I've been reading the threads here for a bit now and stumbled on the point that most clerics use wands to heal with. While I have been playing RPGs for close to 20yrs, I've never even thought about using wands as a primary means of healing. Granted I usually play clerics that can spontaniously cast healing so I've never memmed healing spells. With all this in mind, was/am I gimping my class by not using wands as a primary source of healing?
Wand of CLW costs 750 gp (375 if you make it yourself) for 50d8+50 healing total, around 275 HPs total on average. From a gp/HP healed view that one is just the most economic thing to use compared to any other magic item that heals. Wands of CMW or CSW or so are way to expensive.
And at later levels that price really isn't alot anymore.
Of course if you got Channel Energy left, and lots of people got hurt, use that, and then the wand to top the HP of. Or at the end of a day convert your spells into heals and heal up.
During the day though when its not clear what else is coming, alot of clerics prefer to keep their spells if they can.
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Also, wands don't provoke in case you need to deliver some emergency healing in melee.
Strictly speaking, Infernal Healing, Lesser wands are the most cost effective healing per HP, but they are not useful in-combat and certain goody two shoes characters might object.
Is there a feat that makes using a wand better or more powerful or would metamagic feats transfer to wands? Such as, could I use "Maximize Spell" with a wand of cure light wounds?
You can craft them at higher CL, but with cure spells that usually wasted money.
Twice the price for 1d8+2 instead of 1d8+1.
I thought there was something that lets you use wands at higher levels, but can't find it now. Maybe i imagined it (and even if not it was very high level)
As for metamagic, you can make a Wand of Maximized CLW. But that counts as a 4th level spell with CL 7 then. In that case a wand of Cure critical would be better (even though still terrible).
It's a Magus Arcana to use wands at your caster level.
If you mean Wand Mastery that just lets you use your Int for the DC.
There's also Wand Lord, which elts you spend arcane pool points to increase the CL of a wand, but its a 3rd party Arcana, so not sure its allowed everywhere.
Exactly. Wands of CLW are out of combat tools. If your fighter gets down to 5 HPs and still has a couple of enemies to face, then you channel energy or you convert a spell into cure critical, or cast a Heal or something, because now time is an issue.
Out of combat however it's not. Sure at high levels you might burn through the entire wand one one or two characters after a fight, but its super cheap. A Cure Critical Wounds Scroll (one time 4d8+7) costs as much as the entire wand of CLW. That scroll might be a lifesaver in combat, but out of combat... beh.
Well then it seems that channeling spells during combat and using wands to top off after combat seems the most appropriate uses of my resources. Guess I haven't been playing clerics all that wrong to begin with, I just never really used wands to top off player out of combat. Thanks for all the feedback.
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This is written for 3.5, but the theme remains true. Take the advice and apply it to PF options.
(And, why you will be Just Fine without a Cleric to heal)Healin'. Patchin' up the wounds. Sewing the Fighter's larynx back in after he took an arrow through the neck and lived and wanted to tell about it. Every player knows the drill. But oddly, a lot of players just use really... silly methods of going about healing themselves, and have some wild misconceptions about how to do it effectively and even how much of a priority it should be.
The Problems
Some players think they *have* to have a cleric or druid to cover the healing role, and place healing as an extremely high priority, even in combat, and even if they don't, many even spend inordinate amounts of money on extremely inefficient healing items that may hurt them more than help them.
To summarize a few common issues:
Players overprioritize healing in combat when there are more effective options available to them.
Players spend too much money on healing, often spending wads of cash on things like potions of Cure Moderate Wounds.
Players believe they can't heal efficiently without a Cleric or Druid or similar class in the party, and view such as an essential role, to the point where some even *force* others to play a Cleric or Druid just so that they can have a dedicated healer, and then downplay the extraordinary talents of those classes and belittle them to a mere healing role, making for an unenjoyable experience for the victim of this treatment.
Many players just don't know how to get the best healing for their buck.
