How would you go about statting out the fictional character, Rumpelstiltskin, as seen in the popular television series, Once Upon A Time? The man with all the magic, all the wit, all the vile charm, who has never broke a deal once struck (save one).
Mystic Theurge. Sorcerer/oracle. Oracle curse: Lizard skin.
Are you a fan of the show RD?
It would be easier to stat him out if the writers had been more consistent with his character... But we can give it a try.
First, he seems to have a spontaneous sort of magic which was bestowed upon him by an external source, "the dark one". That's pretty consistent with a demonic bloodline sorcerer.
But he seems to do lots of work with potions, extracts, elixirs and poisons, which could be consistent with an alchemist.
If there is a spontaneous casting alchemist archetype, that might fit.
His physical stats would seem pretty low, and while some people might object, I'd say his charisma is very high. Charisma does not equal "likability". I'd also suggest a high intelligence but a low wisdom.
Maybe a multiclass sorcerer/alchemist.
Are you a fan of the show RD?
More a fan of the character (and of evil witches and spellcasters in general) than of the show itself.
Here are some inspiring pics to help the discussion along:
Rumpelstiltskin's awesome eyes
Rumpelstiltskin's crazy moves
Rumpelstiltskin's endearing charm
Rumpelstiltskin's benevolent mercy
I wanted to suggest witch too, because I think the "feel" of the character is more witchy than anything else... but the mechanics of the witch don't really fit the way the character is portrayed. No familiar and no spell preparation.
If I were to stat him out for real, I might go with some sort of fey creature with spell-like abilities and a few alchemist levels. I don't think he really fits neatly into any of the PF class concepts.
A bard with the ability to baleful polymorph others and cast disintegrate?
Mystic Theurge. Sorcerer/oracle. Oracle curse: Lizard skin.
I like this answer personally. As far as the alchemy goes just do feats and skills for it.
Mystic Theurge. Sorcerer/oracle. Oracle curse: Lizard skin.I like this answer personally. As far as the alchemy goes just do feats and skills for it.
Wasting seems like a good fit. He was quite scary to most. What's more, a high Charisma and some skill-based feats can ensure he remains socially adept.
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I'd honestly be inclined to go Bard, just for the number of skills and the sheer Charisma when he puts his mind to something.
And he's mostly not a direct spellcaster. Especially not in combat. He has things for that. Items. Tricks he's picked up here and there. Go Magician to add a few other spells to his list (though only Baleful Polymorph has been demonstrated thus far).
I could also definitely see him as a Witch. He's certainly got a lot of that archetype going for him. Cackle is particularly apropos.
Whatever he is, to truly represent him he needs to be the highest level spellcaster anyone has ever met. Ever even seen, really. A large part of who and what he is, is based on being basically the most powerful and dangerous being around.
I'd honestly be inclined to go Bard, just for the number of skills and the sheer Charisma when he puts his mind to something.
That's certainly true.
And he's mostly not a direct spellcaster. Especially not in combat. He has things for that. Items. Tricks he's picked up here and there. Go Magician to add a few other spells to his list (though only Baleful Polymorph has been demonstrated thus far).
Didn't he also disintegrate the fairy god mother?
I could also definitely see him as a Witch. He's certainly got a lot of that archetype going for him. Cackle is particularly apropos.
Though his flavor is very witchy, I don't think it's a good fit mechanically.
Whatever he is, to truly represent him he needs to be the highest level spellcaster anyone has ever met. Ever even seen, really. A large part of who and what he is, is based on being basically the most powerful and dangerous being around.
Isn't there a fairy out there who is stronger, or at least as strong as he is?
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That's certainly true.
I've always thought so.
Didn't he also disintegrate the fairy god mother?
She blew up, but we never really saw how, could've easily been a Wand if he's a Magician (UMD+Using his Cha on Save DCs). Or, in more in-show parlance, the effect of a stored magic item of some kind. We do know he collects and manufactures such items, after all.
Though his flavor is very witchy, I don't think it's a good fit mechanically.
Why not? The spell list looks good, and a level of, say, the very appropriate Rogue gives him all necessary skills. The Familiar is, admittedly, a problem. But modifying it to an intelligent item familiar of sorts (the dagger) actualy works out pretty well.
It's not Cha based, but nothing stops you buying it up. Especially on an NPC.
Isn't there a fairy out there who is stronger, or at least as strong as he is?
