Diversity solely for diversity's sake is unfortunately of debatable value almost everywhere except the United States. But since Paizo is an American Company and Pathfinder is a game played in the United States, there is no good reason for it not to be diverse in its representation of characters. Paizo wants Pathfinder to appeal to as many customers as possible. That is good business. Men, Women, Black, White, Asian, Latino, I am sure that Paizo wants them all as customers. Diversity, whatever its morality, makes good business sense.What?
I'm not sure you have an entirely realistic view of the rest of the world. Just for example, the uk contains four primary native cultures, two first languages, and the primary population of england is the result of no less than four waves of migration. Thats just talking about the various flavours of historically native white people.
We have significant communities of people from various african nations, caribian nations, from india, pakistan, china, greece, turkey and poland. As well as jewish communities which have been here for hundreds of years.
Thats just sticking with the really large communities
What?
I'm sure you noticed that I said "almost".
But hey I know you British make a big deal about differentiating between a couple of different kinds of white people...
just kidding or trolling or whatever you want to call it...
as a history teacher I know that the difference between Scott and Welsh and Irish and English is a big deal and that Britain's legacy of Empire means that there are Indians and Asians as well not to mention Muslims...
That is why I said "almost". You will have to forgive me for noticing that most of the world is not only not interested in heterogeneity but is actively opposed to it.
Lets see.
France: almost 1 in 5 of the french population is not french born, with the Maghrebis population making up a significant part of that population.
spain: 1 in 10 people not native spanish, ignoring internal ethnic groups.
The phillipines: Muslim nation, but with a vast catholic population, plus a vast array of ethnicities.
The world is not as you imagine it.
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I must say that I have always been very pleased and impressed with the way Paizo has taken care with the mix of it's iconics and other characters. I think that the focus in the past, D&D being a major offender, was on all the "heroes" being either white males (of whatever fantasy race) or a cheesecake-type female. Both types were meant to appeal to the (perhaps stereotypical) customer demographic, but had the side effect of generally alienating those not in that demographic.
I remember reading about this thing called kin recognition which argues that when we meet a new person for the first time the more traits we see in them that we believe we have (or people important to us), the more positive our first impression. I guess for a gaming business this is relevant because people's first impression is largely influenced by the artwork, particularly the covers. I know for me when I make a character its a lot like seeing myself as a character in a movie so I can see the importance in having iconics and artwork that people see similiarities to them. So surely more diversity in the artwork is better for Paizo.
If I was to play critic with the artwork it would be that there is still a lot of overly scantily clad iconics in the APG and Core. Why any female adventurer would be running about like the Oracle in the APG is beyond me. Female soldiers were body armour and helmets not tank tops when going into dangerous areas.
Also the south pacific is neglected by RPG products. The Aboriginal culture is the oldest living culture in the world and yet I've never seen it or an influence of it in a RPG product. I'd say that this is because of the lack of exposure and expertise by writers, artists and developers to the people and cultures of this corner of the world. I don't know how many of Paizo's stable are outside of the US and UK, but it would be nice to see a little slice of my part of the world in a quality RPG product.
The oracle isn't meant to be a front line fighter, or at least that particular oracle isn't. Since she probably has defensive spells up during most combats, she may be as well protected as most other non-melee characters.
I would agree if ALL the female characters dressed like that. Most of them do not, however. The only melee character that I can think of who has significant exposed skin is Amiri, and barbarians get tough skin (Damage reduction) so it's not entirely unreasonable. It's definitely not stereotypical superheroine-style cheesecake. I should qualify that -- Amiri is the only female melee character with exposed skin. Seltyiel has his manly, half-elven, white-as-a-sheet hairless chest partly exposed.
I remember reading about this thing called kin recognition which argues that when we meet a new person for the first time the more traits we see in them that we believe we have (or people important to us), the more positive our first impression. I guess for a gaming business this is relevant because people's first impression is largely influenced by the artwork, particularly the covers. I know for me when I make a character its a lot like seeing myself as a character in a movie so I can see the importance in having iconics and artwork that people see similiarities to them. So surely more diversity in the artwork is better for Paizo.
If I was to play critic with the artwork it would be that there is still a lot of overly scantily clad iconics in the APG and Core. Why any female adventurer would be running about like the Oracle in the APG is beyond me. Female soldiers were body armour and helmets not tank tops when going into dangerous areas.
