy the general idea of the series and many of the characters ARE worth watching, so I look forward to seeing how they develop it.
I am not familiar with Dies the Fire so I can't compare, though if it's any good I'll look it up.
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Hrrrm. For now, I want to say that at this point in the show's development (i.e. the very beginning), the writers had bloody well better know exactly what caused the blackout, why electricity doesn't work, and why combustion engines don't work.
I don't want to be fed garbage that was Lost and BSG.
Overall, it was... okay. The son is indeed annoying (and I wouldn't cry at his demise), the villains are stupid as hell ("Shoot him! Even though we want him to answer questions! We're idiots!") and even a bit grating (if you have a reason to be nasty, fine. If you're nasty for the sake of nastiness, then you suck and aren't worth watching). The varying tech just seems weird right now.
Hrrrm. For now, I want to say that at this point in the show's development (i.e. the very beginning), the writers had bloody well better know exactly what caused the blackout, why electricity doesn't work, and why combustion engines don't work.
I don't want to be fed garbage that was Lost and BSG.
Overall, it was... okay. The son is indeed annoying (and I wouldn't cry at his demise), the villains are stupid as hell ("Shoot him! Even though we want him to answer questions! We're idiots!") and even a bit grating (if you have a reason to be nasty, fine. If you're nasty for the sake of nastiness, then you suck and aren't worth watching). The varying tech just seems weird right now.
In fairness, the Marshal didn't know why he was to take in the one man, just that he was supposed to. And the man got shot because he placed himself between Idiot Boy and the Marshals, and Idiot Boy, unlike Greedo, shot first. That said, I agree they were too quick to violence but they are limited in their role as Evil Law Enforcement to do much else--and I agree with you not sticking to that trope might have had merit.
Initial thoughts after watching this pilot.
I really hope they have a good reason to explain why electricity doesn't seem to work (are they just suppressing technology/has physics changed). Are there no thunderstorms any more? No static electricity? Can electric eels still shock their prey? They're describing it so far like everything just doesn't work now, not that it was just fried by an EMP or something.
Assuming it isn't an act of nature that a select few (such as her father) knew was coming, what's the benefit of destroying the world as we know it? Hopefully this becomes clear. I'm guessing (maybe some) of the people with the power medallions were trying to stop it?
Why is the woman who took care of the brother before the thugs showed up have such an ancient setup for her PC? Obviously the pendants restore power to devices. Wouldn't she have a more modern machine (current as of the blackout)? How does she communicate with her remote contact - some kind of wireless radio transmitter I assume. I guess radio waves still work?
The AC/DC google guy should probably have lost a few pounds after 15 years of subsistance living.
There are way too many modern guns and there are plenty of non-electric machines around that it would be a long time before people would need to resort to archaic ball and powder weapons. Especially these militia thugs who presumably are operating from what was military/national guard type supplies.
As for how everything is overgrown, this isn't too awfully far fetched given the timeframe. I saw a good series a few years ago called Life After Man or something like that where they talked about how the world would change if people were suddenly gone. Nature would quickly overtake the remains of our buildings, roads, etc. An actual example was showing the state of things in Russia near Chernobyl. The evacuated areas have fallen to ruin rather quickly there.
Wonder where she got the sweet Return of the Jedi lunchbox? Was it something of her father's? She's too young to have had it when she was a kid if it wasn't a hand me down.
Overall the show has me curious to see how well they can write themselves around some pretty big issues. A lot of suspension of disbelief required but seems entertaining so far.
In fairness, the Marshal didn't know why he was to take in the one man, just that he was supposed to. And the man got shot because he placed himself between Idiot Boy and the Marshals, and Idiot Boy, unlike Greedo, shot first. That said, I agree they were too quick to violence but they are limited in their role as Evil Law Enforcement to do much else--and I agree with you not sticking to that trope might have had merit.
Indeed, but I'm actually thinking more of the dummies going after the brother/uncle (who specifically did yell "Shoot him").
There's going to have to be some exposition of how things got the way they are. We might see some flashbacks and/or new characters showing that.
The pilot wasn't as thrilling as the first episode of Lost, but it shows us who's who, and Giancarlo Esposito is an awesome bad guy.
The acting wasn't uniformly great, but I remember Legend of the Seeker was a little weak starting out, but after a few episodes, you could tell the actors were getting better with their roles.
I want to like it. We'll see.
Initial thoughts after watching this pilot.