He's repeatedly referred to as the most powerful or dangerous man in the world, and even the greatest powers of Good in the land only beat him through trickery. And I don't remember any reference to a fairy as powerful.
Dotting for further reading...
Also... Unfortunately without DM fiat there aren't any spells to utilize his 'contracts', which is what I was going for when I was trying to stat the badass mofo out. Thus I more or less put him on the shelf till I could figure something out... Considered some fancy wondrous item with Geas as part of it, but again, DM fiat there.
I love the character, and the actor who portrays him (love the actor in Stargate Universe, but never managed to see past the episode where he got stranded on another planet)....
I've always felt him more a combination of a Bard with the Sorc/Wiz spell list. Though he does have some witchy and wizardly feels about him here and there...
I'll definitely be following this thread, see if I can't get inspired to come up with something or other.
I'm thinking Witch, because the spell list is the best match. As for spell preparation....we never see him prepare spells. He has an as-yet-unwritten "collector" archetype; spending time with his collection is how he prepares.
Also, as he has shown, he will Baleful Polymorph a b#!+* if he feels like it. Or pound a f%!+er - BaB +4/+5 or so works fine against shaken low-level commoners.
I love the character, and the actor who portrays him (love the actor in Stargate Universe, but never managed to see past the episode where he got stranded on another planet)....
Yeah, great show, except way too much "The Whiny Shallow B#$%& And Lt. Stupid Hero Emo Hour". Every time Zoe was in danger, i was rooting for her to die, die DIE.
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Never saw Stargate Universe.
I actually quite like Once Upon A Time, and Rumpelstiltskin especially.
And I did also like the actor in the few other roles I've seen him in.
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And his contracts strike me as a triggered Bestow Curse more than anything. 'Anyone who breaks this suffers X'. Anyone know how to make that mechanically? There's gotta be a way...
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Hmm, true. When I was originally going for it I was basing it off Rumpel, but as time went on I decided to focus more on the contract aspect, and went a little more Faustian with it.
I can definitely see it as a triggered Bestow Curse item... The question is how does one go about altering reality to apply in accordance with the contract? Easiest guess would be Wish/Miracle, which automatically denotes the guy's at LEAST 18th level. Admittedly at the moment this is the part I'm most interested in.
I'd like to know what else the actor is in, as I'm hoping to watch some more of his stuff to know if he's as awesome as he appears to be. In the mean time, while my GF and I initially was a little 'meh' with Once Upon a Time, finding Grimm a better show... Once Rumpelstiltskin showed up, and as it went on, we both fell in love with the character and he has skyrocketed the show up to the top of our favorite list. We definitely plan on buying the series on DVD when it's released, mainly for that character.
This is an old thread but I felt like weighing in. Instead of Rumple I decided to make a Mr. Gold. My opinion on this is that you do 1st level Lore Oracle with the Lame Curse and have him use a cane to get around.
I made him Human with two Extra Revelation feats at 1st. This means at first he had Automatic Writing, Focused Trance, and Sidestep Secret. I will be multiclassing him with a dual blooded sorcerer with the Psionic Bloodline/Psychic Bloodline which are published by Paizo Fans Unlimited and Spes Magna Games, which are third party, so make sure you ask your GM if it's okay. PFS is of course out of the picture.
The spells you get in your bloodlines fit very well with Mr. Gold and especially with the psychic bloodline your powers like precognition would be good. I focused on skills like diplomacy for gathering information and knowledge skills. The bloodlines can be found here.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines -from-3rd-party-publishers/spes-magna-games---sorcerer-bloodline/psychic-bl oodline
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/sorcerer/bloodlines/bloodlines -from-3rd-party-publishers/paizo-fans-united-wayfinder-magazine/psionic-blo odline
I put as high of charisma as I could spare as well as intelligence with a minor in constitution. I didn't focus too much on dex or str as I didn't see him as much of a combatant. He more will be able to help them discern the weaknesses of creatures and cast spells from the back. I was considering eventually sending him in for mystic theurge.
Also to ensure people take his deals he must have the knowledge that they need it as well the reputation for being able to get the job done. At higher levels he will have lesser geas/quest as well as it's higher leveled brother; but i would consider you make a spell from scratch called Contract.
