Ultimate Grappler

[Gunn]

Hi, I'm looking to make the ultimate monk grappler. I am open to any suggestions as to feats or abilities worth taking. So far Im taking

Improved Grapple
Greater Grapple
Rapid Grapple

I also like the idea of chokehold, and Pinning Knockout, but they don't seem that useful since you can just tie up a pinned opponent. Why bother taking a feat to improve your pin when you can take them out of a fight without it. I'm eager to hear any ideas or insights you may have. Thanks.

[nicklas Læssøe]

at low levels where you dont have those extra feats anyway, then you are right they are pretty bad. But the challange at levels 5+ is to actually find a rope that can hold a dragon/barbarian/large monster or anything of those types. This means that at some point you will have to start hitting them even while they are pinned, so generally i like chokehold for that.

Also the feat that lets you move the grappled opponent in front of an enemys attack so he hits his friend instead is pretty awsome, just cant remember what it is called.

[Daryl MacLeod]

Maneuvre master might be an archetype to check out.

[Archomedes]

tetori archetype + crane style.

Dodge bonuses get added to your CMD, negate one melee attack per round while boosting your ac and CMD by grappling defensively. You get to make an attack of opportunity whenever they try to break your grapple too, and the damage gets subtracted from their attack roll.

Use a dan bong for an extra +2 to grapple checks and +1 shield bonus to AC when fighting defensively, and you are an invincible grappler.

Add in the enforcer feat, and your foes will be shaken for the duration for the fight, suffer -2 penalties on attacks and CMB checks and never, ever escape you.

I should warn you now though, this is probably not a fair character to play, very little will be able to stop you.

[Gunn]

Nicklas that's a very good point. I may take chokehold or pinning knockout after all now Also if you could find out the name of that feat, that sounds awesome.

Daryl, I thought about going maneuver master, but I'm really looking to be like an all around nasty unarmed fighter. Grappling and Striking, I just already have the striking side of the build finished. Now I'm looking to compliment it with some sweet grappling. I was really excited reading the Maneuver master archetype until I saw that you have to give up your flurry of blows which I can't Part with.

[Gunn]

Archomedes, I'm afraid I don't see the value of all the defense. Wouldn't that depend on someone else trying to grapple me to be able to use, or am I missing something?

[Raje]

Gunn wrote:

Daryl, I thought about going maneuver master, but I'm really looking to be like an all around nasty unarmed fighter. Grappling and Striking, I just already have the striking side of the build finished. Now I'm looking to compliment it with some sweet grappling. I was really excited reading the Maneuver master archetype until I saw that you have to give up your flurry of blows which I can't Part with.

Flurry doesn't really help you grappling though, as you can't flurry while grappling. If you want to be striking and compliment it with grappling you're not really the "ultimate grappler" either.

If we're looking at archetypes for a grappler you could go the tetori route, although the bonus feats from it are a bit late/weak, but you get some handy abilities down the line. The maneuver master gives you more options other than grappling, as you could do a flurry where you combinate different maneuvers and finish the flurry with a grapple (strike, trip, grapple for example) - there's some build around for that, but I cba to find it right now, you could try to google "judo master maneuver monk" or so.

An interesting feat (but I don't know how effective in actual play) would be Sleeper Hold, especially for those who don't have too much con, then just coup de grace away, or bind, or whatever you fancy for 1d4 rounds.

Neckbreaker is fun too, but has a heavy feat tax and comes in late.

If you feel like using some kind of style feat you could consider Snapping Turtle Clutch, for that nice grapple someone who misses you kind of thing.

[Daryl MacLeod]

Loosing flurry of blows is a big hit. But it's kind of like that hot girlfriend that's super b1tchy and controlling. When you're with her you can't think of life without her cuz she's so damn hot. But once she's gone you realize how liberating it is being away from her nagging and restrictive ways...

Once you take that step away from FoB you realize a whack of other options open up for you...

You lose FoB and you lose full BAB attacks with a limited number of weapons (which sucks)... But you do gain 3/4 BAB with a whole host of interesting weapons such as the falcata or the fauchard and you also get 1.5X STR to damage - which isn't half bad.

If you don't mind moving only as fast as your friends you can also strap on some armour after you free yourself of FoB. You can also afford to dump a little more WIS to have a little more STR or CON.

So you gain the use of trip/reach weapons like the fauchard and use of armour and Flurry of Maneuvres...

It may take a level dip into fighter or another martial class of your choice to get the armour proficeincy without wasting a feat and you may have to be a half elf to get proficiency with the fauchard from level 1, but the point I'm trying to make is that once you liberate yourself from FoB you may find there are bunch of other chix worth getting to know, if however briefly...

[Daryl MacLeod]

Oh, and if your a lady think of FoB as that super douchey guy with the 6 pack and popped collar that all your friends think is hot but in the end he's super douchey and has a popped collar and that 6 packs gonna disappear as soon as you settle down anyway...

[Mergy]

Daryl, that analogy got away from you at the end.

The tetori is hands down the best grappler. He can grapple things way bigger than him, he gets the grab special attack with his unarmed strikes, he gets the constrict special attack, and he gets a ton of grapple-related bonus feats for free.

If you want, splash in 3-5 levels of fighter (lore warden) for an increase to CMB and to grab weapon training for your unarmed strikes.

[Bardic Dave]

Daryl, your analogies are awesome!

[Daryl MacLeod]

My analogies are fueled by beer. I apologize. The In-laws were over for dinner this evening and for some reason they go well with a liberal amount of beer... Had to add that last part in the second post because I didn't want to be perceived as being sexist when I was clearly being masogynistic.