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Are there any Archtypes for the Hell knight Armiger? Also can paladins be hell knights? It seems that while they are just extremest of the law that the fact that there are evil persons abundant in the faction that they would not be able to become hell knights...Just wondering. Limited experience with Paladins.
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The hole Chelaxian govt/ Diabolism doesn't mess with their code? They work for the Chelaxian govt right?
The creative director of golarion, the guy who figures that sort of stuff out, said paladins can be hellknights :)
Now there's a story I'd like to read. ("It's two Cecils in one!")
And no, there are no archetypes yet. Probably when Knights of the Inner Sea comes out though.
(Seaborn is Bandon)
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While Hellknights are seen by outsiders as the enforcement arm of Cheliax, the Orders predate the Great Contract and the rise of House Thrune. They stand for law itself, and work against the misuse of authority and hypocrisy as well as against lawlessness.
Indeed, if those among the inner circle of Thrune are as corrupt as rumors suggest, it will be the Order of the Scourge which strikes the first blow against them.
Since they're from the Inner Sea World Guide, I assume that's a good place to start.
Granted, that's meant to be a GM book. Hrm.
They're given a number of pages in the Council of Thieves AP...I want to say books 2 and 3, but it might be books 3 and 4 of the AP. The write ups should list which ones have the Hellknights write ups. It also has the original 15 level PRC for Hellknights, that I still kind of prefer to the new 10 level one.
Also the Faction Guide has their list of rewards, etc.
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PRC is prestige class right? I have been playing the d20 system since D&D 3.0 and have never used one. Are they really beneficial? I have always concluded that I liked the standard abilities better than what I would get if I took the prestige class.I guess they have just seemed to lack enough punch to make the hassle worth it. I also have admittedly not multi-classed since AD&D lol
I think that there is some information on them in the guidebook to Chelaxia.
PRC is prestige class, sorry.
Whether they're beneficial or worth it or not, is total in the eye of the beholder. Some of them can be used to build a character with a slightly different flavor than the standard class. Personally, I've only made one character with a PRC as of yet. The Pathfinder Delver from the Seeker of Secrets book worked well with my concept a la Indiana Jones style adventuring.
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Are there any Archtypes for the Hell knight Armiger?
Not as of yet. Patience, though. Patience.
Also can paladins be hell knights? It seems that while they are just extremest of the law that the fact that there are evil persons abundant in the faction that they would not be able to become hell knights...
As stated up thread, yes. But the life of a paladin is not an easy one, and being a Hellknight will not make it easier. It can be done, but only by the most exceptional individuals. Additionally, all Hellknight orders are not equally friendly to paladins. For example, the Order of the Gate would not be a good choice. The order of the Pyre, the Scar, the Pike, and - especially - the Order of the Torrent (see PF# 27, p 66) could all be good choices, though.
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The hole Chelaxian govt/ Diabolism doesn't mess with their code? They work for the Chelaxian govt right?
No. They are from Cheliax, but they adhere to their own code, that of the Measure and the Chain. The complete history of the Hellknights and more insight into they philosophies appears in PF #28, "Path of the Hellknight."
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I just made a Paladin archetype: Undead Scourge, which I want to turn into a Hellknight [for more mess, he's Silver Crusade faction] of the Order of the Pike. I know the Pikes are a lesser order, but they seem to be okay for Hellknights who lean over to the good side. I mean, the just kill monsters after all.
My problem is that even if the Pikes are a legit Hellknight order, they don't have specific disciplines.
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I am waiting patiently to play my aspiring hell knight that I was working on when I created this thread. As of yet I have still seen no new material related specifically to the Hell Knights. Would anyone care to discuss A. The application of the Squire feats, Taldan Conscript, Taldan Squire, and Taldan Knight feats in regards to them being for Taldans not Chelaxians. Or B. Philosophies of Hell Knights and their various orders. Or C. Anything peoples little hearts desire, but preferably to help others further their knowledge of Hell Knights!
As has been said, the most information as of yet can be found in APs #27 and #28.
Can't comment on A, since I do not own that book.
What I find quite exiting about this combination is the roleplaying aspect:
While IMO Paladins focus more on the aspect of good in their alignment, the Hellknight focusses more on the lawful aspect. This creates quite some tension.
Also, I'd add the Order of the God's Claw to be suitable for a pally/Hk combination.
Ruyan.
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That is a good point. I hadn't made that comparison though I should have. I find their focus on law to be a very interesting aspect of them. Off the top of my head I can't think of any other type of character that acts or behaves like them.
@RuyanVe you can take a look at those feats here.
I was wondering if they would be appropriate for Hell Knights if they were allowed to be applied via house rule etc.
Ok, had a look at the three feats.
My impression is that Taldan Squire and Taldan Knight are ok - I assume the bonus to initiative stacks (dodge bonus to armor does in any case) - which could amount to +4 to initative and +2 dodge bonus to AC, but I wouldn't invest in them.
Rather than gaining a cohort with an NPC class, I'd take the standard Leadership feat and gain a cohort with PC levels or a monstrous mount instead.
Also, not all campaigns are suited to play a mounted character. Large portions and often the deciding fights against one's enemies take place indoors. Even if the campaign is suitable for a mounted character, most often YOU will be the (one) character of your group fighting from horse back, so the prereq for Taldan Squire will not be fulfilled.
What I've done a couple months back was to create a Pally/HK for a homebrew (using only CRB and APG) using 25 pt. buy.