Contract
School enchantment (compulsion) [curse, language-dependent, mind-affecting]; Level bard 2, inquisitor 3, sorcerer/wizard 3, witch 3
CASTING
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V
EFFECT
Range Touch
Target one living creature with 7 HD or less
Duration Until discharged (D)
Saving Throw None; Spell Resistance None
DESCRIPTION
Upon casting this spell, the target must agree to the reported contract. They must do so by their own freedom of mind and cannot be under any compulsion effects or it won't work. By doing so they bound themselves along with the caster of the spell into bondage of magic. There are three types of contract the caster can place into effect, and both parties must know the stipulations, however not the means by which it comes to pass.
Short Term: The two agree on a shortened period of time for when the contract must be fulfilled. If the intended party fails it's task by the intended date/time then the contract is failed.
Long Term: The two agree on a long period of time at which the details of the contract can be fulfilled. All times and dates may be brought into effect within 1 year or the contract is null and void. If the parties involved meet and call in to play the prearranged contract, then the parties are under the effects of a short term contract at that date.
Open Ended: The two parties agree that in whatever case (Usually a favor of a certain type) a person must fulfill the contract when the two of them meet. The one calling the contract into play triggers it's effects and the one who must fulfill the contract (or both dependent on the deal) are now under a short term effect.
Those who break contracts suffer great penalties. By imparting their will into the contract they when breaking a contract are damaged in this regard. All creatures who are in the contract and fail to secure their end of the contract in some way shape or form are subject to take damage, penalties, and negative societal marks. For short term contracts, the subject who fails to succeed in their end takes a -2 to all charisma based ability checks and skill checks for 1 day. They take 1d6+1 point of damage/caster level, and take a -3 to attacks, damage, and saving throws for the significance of their magical word being broken. The -3 penalties last for 1day/caster level. On top of this, the caster knows instantly that the deal has not been fulfilled and can know the precise location of the creature at all times for up to 1 year/level, this however doesn't work in reverse should the caster not fulfill his end of the bargain. He however will take all indicated damage and penalties.
Those who break a contract on them by any means that would negate a curse, take 1d6 points of damage +1 / caster level and it is known by the caster. However he does not have the ability to know the location of the creature.
What about an Infernal Bloodline Sorcerer/Dual Cursed Oracle/Mystic Theurge? Infernal seems more in line with the deal-making and lawful aspects of his character, and you go dual cursed to make Wasting the curse that doesn't progress, and Legalistic to show his inability to step away from the chance to make a contract.
Rumpelstiltskin would work quite well as a unique phistophilus with a few levels in bard.
There is a spontaneous witch archetype that drops the familiar in Occult Adventures called the Ley Line Guardian (or was it Unchained?). There is also a spell called Spellcasting Contract i believe (its an Asmodean spell, and its the component spell in the aforementioned Pact Parchment i believe)
Alternatively, the new Hoaxer bard archetype might be appropriate
Hrm. Well, as much as I dislike participating in necromancy at times... This 'uns a fun challenge. So, as a fan of RavingDork and a fan of the show, I must rise to the challenge!
Definitely gotta go Mythic tiers, that much is clear. Race-wise gets tricky, as he may have to be something custom-built due to the nature of being the Dark One. Class-wise, while witch could fit, I believe Rumple is best served and represented by being a Lore Shaman. After all, he's the man with all the answers in the series, and it represents his brand of magic quite well. Hell, spirits even let him switch up his abilities from day to day, representing the vast amount of magical knowledge that he has to begin with. Perhaps a re-flavored True Silvered Throne Archetype to represent the dagger and not give him a pesky spirit animal. All that doesn't cover is the curse aspect of being the Dark One, which would require just a tad bit of homebrew.
Hrm. Well, as much as I dislike participating in necromancy at times... This 'uns a fun challenge. So, as a fan of RavingDork and a fan of the show, I must rise to the challenge!
Definitely gotta go Mythic tiers, that much is clear. Race-wise gets tricky, as he may have to be something custom-built due to the nature of being the Dark One. Class-wise, while witch could fit, I believe Rumple is best served and represented by being a Lore Shaman. After all, he's the man with all the answers in the series, and it represents his brand of magic quite well. Hell, spirits even let him switch up his abilities from day to day, representing the vast amount of magical knowledge that he has to begin with. Perhaps a re-flavored True Silvered Throne Archetype to represent the dagger and not give him a pesky spirit animal. All that doesn't cover is the curse aspect of being the Dark One, which would require just a tad bit of homebrew.
it wouldn't even need homebrew, just take VMC Oracle for a curse and get a few fancy oracle revelations that are outside the reach of the Shaman (Though honestly, i think a Spirit Guide oracle might be more appropriate, since he always seemed more like a spontaneous caster with crafting feats to me)
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Something worth mentioning, very rarely do tv characters prepare spells. However, it isn't necessarily worth losing spell power for.