Some Information and Comparisons
First, an effort at dispelling some of the myths. First off, you should probably never be buying healing potions, perhaps with the exception of Cure Light Wounds or a similar level 1 spell. The reason for this is simple. The cost is exorbitant, and it's really not worth it. A Cure Serious Wounds potion will heal, on average, 18.5 hp, and it will cost you 750gp, and it will take either a standard or a full round action to use, and it will provoke AoOs unless you did some further investment to prevent that, and on top of that it probably smells bad and tastes bitter. Yuck. For the same price, you could have gotten a Wand of Cure Light Wounds (275hp total instead of 18.5hp), a Wand of Lesser Vigor (550hp total instead of 18.5gp), or a Healing Belt (Either 6d8 hp (average 27 hp) a day, or 18 hp (same as the potion!) per day if you burst heal, usable as a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.)) Would you rather get 18 hp, or 18 hp per day? Now would you rather use a standard or full action that provokes AoOs, *and* need to draw the item, or would you rather use a standard action that doesn't provoke AoOs? And hey, wouldn't you like the option to heal even more for efficiency, outside of battle? There's even another option, this one for artificers, that costs a mere 50 gp a pop: Infuse an ally with Greater Healing armor. This will give them 6d8+30 total healing (3d8+15 as a swift action, usable twice). As an added bonus, it will even automatically heal you if you get knocked unconscious. The point is... potions are bad. Potions are inefficient. So are scrolls of Cure Moderate Wounds, Cure Serious Wounds, and so forth.
Second, a dedicated healer is not a necessary combat role. Seriously.
First off, healing often does not outpace damage. Moreover, removing an enemy a threat can often be much more effective at saving your allies' necks than going up and poking them with Cure X Wounds. If an enemy were to deal 50 damage to an ally, and you can take that enemy out by either disabling or killing them, then you've "healed" that ally of the 50 damage he would have taken. Additionally, as healing often does not keep up the pace with damage, even if you can't disable the enemy, healing the ally might not be good enough to save them. Instead, you might want to use an ability to help the ally escape, or block the enemy from attacking them (this can be something as simple as Benign Transposition, really). In fact, healing in combat is only situationally a good choice, and is often a subpar tactical option.
Secondly, you can get very efficient out-of-combat healing quite easily without a Cleric or Druid, and indeed a Rogue, Artificer, Paladin, Ranger, Factotum, Warlock, or Bard could fill the healing role with a wand of Cure Light Wounds or Lesser Vigor. In fact, you can even get good, cheap burst healing comparable to the Cleric or Druid's ability at low levels with items like the Healing Belt.
Actually, the Artificer can prove to be a fantastic healer, cheaply (we're talking 37.5% market price here) turning out healing belts, wands of lesser vigor, and providing Greater Healing armor infusions (a mere second level infusion) at an early level. The Paladin and Ranger can use wands of Cure Light Wounds without penalty, and the others can use UMD to master the efficient wands. On top of that, members of *any* class can easily chip in with the very efficient Healing Belt.
These things considered, you really can get by without a Cleric or Druid. In fact, if you do have a Cleric or Druid, they're probably going to be more useful in most combats if they are doing something OTHER than healing, since they have considerable talents in many regards.
How to Heal Effectively
(Author's note: I have excluded a few very potent and efficient means of healing because things like the infinite-healing-for-cheap trap and other such things are just plain abusive, and few sane DMs will allow them)Blessed Bandages (10gp, MiC page 152): 10gp to automatically succeed to stabilize an ally. Can definitely save a friend at very low levels.
Wands of Cure Light Wounds (750gp, Core): The hallmark of efficiency. These wands will dish out an average of 5.5hp a pop, and with 50 charges that will add up to 275 total healing. This wand gains an advantage over Lesser Vigor in two respects: Speed of use, and the fact that Lesser Vigor is a Cleric and Druid only spell, and thus is only available to those classes and UMD users, while Paladins and Rangers and the like will stick to Cure Light Wounds.
Wands of Lesser Vigor (750gp, Spell Compendium Page 229): These are the most efficient healing wands around! You get 11 hp per pop (though it takes a full minute to gain that 11 hp), and you get a total of 550hp of healing for your 750gp.
Healing Belts (750gp, MiC page 110): For 750gp, *anyone* can heal 6d8 hp a day, and even burst heal for 4d8hp as a Standard action with a Touch range, and does not provoke attacks of opportunity like spells and scrolls. Also, with the MiC rules for adding common effects, you don't even need to worry about "keeping the slot free" anymore. You can actually just say, give one of these to everyone in a party of 5 for 30d8 healing per day, and just subsidize your healing costs. This is a great way to keep everyone alive at low levels. As if this weren't good enough, you get feel-good +2 bonus to Heal checks as a bonus.
