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I'd like some opinion on the following houserule I've been developing to smooth out the pace of adventures and deal with some other issues. The brainstorm I had recently was rather than trying to "fix" the 15 minute adventuring day, why not embrace it? Let characters rest, but don't break the verisimilitude by fast-forwarding the timeframe each day.
Any feedback is welcome, but specifically feedback about the details of the system. Keep the following points in mind:
1) The first goal is to allow characters to continue adventuring without overpowering any single class or ability.
2) The second goal is to maintain the 3.X sensibility that the PCs should still have a requirement for magic to heal.
3) Finally, from the perspective of world-building, this rule should not allow for any strange cases of exploitation (eg. no escaping from a jail cell with 0th-level spells).
THE SHORT REST
A short rest is 10 minutes of uninterrupted light activity. When starting a short rest (or combined short rests), the character must specify from what they are recovering. The possible choices are: class features, spells, hit-points, or fatigue. A character may combine short rests (see below, or to recover multiple choices) but must wait at least 1 hour before taking another short rest, or extended 8 hour rest.
Class Feature Recovery
Any single class feature or feat with limited uses per day can be recovered with a 10-minute rest. The character must specify which feature is being recovered before resting. A character can recover multiple class features or feats by combining short rests.
Spell Recovery
A spellcaster can use a short rest to recover one spell (or spell slot for spontaneous casters). This spell must have a level equal to the number of combined short rests used. Eg. a 1st-level spell requires one short rest, or 10 minutes, to recover. A 3rd-level spell requires three combined short rests, or 30 minutes, to recover. The character must declare which spell or spell slot is being recovered before starting the rest.
Hit-Point Recovery
A character can use a short rest to recover lethal damage equal to their level + Con modifier. A DC 20 Heal check and one use of a healer's kit doubles this amount. This also restores non-lethal damage of an equal amount. Multiple combined short rests do not stack.
Fatigue/Fear
A short rest allows a character to recover from fatigue. A character cannot recover from exhaustion with a short rest.
EXTRAS
Any ideas for feats that could take advantage of this system? Another thing I am now thinking about is more powerful fighter feats that would require a short rest to recover.
I like it. Though I think the Class Feature Recovery is too vague. A single class feature can bee too many different things.
I think one thing you could do would be to split off pool features from that to make their own rules (by pool features i mean things like ki-pools of monks and ninjas or the magus's arcana pool) for them. Because the entirety of such a pool allows for a lot of mean tricks per day.
It's definitely an interesting idea.
Class features would seem to need variable time to recover as well, probably based on their level. I'd say 1 point of ki pool or arcane pool or similar per rest, and for other features, something based on when they can be acquired. After all, recovering a use of a 1st-level class feature is generally less valuable than recovering a use of a 17th level class feature. I'd probably use a "class level at which feature is gained" metric to map that to spell levels.
I'm not sure I'd use it... I actually tend to prefer the full adventuring day in general, at least while the effective balance between casters and non-casters is predicated on there being enough encounters that the casters need to husband their slots. (Not that I think it quite works out as-is, but still.) Ideally I'd have a system where number of encounters per day is not relevant at all to keeping character types roughly balanced, but that's not what we have now.
But I like it conceptually. Still, at high level, I suspect it's going to break down... the casters, at least, are going to want a full night's rest (which I presume works as normal), because it will take less time than recovering an array of high level slots. In a 3-4 round combat, a sorcerer making heavy use of quicken spell may easily end up with more than 8 hours of recovery time (48 spell levels is not much when you're tossing around 7th-9th level spells and some quickened spells that are 5th or above as well).
Edit:
An associated point that just occurred to me:
How does this work for prepared casters? Are they recovering an expended spell (like using a pearl of power), or recovering the slot, into which they can prepare a new spell? If the latter, then they need to spend extra time on prep (and the cleric, per RAW, can only prepare spells at a specific time of day). In the former case, it seems substantially better for the spontaneous caster than the prepared, due to the flexibility.
I like it. Actually I think you could make it more powerful. Say a 10 minute rest per spell level for every spell at that level... so a 30 minute rest would recover all your 3rd level spells, ect.
It fits with fantasy lore... where the heroes hold up for a short rest with dialog about what they are experiencing or about to experience. The warior pulls a water skin and takes a few gulps, the priest retreats to a corner and meditates or prays, the wizard quickly flips through his spell book...