Also the south pacific is neglected by RPG products. The Aboriginal culture is the oldest living culture in the world and yet I've never seen it or an influence of it in a RPG product. I'd say that this is because of the lack of exposure and expertise by writers, artists and developers to the people and cultures of this corner of the world. I don't know how many of Paizo's stable are outside of the US and UK, but it would be nice to see a little slice of my part of the world in a quality RPG product.
I did a whole aboriginal section back in the early 90s when I did GURPS Wild Cards: Aces Abroad. Long out of print, admittedly, but it was done.
Apart from that, the only other aboriginal thing I remember seeing was the cover of some D&D product where the artist decided that orcs looked like aborigines with glowing red eyes. Probably not what anyone was wanting.
Speak of Orcs can somebody help me with something?
http://uncpress.unc.edu/browse/page/338
The cover art for this book is from the 1840s. The image is suppose to represent Texas contemplating its future. Not visible on the cover is the African slave the orc like figure is setting on. Also the tattoos on the arms spell out things like "hate" and "slavery."
Any art historians out there want to take a shot of explaining the history of this type of image. I mean that's fairly clearly an Orc.
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Speak of Orcs can somebody help me with something?
http://uncpress.unc.edu/browse/page/338
The cover art for this book is from the 1840s. The image is suppose to represent Texas contemplating its future. Not visible on the cover is the African slave the orc like figure is setting on. Also the tattoos on the arms spell out things like "hate" and "slavery."
Any art historians out there want to take a shot of explaining the history of this type of image. I mean that's fairly clearly an Orc.
My guess?
That is not an orc.
That is dehumanisation of your foe.
Orcs (in the Tolkien and post-Tolkien sense) are degenerate/feral/corrupted versions of humans/elves, so they draw upon a pool of imagery that is shared by dehumanising propogandists.
Also the south pacific is neglected by RPG products. The Aboriginal culture is the oldest living culture in the world and yet I've never seen it or an influence of it in a RPG product.
Didn't Palladium do two Australia books?
Old World Of Darkness had Rage Across Australia as well. Also, I think that the Aboriginal beliefs have influenced the overall construction of Umbra in that setting.
Old World Of Darkness had Rage Across Australia as well. Also, I think that the Aboriginal beliefs have influenced the overall construction of Umbra in that setting.
Even though it was incredibly dark, the WoD stuff was probably the most accurate and least cheesy of any of the RPG books about Australia and its Aboriginal section was not too bad.
Sorry Kevin I did not get to read your GURPs book so I am unable to judge its accuracy.
Of the Palladium books TMNT after the bomb down under source book was the better of the two. And the most fun. Ernie my Ninja Dingo who used traditional aboriginal weapons was a lot of fun.
The Shadowrun book was incredibly disappointing....
The problem with creating a source book or source material is a lot of the oral histories and mythologies died with a vast portion of the Aboriginal after colonisation. The aboriginal population of Australia has been estimated to have been around 3 million before colonisation, within 50 years the European diseases reduced that number to less than 1 million.
The great nations, tribes and clans collapsed and although they did resist bravely, there were never enough Aboriginal people to maintain an effective resistance to the British colonists.
(Before any in post colonial nations such as Canada New Zealand or the US comment, please take the time to consider the predations, broken promises/treaties, and genocidal treatment handed out to the native populations of your counties while our forebears were stealing their land... Also as a very wise woman said to me - you can not claim your heritage unless you know the name of your people and where their country is).
A lot of people both inside and outside Australia see Aboriginal people as a monolithic culture. There were well over 200 nations and almost as many languages, they had complex trade routes - minerals for a type of paint colour found only near the far sothern coast of Australia have been found in the Top End, axe heads from Western Australia are found in NSW.
The archaeology is fascinating the Aboringal cultures have been continuous for at least 50,000 years. There was considerable contact with Indonesia and the Dingo was introduced only 5000 years ago.
Old World Of Darkness had Rage Across Australia as well. Also, I think that the Aboriginal beliefs have influenced the overall construction of Umbra in that setting.Even though it was incredibly dark, the WoD stuff was probably the most accurate and least cheesy of any of the RPG books about Australia and its Aboriginal section was not too bad.
I'll remember that if I ever get Rage Across Australia in my hands.
Sorry Kevin I did not get to read your GURPs book so I am unable to judge its accuracy.
If only SJG would publish GURPS - Australia... Their culture books are some of my favorite rpg accessories ever.