Artificers can heal very effectively with Greater Healing Armor (MiC page 12), dishing out 3d8+15 healing *twice* usable as a swift action, and even automatically healing a character should they fall unconscious. Best of all, this only costs you 50gp for a total of 6d8+30hp healing, and is available at a very low level.
Wand of Faith Healing (Spell Compendium): It's kinda cheesy, but it's worth mentioning if your DM allows it. It's exactly the same as Cure Light Wounds, except maximized and only usable on people who share your faith (which can easily just be everyone in your party). I personally don't allow this spell as a DM.
Touch of Healing (Reserve Feat, Complete Champion pg 62): This one is for the actual "healers." As long as you have a healing spell of second level or higher ready to cast, you can heal anyone up to half their total hp (but no higher, meaning you have to use more abilities to fully heal them) for free. Basically, for the cost of a feat, you get a lot of free healing.
Summon Nature's Ally IV (Core): Summoning a Unicorn nets you a free set of 3 CLWs, 1 CMW, and a Neutralize Poison. It has a caster level of 5th, so that'll total 5d8+20 points of healing (and a neutralize poison). It's even something a druid can cast spontaneously. Not bad.
Revivify (Cleric 5, Spell Compendium page 176): Revive your dead buddy for 1000gp as a standard action instead of for 5000gp as a much longer action, and best of all *no level loss.* A no brainer really. You just need to be quick about it, acting within 1 round of the victim's death!
Revenance (Cleric 4, Paladin 4, Bard 6): This spell can target any character that died within 1 round / caster level of casting. The subject comes back to life (as if by Raise Dead except with no penalties) and is able to fight (with a +1 morale bonus on attack, damage, and saves against the person who killer her) for 1 minute per level, at the end of which the character dies again. The real seller here is that it has a wider window to cast than Revivify (1 round / level), and moreover the ally will die at the end of the spell (or after being killed again), often allowing you to use Revivify when it would otherwise be impossible (window passed) or too dangerous (in the middle of combat).
Delay Death (Cleric 4, Spell Compendium page 63): As an *Immediate Action*, the ally becomes unable to die from hit point damage (they'll still fall unconscious, they just won't die.) This means that you can instantaneously cast this spell when a buddy takes their final hit, and they won't die for 1 round/level (during which time you can finish the encounter, then heal them up.) Can definitely be a lifesaver.
Tomb Tainted Soul (Feat, Libris Mortis): This handy feat allows you to be healed by negative energy. This means that a living Dread Necromancer can heal you to full as much as she likes with Charnel Touch, and that you can heal yourself with things like Uttercold metamagiced spells and the like.
Amulet of Retributive Healing (2000gp, MiC Page 69): This handy little doodad lets you double up on your healing 3 times per day. When activated (as a swift action) this amulet allows you to cure yourself of an amount of damage equal to however much you cured your buddy of. So, if you cast Heal on your ally, you can activate this item to use a free quickened Heal on yourself. Works with scrolls and everything, too.
Collar of Healing (5000gp, MiC page 90): As an *Immediate action* once per day, heal your animal companion of 50hp and cures the Fatigued or Exhausted conditions. Keep your little buddy going. As an added bonus, it works at any range (as long as you're on the same plane), and lets you know your companion's exact hit point total at all times.
Heal (Core): Heal is a great spell. It really is. It's the healing spell you actually might want to use in fights fairly often. It heals a ton of damage, and it takes away ability damage, blinded, confused, dazed, dazzled, deafened, diseased, exhausted, fatigued, feebleminded, insanity, nauseated, sickened, stunned, and poisoned. A laundry list of status effects, some of which are quite deadly in their own right! However, Heal is not a necessary party role in and of itself! Again, you don't actually need *any* in-combat healing to have a highly effective party. Still, when you *do* have a Cleric or Druid around, there's no reason they shouldn't have this ready. If you don't have a Cleric or Druid around, you may want to consider a scroll or two of this for those few situations where you really do want a Heal (i.e., your buddy just got blasted for 100 damage and got stunned to boot).
Divine Ward (Feat, PHB II): This feat will help out the "true healers," allowing them to use Close Range instead of Touch Range for their healing spells on one ally by spending your Turning attempts. You can get a similar results with Divine Metamagic (Reach Spell) (Which happens to be doubly useful for, say, a ranged Slay Living).
Augment Healing (Feat, Complete Divine): Add +2 healing per level of the healing spell cast. Simple and effective for a dedicated healer, should you choose to get one.