You don't get to see 100% of their time and preparing spells....You mean checking books and such?
But it is evident that Rumple is a heavy reader and has a massive Library in his castle and in his secret stash. (one time emma is transported in there and it is full of artifacts he does and doesn't understand.)
I honestly think he is a Arcanist. He prepares them when he can...and relies on casting like a sorcerer. I would say he does have both Brew potion and scribe scroll (he created the dark curse that started it all...and it was written on a mini scroll)
An arcanist needs a High Int (which we know he has) and a moderate cha(12-14 with a circlet of persuasion). His wisdom...well he keeps repeating the same mistakes of choosing power over the ones who love him. Which brings on his own suffering....which makes him think...if only I was more powerful....one big circle.
As for the Golden skin and Eyes.....Raistlin (from dragonlance) had similar affliction. You could just say your skin is golden and your eyes are of similar shade.
But it is evident that Rumple is a heavy reader and has a massive Library in his castle and in his secret stash. (one time emma is transported in there and it is full of artifacts he does and doesn't understand.)
Minor quibble here, as far as i understood it the reason he HAD that library was to make Belle happy, i dont remember ever seeing him use it (he used books in the real world, but not in the story world except for the scroll), i would peg his bookworld state as an Spirit Guide Oracle who uses Lore to repick his spells each day, the earthworld version of him is much closer to an arcanist yes
Edit: Also, he struck me as rather charismatic compared to what yoyu pegged him at, maybe a bit higher?
Arcanists don't get healing spells. That's why I like witch our shaman.
White mage archetype
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But it is evident that Rumple is a heavy reader and has a massive Library in his castle and in his secret stash. (one time emma is transported in there and it is full of artifacts he does and doesn't understand.)Minor quibble here, as far as i understood it the reason he HAD that library was to make Belle happy, i dont remember ever seeing him use it (he used books in the real world, but not in the story world except for the scroll), i would peg his bookworld state as an Spirit Guide Oracle who uses Lore to repick his spells each day, the earthworld version of him is much closer to an arcanist yes
Edit: Also, he struck me as rather charismatic compared to what yoyu pegged him at, maybe a bit higher?
What about in the fantasy world where he was teaching the Evil queen to use her powers....With a spellbook and hands on training. I would not think an Oracle/sorcerer could teach a Wizard how to be a wizard.
As for the Charisma...You would think so but I don't think he needs much convincing power beyond a Circlet of Persuasion and a 14 cha. He usually had people seek him out in their desperation and Rumple Plays on that desperation. In game terms I would assume this type of "Diplomacy" Check would be easier to pass. Not to mention the Circlet+14 makes a +5 to all those CHA checks. You could also argue that he might be a Student of Philosophy and just uses INT.
Arcanists don't get healing spells. That's why I like witch our shaman.
Infernal healing >.> seems to be a "Healing" spell. Or you could go with Use Magic Device as well.
He needs wish.
I've only seen the first 2 seasons, and scattered episodes.
If I were to stat out Rumple/Mr Gold, I would make him a low level Commoner/Warrior or something, with the bulk of his powers coming from the CURSED MAJOR INTELLIGENT ARTIFACT Dark One Blade.
By MAJOR, I mean carve your initials into the head of Mjölnir, then slice up a bunch of Harrow Decks of Many Things like they were paper cards, MAJOR!
The Dark One Blade could grant him a host of SLAs, enhancements, offensive, and defensive abilities. Have it feed off the eventual evil he causes.
The classic Rumpelstiltskin contracts could be the result of the Blade having a dual heritage. It has to have some Fey connection, something like an amalagam of the Blade of the First World and the Dagger of Hell. Similar to KotDT's Tempest/Carvin' Marvin or Star Trek's Nomad.
I did not see the episode, but did they not meld Excalibur in also?
His other abilities can be covered by Craft-Alchemy, Spellcraft, and Use Magic Device. Give him Expert levels to fill him up to 20th. He should also have access to a huge collection of magic items.
Didn't the previous Dark One thank Rumpelstiltskin for killing/freeing him?