I don't know about y'all, but I have mixed feelings about TT parades. On the one hand, surviving soldiers deserve recognition. But on the other hand, TT parades send young folks the unspoken message that "War is patriotic and noble, and if you survive you get to make out with a hottie during a big parade in your honor!" I think that wars are all too often fought for no good reason, so I'm not crazy about the idea of encouraging the next generation of potential recruits.
Your thoughts?
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Its ANZAC (Australian & New Zealand Army Corps) day soon in Australia - There are Dawn Services, our Veterans march it draws huge crowds.....
ANZAC Day initially commemorated the defeat at Gallipoli, very soon it came to commemorate those who served and those that did not comeback from Palestine, the western front and at sea...
Then roughly 21 years later the Western Desert, Greece,and Air War against the Nazi's, The Pacific campaigns as well as those sailors that served in the Atlantic, Mediterranean, Indian and Pacific.
More recently there are the veterans from Korea, Malaya, Vietnam, Dessert Storm 1.0, Afghanistan, Dessert Storm 2.0.... Not to forget the peace keepers we have lost.
We say thank you to these people for the sacrifices they made even if we disagree with the politics of the wars they are fighting...
Do I think that they encourage recruitment..... No otherwise we would not be opening up permission for non Commonwealth soldiers to serve in the Australian Army.
Do they aggrandise war no they are there to thank people for their service and to remember those that did not come home.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.
Lest we forget
I get voluntold for them.
Is that a typo, or do you mean that others volunteer you for parades?
Do they aggrandise war no they are there to thank people for their service and to remember those that did not come home.
No argument that the purpose of TT parades and veteran holidays are to give thanks to the soldiers. But do you really think that wars don't get aggrandized as a result of these events, even if unintentionally? If so, you Aussies and Kiwis must be way more enlightened than we are in the States.
ANZAC day is different in that its origins are in defeat. Australians & New Zealanders (as well as Indians, French and British soldiers) were slaughtered en mass as the campaign was badly conceived and badly managed.
Why it is special is that it is the first time (Open to debate) Australians & New Zealanders fought as citizens of those countries rather than colonial troops of the British Empire.
ANZAC Day is about "mud & blood & tears" and young men not comming home.
There is some jingoism and the myth of the ANZAC has been misused or exploited by politicians at times. But there is a truth in that day that can not be escaped by even the most fervent militarist - If you go to war, people will die and those at home will suffer that loss.
ANZAC day marches are certainly draw cards and get a lot of well wishing coming from the community, but they are not 'ticker tape' parades per se as they are more of a memorial than a celebration.
There is very little aggrandisement or 'celebration of War' as the message is really one about loss tempered with mateship and the sacrifices made by our nations.
The dawn service is a pretty sombre affair, and the Ode spoken is a reminder of what the day is all about.
Being typical Aussies though, we all end up in the pub by lunchtime afterwards and get roaring drunk.
Marching in the ANZAC day parades is an honour that a soldier never forgets, as you are paying respect to those that went before, and as a custodian of the ANZAC spirit you are setting the example for those that will follow.
I can fully understand TOZ view though, and would feel the same if I had to march in a 'TT parade'.
I never really have, and more than ever do not buy the notion that parades, television commercials, candy wrappers, movies, roleplaying games, or heavy metal music, influence anybody into doing anything, or aggrandize and glorify any behavior enough to cause anybody with half a brain to want to do those things.
Commercials are an entertaining way to remind you that you like the candy bars you already know you like. They do not sway you into liking them just because some ad exec wants you to. Life does not work that way.
There are plenty of reasons why people join the military. They are all personal, in some way. Some people feel they have no options left, some people come from military families, and some people just like the idea of driving tanks and shooting guns. There are all kinds.
I highly doubt anybody said to themselves, "hey, I like having confetti in my hair. I think I'll join the Marines!"
Its ANZAC (Australian & New Zealand Army Corps) day soon in Australia - There are Dawn Services, our Veterans march it draws huge crowds.....
ANZAC Day initially commemorated the defeat at Gallipoli, very soon it came to commemorate those who served and those that did not comeback from Palestine, the western front and at sea...
Then roughly 21 years later the Western Desert, Greece,and Air War against the Nazi's, The Pacific campaigns as well as those sailors that served in the Atlantic, Mediterranean, Indian and Pacific.
More recently there are the veterans from Korea, Malaya, Vietnam, Dessert Storm 1.0, Afghanistan, Dessert Storm 2.0.... Not to forget the peace keepers we have lost.
We say thank you to these people for the sacrifices they made even if we disagree with the politics of the wars they are fighting...
Do I think that they encourage recruitment..... No otherwise we would not be opening up permission for non Commonwealth soldiers to serve in the Australian Army.
Do they aggrandise war no they are there to thank people for their service and to remember those that did not come home.
They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning,
We will remember them.Lest we forget
Great post 8th Dwarf!