False Life (Sor/Wiz 2, Core):
Instead of taking up an action to heal during combat, take an action to heal up to 1 hour / level before combat ever happens! See also, Aid (Cleric 2, PHB)Empathic Transfer (Egoist 2, Psychic Warrior 2, XPH): This useful power is the standy of healing as a Psionic character. The method is a little unique as opposed to standard methods of healing, but it works just as well. You eliminate anywhere from 2d10 to 10d10 (depending on augment) hp of damage from an ally, and transfer half of that damage onto yourself. Combined with Vigor (Psion 1, Psychic Warrior 1, XPH), and Share Pain (Psion 2, XPH) both shared to your psicrystal through Share Powers, the temporary hit points will absorb all of the damage.
Vigor (Psion 1, Psychic Warrior 1, XPH): This power giives you 5 temporary hit points per power point spent, lasting for a minute per level. It's like healing *before* you ever take damage, and lets you buff beforehand in order to avoid the need to heal in combat.
Amulet of Tears (2300gp, MiC page 70): Another source of temporary hit points, this handy item stores 3 charges per day and grants temporary hit points lasting for 10 minutes based on the number of charges spent. For 1 charge, you gain 12 tmporary hit points, and for 3 charges grants 24 temporary hit points.
Share Pain (Psion 2, XPH): This power transfers half of the damage dealt to you to a willing subject, and thus helps a good deal with damage mitigation. It lasts for an hour per level, so can last for a full day's worth of encounters, and a popular use is to combine it with a Vigor (Psion 1, Psychic Warrior 1, XPH) power shared with your psicrystal and make your psicrystal the subject, effectively doubling the effect of vigor and transferring a good deal of hp damage onto a target that is often a noncombatant.
Shield Other (Cleric 2, Paladin 2, Core): This is much like Share Pain, except it deals half of an ally's damage to you, helping you to protect them. It also adds a +1 resistance bonus to saves and a +1 deflection bonus to AC for the target, as an added plus.
Vampiric Touch (Sor/Wiz 3, Duskblade 3, Core): 1d6 damage per two levels, and gain temporary hp equal to the damage dealt. This spell is notable for combining offensive abilities and effective in-combat "healing" into the same attack. This spell is useful in spell storing weapons, or channeled through a Duskblade's "Arcane Channelling" ability. It is generally *not* a good idea for the average mage to run up into melee and try to touch an enemy with it, because the damage will be low and the temporary hp probably won't save you from a world of pain (unless you have other protective spells and such up). Also note that if you're an Unseen Seer or Arcane Trickster, you can increase the amount healed with sneak attacks!
Bloodstone weapon enhancement (+1, page 29 MiC): Stores and casts Vampiric Touch just like a spell storing weapon, except that it's automatically empowered. Basically, this will deal extra damage on attacks equal to (1d6 per two caster levels)*1.5, *and* give the wielder of the weapon temporary hp equal to the damage dealt. Thus, you're adding to damage and to healing at the same time! See also: Vampiric Touch.
Bodyfeeder weapon enhancement (+3 bonus, XPH): This handy enhancement will grant its wielder temporary hit points equal to the damage dealt by any critical hit he dishes out. With an expanded critical hit range, you can expect this to give a steady stream of temporary hp. This enhancement can be granted by an artificer spending a 3rd level infusion and a small amount of gp. (Note: Though "Wrathful Healing" is almost certainly more effective, it's much less likely to be allowed)
Well then it seems that channeling spells during combat and using wands to top off after combat seems the most appropriate uses of my resources. Guess I haven't been playing clerics all that wrong to begin with, I just never really used wands to top off player out of combat. Thanks for all the feedback.
Yea wands are not for 'in combat' situations. If the fighter goes down and you need him back up so he can continue standing between you and the big bad guy, then after first or second level, a wand wont do.
However, outside of combat, when you are trying to get patched up for the next encounter, or just to move on, it is far better to save your spells for buffs and offensive spells, and use a wand to recover those extra hit points. Though channel energy is great when all or most of the party is injured as well.
Basically at the end of the day, it doesn't matter much, but in the middle of the day it can mean a handful of extra useful spells later on. Which as a primary caster is always a good thing.
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It almost certainly is. IIRC, you couldn't even make wands of clerical spells in prior editions (certainly in 1st ed., where again if I recall correctly only magic-users [wizards] could even use wands).