I really hope they have a good reason to explain why electricity doesn't seem to work (are they just suppressing technology/has physics changed). Are there no thunderstorms any more? No static electricity? Can electric eels still shock their prey? They're describing it so far like everything just doesn't work now, not that it was just fried by an EMP or something.
Assuming it isn't an act of nature that a select few (such as her father) knew was coming, what's the benefit of destroying the world as we know it? Hopefully this becomes clear. I'm guessing (maybe some) of the people with the power medallions were trying to stop it?
Why is the woman who took care of the brother before the thugs showed up have such an ancient setup for her PC? Obviously the pendants restore power to devices. Wouldn't she have a more modern machine (current as of the blackout)? How does she communicate with her remote contact - some kind of wireless radio transmitter I assume. I guess radio waves still work?
This is pure speculation, but especially as this was something that was predicted, my guess whatever caused the blackout was an intentional event. Perhaps something is emitting a low grade field which disrupts electronic devices on a constant basis (the question then would be where is it and how come no one has found it?). The pendants with the USB drives have the ability to disrupt the field in a very small area.
The low tech computers would probably be because even being able to disrupt the field, they still probably need computers that don't require a lot of power to run -- hence the retrograde PC. Also, the older/lower tech the parts, the easier to find/assemble and pass off as trash if anyone finds them.
The AC/DC google guy should probably have lost a few pounds after 15 years of subsistance living.
Not necessarily. The physiological factors leading to how a person is built are more complex. Sure, living in a society where you're going to be doing a lot of physical labor and eating non-processed foods will make it less likely you will take on or maintain excess weight, but other factors like genetics, body chemistry and what exactly you're eating or what medicines you are taking (even homebrew herbal remedies) will also be a factor. If you take 10 people with different body types and all put them on the same level of diet and exercise for a year, at the end of the year the 10 people will still have different body types at the end of that year, and different people will have lost or gained different levels of weight even though their intake and activity was the same. And there are overweight or thick built folk in subsistence cultures today--not many, but there are.
Besides, he might have been very heavy and is now only moderately stout. :)
Not to belabor the point but it is a pet peeve of mine that people tend to oversimplify how weight loss and gain works for people. I'll leave it at that.
There are way too many modern guns and there are plenty of non-electric machines around that it would be a long time before people would need to resort to archaic ball and powder weapons. Especially these militia thugs who presumably are operating from what was military/national guard type supplies.
Yeah, they were not clear about how firearms and other machines work in relation to everything else. There seems to be a fallacy that electronic = mechanical, but then that is not even consistently maintained. I hope they clear it up.
As for how everything is overgrown, this isn't too awfully far fetched given the timeframe. I saw a good series a few years ago called Life After Man or something like that where they talked about how the world would change if people were suddenly gone. Nature would quickly overtake the remains of our buildings, roads, etc. An actual example was showing the state of things in Russia near Chernobyl. The evacuated areas have fallen to ruin rather quickly there.
"Life After People" -- the original documentary. It is a very fascinating documentary. The TV series that followed it starts to get a little more farfetched at times but it still has some interesting ideas. And you're right, it does NOT take long for things to get overgrown. I've seen buildings in the city that when I first arrived were only just abandoned and just 10 years later have plants growing out of the windows, etc.
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The show will live or die on its characters. I can forgive bad science but not bland or unappealing characters. So far the only stand out is the badass uncle.
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SM Stirling's Dies the Fire, first of the Novels of the Change.
And yes ... kinda
My reaction to the first 60 seconds or so of the preview was "Holy Crap, is it Dies the Fire?!?!?!" ... but the fact the dohickey produces power kinda shattered that impression ... as well as the fact that it went ahead and jumped forward 15 years. ;)
the blackout does look like it originated in the general area of Nantucket though ...
OK that looked...hokey!!! I mean really That dude stole the Internet. Some one needs to hand his terrorist arse.
The show will live or die on its characters. I can forgive bad science but not bland or unappealing characters. So far the only stand out is the badass uncle.
He was okay. I liked the doctor and the Google guy. I also liked the black woman on the farm, but I'm not sure if she will be a major character or not (could go either way).
The girl has a chance of growing on me.
Captain Neville was a decent villain, if a little cliched. But interestingly enough he's one of the few characters that was fleshed out quite a bit--we have a good backstory and motivations for him.
Bow boy and Danny are male teen hero cliches and hideously badly written ones at that. They need the most work by far.
I liked the pilot. It's a fun post-apoc premise and there's some interesting ideas presented. The major flaw character wise is the son--basically the whole storyline is started is because one boy decided to risk the lives of his entire family and village because he felt stubborn and invincible. I kind of hope he dies, and I imagine the show wants me to think he's an amazing hero.