I think you should steer your children into a career in Private Equity.
Then they can support you in your retirement.
.
I have yet to see any evidence I'd consider trustworthy or relevant to prove the view that violent games breed violent crime. Lots of people want this to be true, so much so that they are prepared to ignore any evidence to the contrary (which looks far more substantial, for example studies showing that rape statistics decrease when areas get easy access to porn including especially internet such, that violent crime sinks when local cinemas show violent movies, and so on).
However, I see all these fps war games, TV series where government violence is touted as the solution to crime, where torture is seen as merely a useful tool, amidst an unceasing stream of government propaganda that war is necessary. I find myself divided on this issue. It's not shooting someone in the head in the latest Modern Warfare game that's the problem, but rather the idea that it is okay, because your mission was to shoot the guy.
A parade to thank former soldiers for their actions... well. It is also complicated to me. My general feeling is, though, that it's okay so long as the focus remains VERY FIRMLY on their personal sacrfices.
I don't think the drop of water in the bucket of our aggrandizement of war compares to a sense of closure that we need right now.
Wait...ticker tape? I thought stock tickers went out with the advent of digital reader boards.
ANZAC day is different in that its origins are in defeat. Australians & New Zealanders (as well as Indians, French and British soldiers) were slaughtered en mass as the campaign was badly conceived and badly managed.
Oh! I see. The nature of ANZAC day got lost in your first post.
You read it correctly. I try not to volunteer for many things anymore.I get voluntold for them.Is that a typo, or do you mean that others volunteer you for parades?
I'm the same way. :)
Anyway, I'm a bit confused; was your first post an answer to my OP, or just a goofy drive-by post?
I never really have, and more than ever do not buy the notion that parades, television commercials, candy wrappers, movies, roleplaying games, or heavy metal music, influence anybody into doing anything, or aggrandize and glorify any behavior enough to cause anybody with half a brain to want to do those things.
That's the catch though, isn't it? How many people have a full half of a brain to think with? A lot of adults do (at least 20%, say), but how many kids do? I swear, 1 out of 20 kids in my high school had half a brain, at best! And that's the age where people are most likely to consider joining the military.
I thought I had half a brain, because I've always been highly resistant to advertisements and propaganda. (There's never been an ad that's convinced me to try something I wouldn't otherwise have tried.) But a few years ago those Pepsi vending machines started getting to me. Ya know, the ones with all the water droplets on the blue background. I can't see one without getting a hankering for...well, some kind of soda. And despite the fact that I still can't tell ya what exactly tastes different about a Coke than a Pepsi, I now prefer Pepsi over Coke. (I still have nothing but disdain for people who won't drink one or the other, though.)
Anyhow I might be jaded, but propaganda and ads do have a long track record of working on the general public, if not smarter individuals.
I have yet to see any evidence I'd consider trustworthy or relevant to prove the view that violent games breed violent crime. Lots of people want this to be true, so much so that they are prepared to ignore any evidence to the contrary (which looks far more substantial, for example studies showing that rape statistics decrease when areas get easy access to porn including especially internet such, that violent crime sinks when local cinemas show violent movies, and so on).
However, I see all these fps war games, TV series where government violence is touted as the solution to crime, where torture is seen as merely a useful tool, amidst an unceasing stream of government propaganda that war is necessary. I find myself divided on this issue. It's not shooting someone in the head in the latest Modern Warfare game that's the problem, but rather the idea that it is okay, because your mission was to shoot the guy.
A parade to thank former soldiers for their actions... well. It is also complicated to me. My general feeling is, though, that it's okay so long as the focus remains VERY FIRMLY on their personal sacrfices.
Your thoughts closely reflect my own.
In the case of video games vs. parades, I'd point out that video games are implicitly pretend. (Maybe modern military type games less so than others, but still.) While parades are gatherings of real people cheering on real veterans of real wars.
Wait...ticker tape? I thought stock tickers went out with the advent of digital reader boards.
Honestly, I've no idea why parades for war vets are called "ticker tape" parades. :/
So far as I know, tape has never been involved with them -- ticker or otherwise.
Every formation is a parade, every meal is a banquet.
.
Wait...ticker tape? I thought stock tickers went out with the advent of digital reader boards.Honestly, I've no idea why parades for war vets are called "ticker tape" parades. :/
So far as I know, tape has never been involved with them -- ticker or otherwise.
It comes from these. An impromptu celebration during the dedication of the Statue of Liberty had people throwing the long ribbons of tape from the stock machines out of windows during the parade. Nowadays they just use shredded office paper, I think.
Given the state of veterans' aid, you may as well give them a parade. They're not getting a lot more than that these days.
So, you fight and risk dying in some far off hole you never heard of, and when you get back, someone empties their paper shred bin over you once a year?
=(
So, you fight and risk dying in some far off hole you never heard of, and when you get back, someone empties their paper shred bin over you once a year?