I like it. I always liked the idea of a finite amount of recourses per fight instead of per day. I didnt like the implementation in 4th edition. This kinda has a happy middle ground.
I might try this if I start a new campain. Good work.
I like it. Actually I think you could make it more powerful. Say a 10 minute rest per spell level for every spell at that level... so a 30 minute rest would recover all your 3rd level spells, ect.
It fits with fantasy lore... where the heroes hold up for a short rest with dialog about what they are experiencing or about to experience. The warior pulls a water skin and takes a few gulps, the priest retreats to a corner and meditates or prays, the wizard quickly flips through his spell book...
I like it. I always liked the idea of a finite amount of recourses per fight instead of per day. I didnt like the implementation in 4th edition. This kinda has a happy middle ground.
I might try this if I start a new campain. Good work.
If you allow a casterto recover his whole allotment of a single level like that it would encourage them to spam one level indiscriminately at every encounter. Spellcasters need to have some incentive to save up their spells, as they are inherently more powerful than what non-casters can do.
The idea is interesting, the implementation leaves some potential for abuse.
This is why 4e went to the "at-will, encounter and daily" power mechanic.
Personally this is only really an issue for spellcasters, and to me the "fix" to this problem is to abandon Vancian casting. Everything else is a band-aid.
If you allow a casterto recover his whole allotment of a single level like that it would encourage them to spam one level indiscriminately at every encounter. Spellcasters need to have some incentive to save up their spells, as they are inherently more powerful than what non-casters can do.I like it. Actually I think you could make it more powerful. Say a 10 minute rest per spell level for every spell at that level... so a 30 minute rest would recover all your 3rd level spells, ect.
It fits with fantasy lore... where the heroes hold up for a short rest with dialog about what they are experiencing or about to experience. The warior pulls a water skin and takes a few gulps, the priest retreats to a corner and meditates or prays, the wizard quickly flips through his spell book...
I like it. I always liked the idea of a finite amount of recourses per fight instead of per day. I didnt like the implementation in 4th edition. This kinda has a happy middle ground.
I might try this if I start a new campain. Good work.
Well then I would use a school of magic... or use a spell point system for all the casters. That way they could recover Caster level + Caster stat bonus in spell points per 10 minute rest or something to that effect. I mean the 15 minute work day is really only there because of casters and one spell level per 10 minute rest isnt going to help very much.
I like the concept though. It never makes since to me when a party LEAVES a dungeon and comes back the next day... really? I have never read a book or watched a movie where the hero takes on the villians hideout, takes a few wounds, and then leaves to finish the next day.
I would much rather give my players the ability to trudge through the entire dungeon without having to stop for an entire day.
The last game I played in... we where going through the Carrion Crown...
NOt only did we have 3 party deaths... but we left and came back 5 times to that place... 5 days! ONe of which we only spent... I kid you not... all of maybe 40 minutes in. I know this cause thats about how long it took our cleric to run out of channels and I still had my 1 hour buff up.
Its just silly really.
How about limiting spell levels that can be recovered in their entirety to one third of the maximum level that the spellcaster can cast? Doing this would limit the recoverable spell levels to ones that are well below the caster's "best" spells while providing some scaling up of spells that can be used frequently. Done with a cleric or wizard, this would enable the caster to regain all 1st level spells with a 10 minute rest at 5th level, all 2nd level spells with a 20 minute rest at 11th level, and all 3rd level spells with a 30 minute rest at 17th level.
One thing to consider is recovery of healing powers in this way. If the party includes a cleric, a logical thing to do under your proposal would be for the cleric to use up his channeling ability to heal up the party and then recharge that ability with a 10 minute rest. Since you have not introduced anything like 4E's healing surges to this approach, your player characters may have virtually unlimited stamina if given even one ten minute rest after each battle. That may or may not be what you desire.
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Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!
@Threeshades: I'll be honest, I originally conceived of the idea for 3.5, so I knew it would be missing some key PF sections (like "point-based"). I'm thinking that similar to hp, a character can recover only certain number of points in a single rest. Maybe, similar to what Phelan suggested, 1 + Cha as a general rule? Or should it be linked to the classes key stat?
@Phelan: As I conceived it, the rest would recover the spell slot along with the spell that had been prepared that morning. But it might be nice to allow the wizard to change the spell during the rest, probably adding the normal 10-minute time to the rest time.