A - what, 18- or 19-year-old kid - acts foolishly and believes that he's invincible? Not exactly hard to believe for me.
How you can suppress electronic devices worldwide, and even the operation of batteries (presumably that's why internal combustion engines don't work) and not affect peoples' nervous systems - that may be a bit much to believe - or rather, suspend disbelief in.
A - what, 18- or 19-year-old kid - acts foolishly and believes that he's invincible? Not exactly hard to believe for me.I liked the pilot. It's a fun post-apoc premise and there's some interesting ideas presented. The major flaw character wise is the son--basically the whole storyline is started is because one boy decided to risk the lives of his entire family and village because he felt stubborn and invincible. I kind of hope he dies, and I imagine the show wants me to think he's an amazing hero.
Never said it was unbelievable. I just don't like him, and I don't like that the show seems to want me to see him as a hero when he's an idiot who is responsible for the death of his father.
Never said it was unbelievable. I just don't like him, and I don't like that the show seems to want me to see him as a hero when he's an idiot who is responsible for the death of his father.A - what, 18- or 19-year-old kid - acts foolishly and believes that he's invincible? Not exactly hard to believe for me.I liked the pilot. It's a fun post-apoc premise and there's some interesting ideas presented. The major flaw character wise is the son--basically the whole storyline is started is because one boy decided to risk the lives of his entire family and village because he felt stubborn and invincible. I kind of hope he dies, and I imagine the show wants me to think he's an amazing hero.
Actually, I'm not entirely convinced on that. I think it may be more due to bad editing/directing/what have you, but I'm pretty sure I heard the kill order go down from the goon squad side first, and them even firing first, and yet for the rest of the episode, they acted as if the villagers fired first. I'll have to go back and watch.
Ok I watched the show... lame.
This is supposed to be a what if show... or so it seems.
But they got everything wrong. For one you think the show would hire a scientist or three to fact check against. As far as I know Diesel engine would still run just fine without electricity (as long as you don't turn them off) as the only thing they need juice for is to start the engine. They fire off heat and compression and since most supply and military vehicles run on diesel the end of electrics wouldn't be as horrible as they claim initially. You could modify a diesel to run on chemical heat and a crank starter. The worst point would be the first winter in the north. So the south would have to put up with a massive amount of northern refugees till homes can be converted back to non-electric heating systems. It may take a year or more to retool everything for diesel or steam power and add fireplaces to homes that don't have them. But what nut would think big business or the government would simply go away? Was there a government in the 1800s? Of course there was, and the tech scene would be decidedly better after the humanitarian crisis resolved itself within a few years. really you have a world full of scientists who would suddenly find themselves at the forefront of learning what happened and how to fix it right from day one... so after 15 years it should have all been figured out. And these few people who knew what was coming why didn't they step up to help out? And why is everyone using ball and cap rifles or bows? Did they forget suddenly how to care for the billions to trillions of modern guns everywhere? Clearly gun powder still works so WTF? And how is computer girl actually sending messages anyway. Yeah I get that the amulet makes electric stuff work because of a computer program on a flash drive??? But I don't remember seeing a massive broadcast antenna on her house. And all wired com lines would be dead.
~sigh~
Ok ignoring the impossibilities the show expects us to accept and looking at the characters. I am puzzled at how the bad guy (only a Sergent) took over the Chicago area. But hopefully that gets explained later. Everyone seems to be in character even if some of the characters are over the top and unbelievable, like the super soldier uncle who must be bred from the same stock as Rambo in the later movies. And what the hell is going on in lover boy's head? He is trying to get his love at first sight sent to a horrible fate... no he is rescuing her... no he is leaving her again to go rejoin the bad guys... huh?
Actually, I'm not entirely convinced on that. I think it may be more due to bad editing/directing/what have you, but I'm pretty sure I heard the kill order go down from the goon squad side first, and them even firing first, and yet for the rest of the episode, they acted as if the villagers fired first. I'll have to go back and watch.Never said it was unbelievable. I just don't like him, and I don't like that the show seems to want me to see him as a hero when he's an idiot who is responsible for the death of his father.A - what, 18- or 19-year-old kid - acts foolishly and believes that he's invincible? Not exactly hard to believe for me.I liked the pilot. It's a fun post-apoc premise and there's some interesting ideas presented. The major flaw character wise is the son--basically the whole storyline is started is because one boy decided to risk the lives of his entire family and village because he felt stubborn and invincible. I kind of hope he dies, and I imagine the show wants me to think he's an amazing hero.