Edit to say: In my estimation this is one of the biggest mistakes in 3+e. The wizard with his wand is a fantasy staple. The...priest? Not so much. Doesn't fit the flavor, and marginalizes the Cleric class a bit. Lose/lose in my book.
It almost certainly is. IIRC, you couldn't even make wands of clerical spells in prior editions (certainly in 1st ed., where again if I recall correctly only magic-users [wizards] could even use wands).
Edit to say: In my estimation this is one of the biggest mistakes in 3+e. The wizard with his wand is a fantasy staple. The...priest? Not so much. Doesn't fit the flavor, and marginalizes the Cleric class a bit. Lose/lose in my book.
How do divine wands marginalize the cleric? I mean I get how you might say it doesn't fit some of the flavor, but why would the extra resource hurt the cleric? If anything it helps them, saving their spell slots for more useful spells.
Well then it seems that channeling spells during combat and using wands to top off after combat seems the most appropriate uses of my resources. Guess I haven't been playing clerics all that wrong to begin with, I just never really used wands to top off player out of combat. Thanks for all the feedback.
My experience has been that clerics really rock the Kasbah for larger parties - mechanically, a larger party draws higher CR monsters which are harder to hit, have more hp and do more damage. If you can spread out the damage taken (say with shield other or by casting buffs to even out ACs) then Channeling is uber-useful. For a small party channeling is still good but that party can get by with a wand of CLW wielded by someone else if need be.
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They're devalued because virtually every character that can cast divine spells (+ bards) can be the "top off guy" with wands around. What has been the Cleric's "schtick" since 1e - keeping the party alive - is now something everyone can do. Me no likey.
It's worth saying that my view on this is quite extreme and unusual, and I recognize that. Many, many people prefer the status quo on this subject, and I understand all the reasons why, I just don't agree with them.
Essentially, I miss the days of "Who's going to play the cleric?" because it was always me, and I loved it.
I've been reading the threads here for a bit now and stumbled on the point that most clerics use wands to heal with. While I have been playing RPGs for close to 20yrs, I've never even thought about using wands as a primary means of healing. Granted I usually play clerics that can spontaniously cast healing so I've never memmed healing spells. With all this in mind, was/am I gimping my class by not using wands as a primary source of healing?
Yes, you have playing the game WRONG!!!!!!!!
LOL, it is the internet, where there if often only one way to play. If what you have been doing has been working, I don't think you are playing wrong.
From a pure efficiency perspective CLW wands are the best healing option in the game. They fall under the category of "too good to pass up."
Some gaming purists consider the CLW wand to be the prototypical overused magic item and feel it interferes with the game's mechanics by making healing too trivial. I know I have snarked myellf about characters running around with bundles of CLW wands stuck in their backpack like firewood.
This is a major reason why 4e implemented the "healing surge" mechanic. Stacks of CLW wand essentially remove healing as a limiting factor for adventurers.
But if your GM has them freely available, you should use them as much as possible. You shouldn't be healing much in combat anyway.
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They're devalued because virtually every character that can cast divine spells (+ bards) can be the "top off guy" with wands around. What has been the Cleric's "schtick" since 1e - keeping the party alive - is now something everyone can do. Me no likey.
It's worth saying that my view on this is quite extreme and unusual, and I recognize that. Many, many people prefer the status quo on this subject, and I understand all the reasons why, I just don't agree with them.
Essentially, I miss the days of "Who's going to play the cleric?" because it was always me, and I loved it.
If it's just a matter of wanting to play a healer, you can still make a very effective one with a Pathfinder cleric.
The Healing domain, for instance, gives you extra healing spells and eventually Empowers all your cure spells for free. You can get a magic item to make your channeling more potent as well.
The "classic healer" still exists for those who want it, it's just not required. But people are still very happy when one's at the table. :)
They're devalued because virtually every character that can cast divine spells (+ bards) can be the "top off guy" with wands around. What has been the Cleric's "schtick" since 1e - keeping the party alive - is now something everyone can do. Me no likey.
It's worth saying that my view on this is quite extreme and unusual, and I recognize that. Many, many people prefer the status quo on this subject, and I understand all the reasons why, I just don't agree with them.
Essentially, I miss the days of "Who's going to play the cleric?" because it was always me, and I loved it.