=(
...While you kiss random hotties. Don't forget the hotties. (Scroll down halfway.) It's iconic!
One thing I don't like is that, whie there's a Veterans' day, there's no Fireman's Day or LEO day, both of which probably have much higher mortaity rates except during war (which, except for the past decade) is most of the time.
Good point. Really, there are tons of professions that deserve holidays as much as veterans, mothers, fathers, wife-murdering saints, and whatever other holidays I'm forgetting. Teachers and garbage guys don't risk their lives doing what they do, but they sure deserve recognition for their often-thankless jobs.
In fact, just about anyone working a blue collar job deserves a day of the year.
The thing is all those WW1 (all volunteers in the case of the Australian army) WW2, Korea, Malaya, Vietnam and so on were Farmers, factory workers, firemen, and so on before they were drafted or volunteered to join up. After Vietnam - you are looking at professionals....
I think I read somewhere some US national guard units are serving in Iraq and Afganistan are they full time or part-time reserve units?
So, you fight and risk dying in some far off hole you never heard of, and when you get back, someone empties their paper shred bin over you once a year?
=(
...While you kiss random hotties. Don't forget the hotties. (Scroll down halfway.) It's iconic!
One thing I don't like is that, whie there's a Veterans' day, there's no Fireman's Day or LEO day, both of which probably have much higher mortaity rates except during war (which, except for the past decade) is most of the time.Good point. Really, there are tons of professions that deserve holidays as much as veterans, mothers, fathers, wife-murdering saints, and whatever other holidays I'm forgetting. Teachers and garbage guys don't risk their lives doing what they do, but they sure deserve recognition for their often-thankless jobs.
In fact, just about anyone working a blue collar job deserves a day of the year.
I gotta disagree. Garbagemen might deserve a holiday if they chose to be garbagemen. But I bet most of them are garbagemen because they can't be anything else.
I agree with your last assumption, but I don't see how that makes garbage men any less deserving of recognition. They work hard doing a disgusting job that nobody really wants to do, same as the hypothetical garbage man who chose a garbage career over something more lucrative or glamorous.
What's your logic?
The thing is all those WW1 (all volunteers in the case of the Australian army) WW2, Korea, Malaya, Vietnam and so on were Farmers, factory workers, firemen, and so on before they were drafted or volunteered to join up. After Vietnam - you are looking at professionals....
I think I read somewhere some US national guard units are serving in Iraq and Afganistan are they full time or part-time reserve units?
Not sure whether they're full or part-time, but I was just listening to an interview with Rachel Maddow today in which she mentioned how the regular overuse of the reserve units are one of the ways that our presidents have to effectively declare war without Congress' permission.
Garbagemen are typically pretty happy with their jobs, if I remember the data I have seen. Those I have talked to liked their jobs. Naturally, it is dependent on local rules, but it's a job that lets you get some air, gives you reasonable contact with other people, and you do get used to the smell.
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+1 for ticker tape parades. Especially for the single soldiers. Smooching randos is off the table for me now, but I appreciate any endeavor that gives young Paratroopers a chance to display their excellence to members of the opposite sex--or the same sex, now that it's legal!
Which is nowhere near as cool as May Day--which is right around the corner!
Every formation is a parade, every meal is a banquet..
Every paycheck a fortune. I LOVE THE CORPS!
Garbagemen might deserve a holiday if they chose to be garbagemen. But I bet most of them are garbagemen because they can't be anything else.
Did I miss the garbage man conscriptions? ;-)
There is also Bank Holliday for those of us in the finance industry.
Garbagemen are typically pretty happy with their jobs, if I remember the data I have seen. Those I have talked to liked their jobs. Naturally, it is dependent on local rules, but it's a job that lets you get some air, gives you reasonable contact with other people, and you do get used to the smell.
Whaddya know? I should talk to my garbage guys more often. If only they didn't come so early!
+1 for ticker tape parades. Especially for the single soldiers. Smooching randos is off the table for me now, but I appreciate any endeavor that gives young Paratroopers a chance to display their excellence to members of the opposite sex--or the same sex, now that it's legal!
Woot!
We already have a day for people whose jobs suck, its called Labor day
Sure, and we also have more specific holidays for some of those thankless professions in addition to Labor Day. For some reason.
Which is nowhere near as cool as May Day--which is right around the corner!
I love that there's a holiday just to celebrate the first of May, basically. We should have that every month; and it should mean taking the day off. :)
Garbage men get to laugh at the people who run out in their PJs or underwear cause they forgot to take the bins out the night before... Lol ( I've experienced this from the Pj'd perspective a time or to.)
Even in such a small city as Manchester, NH, an acquaintence of mine was thrilled to get a job as a union city garbageman. He figured that, barring unforeseen disasters, he was pretty much set for life.
Garbage men get to laugh at the people who run out in their PJs or underwear cause they forgot to take the bins out the night before... Lol ( I've experienced this from the Pj'd perspective a time or to.)
Two!...