I just rewatched that scene. Ben is ready to go over to the militia and end things peacefully when Danny shows up with a cocked and loaded crossbow pointed at the Sergeant. One of the militia raises a rifle or shotgun and points it at Danny as Danny is ordered to lower his weapon. Danny retorts, "you lower yours," and then another villager aims a gun at the militia. Heated arguments start flying and then, most definitely, Danny shoots first. The guard who had the gun trained on Danny fires on him immediately after Danny shoots, but I am absolutely certain he both started it and fired first. I don't remember hearing any kill order before he fired. It is a chaotic scene however so even on rewatching maybe I missed something, but that's what I saw.
Never said it was unbelievable. I just don't like him, and I don't like that the show seems to want me to see him as a hero when he's an idiot who is responsible for the death of his father.A - what, 18- or 19-year-old kid - acts foolishly and believes that he's invincible? Not exactly hard to believe for me.I liked the pilot. It's a fun post-apoc premise and there's some interesting ideas presented. The major flaw character wise is the son--basically the whole storyline is started is because one boy decided to risk the lives of his entire family and village because he felt stubborn and invincible. I kind of hope he dies, and I imagine the show wants me to think he's an amazing hero.
DeathQuaker, let me put it another way. I don't hate a kid that age for being a fool in a situation like that. I don't think that he's heroic, but neither do I hate him - although I agree that the bloodshed was his fault.
In any case, it seems to me that his sister is being set up as the series' hero(ine), not the brother.
In terms of enjoying fiction, I tend to not enjoy teen boy archetypes/tropes, and he seems a very cliched one at that. Just my personal preference. I'm judging him as a character, not as if he were a real human being (which would be different). (Likewise I have nothing against actual teen boys. :) )
I think Charlie is being set up as a primary protagonist, but I am not sure if his and her story are meant to parallel or they have something different in mind. There seems a great emphasis on him though for him not to have narrative significance -- and there can be more than one protag.
I didn't even make it through the pilot. I love a lot of TV these days but something about this reminds me of why I didn't watch TV for a decade.
I'm discovering a lot of the characters are obnoxious (and so is a bit of the story-telling).
Not a good sign.
I like all the characters except the two main characters. For action television, this is not unusual.
It's bad when, as a Quaker, I am rooting for the convenient kill guy and booing the girl who wants to preserve human life. I think I've played too much Fallout. ;)
I like all the characters except the two main characters. For action television, this is not unusual.
It's bad when, as a Quaker, I am rooting for the convenient kill guy and booing the girl who wants to preserve human life. I think I've played too much Fallout. ;)
LOL!
I know what you mean. I can see Charlie's reluctance, though. She doesn't know as much about how ruthless their enemies can be. Neither of them comprehend the stakes of the game they're caught up in.
I've only got a couple things to say about this:
I stomached the first episode. I think set and costuming leave a lot to be desired. It's been 15 years and everyone's wearing brand new clothes, shaved yesterday, there's NO WEEDS, all the houses are brand new (hot/cold effect anyone?), evidently hardly any work is required to grow corn as high as a house, and the actors chosen are nobody-plain-faces. Typical prime time board-room-doomed-to-fail series by people who don't have a clue about life outside of the L.A. bubble that the producers obviously "live in."
..oh, and not enough Mad Max, and too much lame-assassin-from-Firefly (talk about an unmrmorable, no-personality general).
I gave it a D- and deprogrammed it.
jh
I kinda like it now, I changed my mind.
It seems to be coming together a little more, now.
I still cringe whenever Danny is on screen, but I'm 100% sold on Charlie.
I still cringe whenever Danny is on screen,
I clapped and cheered when Moseley beat the crap out of him with a sock filled with rocks. That's how the writers wanted us to react, right?
but I'm 100% sold on Charlie.
I'm not 100% sold on her yet but she's getting there. I think it's taken the writers some time to figure her out and get some consistency into her (that isn't whining).
Charlie held hostage tomorrow night--what's the shelf life on duct tape?
Charlie held hostage tomorrow night--what's the shelf life on duct tape?
I just Googled that. According to Yahoo Answers (take that with its requisite block of salt) 10 years "to a lifetime" depending on how well it is stored.
So 15 years is a stretch but not awful. Maybe they found a duct tape factory storage facility where it was kept in relatively ideal conditions (main thing is, like for storing most things, a "cool dry place").