Progression was: Paladin 6, than Hellknight 6 (later up to 10 than back into Paladin)
With a Pally6/HK6 I ended up with:
Stats
Feats
Goodies
I admit that will look rather sub-optimal to most here on these boards, but would have worked for me and my group.
As you can see this char is barely fully evolved and I'm still missing Dazzling Display - I wouldn't know how to make room for the feats you mentioned.
Ruyan.
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I am waiting patiently to play my aspiring hell knight that I was working on when I created this thread. As of yet I have still seen no new material related specifically to the Hell Knights.
It's unofficial, but you could check the 'Riders on the Storm' article in Wayfinder 7, for a more mounted-focussed variant PrC.
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Idk that I am looking to make him a mounted warrior. I think that Jade Regent or Kingmaker would be the only time he would be of much use. I would love to see peoples ideas for builds, philosophies, play styles, tactics etc. I only mentioned those feats specifically because I wondered if the would fit the organization with some rules fudging and fluff changes.
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Im aware this is an old post but hopefully someone can help. Is there any reason I wouldn't be allowed to be a member of the scar? It didnt look to be one of the 8 available that I saw. Im currently using my intimidate as a day job allowing with a caravan. Being a nomadic Hellknight for hire Would feel very appropriate for my character.
http://pathfinder.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Hellknight_orders
I find the idea of Hellknight paladins and paladins of Adabar to be ludicrous. Baring changing what a paladin has meant to RPGs for the last couple of decades it makes no in setting sense, and I don't allow them.
Paladins of Abadar clearly is a long way from the 1e conception of Paladinhood as the perfect Christian knight a la Roland. I have issues with it myself; if Paladins have to be LG to get their powers then why are they serving a LN deity? It would probably be better simply to have LN & LE Paladins.
I find Hellknight Paladins much less egregious actually, the Hellknights are generally not diabolists, not in the pockets of House Thrune, and their code isn't necessarily antithetical to a Paladin code. If anything I find LE as a common Hellknight alignment for non-corrupt orders harder to understand. I don't really have a clear idea of what Paizo mean by the various Alignments, and I'm not sure they do either.
Edit: There's a Paladin of Abadar Hellknight Armiger ex-PC IMC (Crimson Throne); the Hellknights of the Nail smuggled her out of Korvosa to stop her being conscripted into the Gray Maidens.
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Paladins of Abadar clearly is a long way from the 1e conception of Paladinhood as the perfect Christian knight a la Roland. I have issues with it myself; if Paladins have to be LG to get their powers then why are they serving a LN deity? It would probably be better simply to have LN & LE Paladins.
Why not? They're still Good and still don't get to do Evil stuff. Working to encourage civilization and the rule of law isn't the only viable path for a Paladin, but it seems reasonable for a Paladin to do.
I find Hellknight Paladins much less egregious actually, the Hellknights are generally not diabolists, not in the pockets of House Thrune, and their code isn't necessarily antithetical to a Paladin code. If anything I find LE as a common Hellknight alignment for non-corrupt orders harder to understand. I don't really have a clear idea of what Paizo mean by the various Alignments, and I'm not sure they do either.
Canonically, LN is the most common, followed by LE, followed by LG. That sounds reasonable to me, given the harshness of Hellknights standard conception of the law.
Edit: There's a Paladin of Abadar Hellknight Armiger ex-PC IMC (Crimson Throne); the Hellknights of the Nail smuggled her out of Korvosa to stop her being conscripted into the Gray Maidens.
Cool. :)
You do know that Iomedae was from Cheliax and is pretty popular there, right? I can definitely imagine a Paladin of Iomedae becoming a Hellknight of the Godclaw and either protecting the peace in Cheliax or running off to stab demons in the face at the Worldwound. For all I know, there are followers of Ragathiel among the Hellknights that just aren't super vocal about the deity they worship, what with empyreal lords being either unknown or not understood so well as the core pantheon members.
Well, that just goes to show different people conceptualize things differently.
I have no problems with the concept of a Paladin of Abadar. I have more problems with Paladin Hellknights, since the Hellknight code is so stringently lawful and frequently seems merciless.
But I could certainly see Paladin Hellknights in certain Orders in certain circumstances. Order of the Pike and Order of the Godclaw stand out as possibilities.
There's actually a new paladin Oath in Inner Sea Combat specifically made for paladin hellknights, Oath against Chaos. It does a lot of what the hellknight prc does, switching smite evil to smite chaos and whatnot.
I have a paladin hellknight in pfs, and it's certainly doable and I like the concept. It's certainly not EASY though.
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You do know that Iomedae was from Cheliax and is pretty popular there, right? I can definitely imagine a Paladin of Iomedae becoming a Hellknight of the Godclaw and either protecting the peace in Cheliax or running off to stab demons in the face at the Worldwound. For all I know, there are followers of Ragathiel among the Hellknights that just aren't super vocal about the deity they worship, what with empyreal lords being either unknown or not understood so well as the core pantheon members.
Indeed. In fact the Godclaw got their start in the Mendevian Crusades. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe they were also the first Hellknight Order founded after the original ones to be recognized as a major order.
As for why paladins came up, whenever LN stuff is being discussed, it seems people will toss paladins around to see if they can be shoehorned in. And in the case of the Hellknights, they can. They exemplify the Chelaxian mode of thought that their will and discipline can bend the powers of Hell to their command. A Hellknight doesn't make a pact with a devil to earn his title. He slays one. And devil slaying is something most paladins can get behind.
There likely aren't many paladins in the Order of the Gate, however.
Hellknights area great class, but gee they could use a bit of a tidy-up and revision. Some of the material isn't as clear as it could be.