@LazarX: I agree that in Pathfinder casters have too many resources as is, so a slight reduction probably wouldn't hurt. But I wanted this system to stand alone for anyone to use.
@Dragonamedrake: I agree, the whole "in-and-out" routine really started to bother me lately. I admit, it would be easier to use spell points with the system (with the added benefit of standardizing the recovery amount) but I have a fondness for Vancian magic. I also liked the concept of a brief rest in 4e, but the solution was overshadowed by the overhaul to (almost) every resource system in the game. I was actually inspired by playing the new Gamma World, and how it kept the game moving (not without problems, though). :)
@David: I rather like that idea, as it gives the caster a choice (I like making hard choices): "Do I spend 30 minutes to get back my fireball or 10 minutes to get back all my magic missiles?" The level threshold feels about right. 4 magic missiles would be a hard choice against 1 fireball, or does it?
I think in regards to the cleric channel energy, it needs some tinkering (the original system used Turn Undead, which was easier to balance). I hate having to change the actual rules for the classes, but I'm not entirely enamored with channel energy anyway.
I know from experience that when a cleric starts using channel, its usually used more than once in a single battle. What about changing channel energy so that once activated (standard action) the cleric may actually channel energy once per round (standard) up to the RAW number of uses. That would seem to allow the desperate group healing in combat, but also give the cleric a reason to rest.
That may still be too powerful. Another option would be to make the class feature recovery only recover one use per 10 minutes. I actually prefer this option, as its the easiest to implement and allows for other x/day features to still be used multiple times in one combat if needed.
Thanks for the feedback, keep it coming!
@Threeshades: I'll be honest, I originally conceived of the idea for 3.5, so I knew it would be missing some key PF sections (like "point-based"). I'm thinking that similar to hp, a character can recover only certain number of points in a single rest. Maybe, similar to what Phelan suggested, 1 + Cha as a general rule? Or should it be linked to the classes key stat?
I'd almost say only rover the key stat bonus in points. I can't speak for monks and ninjas as I havent played them, but for the magus that's already a lot. For example the hastened assault arcana would effectively let the magus recover His Int Mod² in rounds in which he can fight under the effect of a haste spell. That's already a lot, considering he could regain those points every hour.
I would actually say make it a flat amount of pool points independent of any ability, like 2 points and be done with it. Spells are also not regained based on any ability score after all.
I think in regards to the cleric channel energy, it needs some tinkering (the original system used Turn Undead, which was easier to balance). I hate having to change the actual rules for the classes, but I'm not entirely enamored with channel energy anyway.
I know from experience that when a cleric starts using channel, its usually used more than once in a single battle. What about changing channel energy so that once activated (standard action) the cleric may actually channel energy once per round (standard) up to the RAW number of uses. That would seem to allow the desperate group healing in combat, but also give the cleric a reason to rest.
That may still be too powerful. Another option would be to make the class feature recovery only recover one use per 10 minutes. I actually prefer this option, as its the easiest to implement and allows for other x/day features to still be used multiple times in one combat if needed.
Well for instance in my example of Carrion Crown, the cleric wasnt using it mainly to heal. He used it to hurt undead that the rest of the group couldnt see or hurt. It was very frustrating when he would run out and we had to leave because it was literally our only offence against most of the dungeon. We now have 3 characters that can channel in our group because of it.
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I would actually say make it a flat amount of pool points independent of any ability, like 2 points and be done with it. Spells are also not regained based on any ability score after all.
Good point. I've never had a player run a Brb or Mnk since the Beta, does 2 point feel like a useful amount, or would the magic number of 3 be appropriate?
@Dragonamedrake: My next campaign may be Carrion Crown with an all-cleric party (holy crusade time!). Off-topic, is your party finding the adventure TOO easy with multiple channelers? Or just about right?
I would actually say make it a flat amount of pool points independent of any ability, like 2 points and be done with it. Spells are also not regained based on any ability score after all.Good point. I've never had a player run a Brb or Mnk since the Beta, does 2 point feel like a useful amount, or would the magic number of 3 be appropriate?
@Dragonamedrake: My next campaign may be Carrion Crown with an all-cleric party (holy crusade time!). Off-topic, is your party finding the adventure TOO easy with multiple channelers? Or just about right?
Barbarians are a whole different story, rage progresses with level, unlike pool abilities. But ofr pool abilities i'd say 2 points are just fine. It extends to two useful extras.