Well there is still alot of value in the cleric but its different. You arent just a bandaid anymore, you are a fountain of effective magic, of condition removal and buffs. I mean the cleric ALWAYS had those things, but they ended up not getting used in favor of 'top off'. Now you can top off AND do those cool other things, and ofcourse it means there doesn't HAVE to be a cleric. But I have never seen a group not happy to have a cleric in it. Heck my group still asks that question even when we have built in mechanisms beyond the norm so we dont need one as much.
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Pound for pound item healing in 3.X based systems is better once you hit level 5 or so. The catch is clerics will aways be more useful mitgating the side effect than direct damage.
Fear, Stone, Curse, etc still need to be contained and dealth with in a hasty fasion. Itemization for the status changes is not as cheap itemwise.
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Well then it seems that channeling spells during combat and using wands to top off after combat seems the most appropriate uses of my resources. Guess I haven't been playing clerics all that wrong to begin with, I just never really used wands to top off player out of combat. Thanks for all the feedback.
I have one quibble with this concept. It can vary greatly depending upon the campaign and GM.
The current campaign I am in is one of those. We are now 7th level and have had exactly 11 days down time and almost every day other day has been non stop investigating if not fighting. So we have had no time to make anything significant ourselves. We have been in very tiny hamlets and villages that do not have wands of CLW for sale just a few potions, salves, and healing kits. We burned through our 1 wand very early not realizing it couldn't be replaced easily. We have been struggling to get by without a healer. I am actually retiring my wizard to make a life oracle to be the healer.
I don't know if this is the way the AP was written or if modified by our GM, but it can occasionally happens that a healer really is necessary.
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For any rpg grognards out there, I'd love for someone to pull out their old D&D or AD&D (1e/2e) books and see if, and how, the cost and charges of a Wand of CLW has evolved over the years. I wonder if 3e is potentially where wanding between combats became economically efficient?
Well, in 1e/2e, the charged healing item was a staff, and I think it actually just worked on each person once a day for CLW. I don't have my books with me at the moment to double check. (I might be remembering BECMI)
Assigning a price is a tricky thing, because the concept of buying magic items or making them with money was introduced in 3e. Making a 2e staff of healing might require the crafter to gather materials like "blood from a man who has never been harmed" and "wood from the youngest tree in the forest" and then meditate/pray at a holy site for days. No actual money required, just time and weird components decided by the DM. In fact, you earned XP for crafting in 2e. In 1e, you got extra XP for finding magic items, just like you got XP for any treasure.
3e also standardized teh definitions of rods, staves, and wands so many of the modern staples used to be in a different category.
Well then it seems that channeling spells during combat and using wands to top off after combat seems the most appropriate uses of my resources. Guess I haven't been playing clerics all that wrong to begin with, I just never really used wands to top off player out of combat. Thanks for all the feedback.I have one quibble with this concept. It can vary greatly depending upon the campaign and GM.
The current campaign I am in is one of those. We are now 7th level and have had exactly 11 days down time and almost every day other day has been non stop investigating if not fighting. So we have had no time to make anything significant ourselves. We have been in very tiny hamlets and villages that do not have wands of CLW for sale just a few potions, salves, and healing kits. We burned through our 1 wand very early not realizing it couldn't be replaced easily. We have been struggling to get by without a healer. I am actually retiring my wizard to make a life oracle to be the healer.
I don't know if this is the way the AP was written or if modified by our GM, but it can occasionally happens that a healer really is necessary.
What AP is that?
... What AP is that?
The AP is Carrion Crown. I know he has made some changes to the monsters, but he said the time pressure is as written and continues. Others on the boards have said it isn't in there. Some have said it's there as an option. Some have said it's there but not that extreme. I really don't care too much. It is just something we have to take into account.
We're still having fun kickin butt and not takin names.
... What AP is that?The AP is Carrion Crown. I know he has made some changes to the monsters, but he said the time pressure is as written and continues. Others on the boards have said it isn't in there. Some have said it's there as an option. Some have said it's there but not that extreme. I really don't care too much. It is just something we have to take into account.
We're still having fun kickin butt and not takin names.
After hearing* about this AP two times i am going to say that the time constrains aren't that hard.
*two different members of my group are playing this AP with two different groups.
The magic item creation rules have a section about making magic items while adventuring. It's a bit hidden though.
"If the caster is out adventuring, he can devote 4 hours each day to item creation, although he nets only 2 hours' worth of work. This time is not spent in one continuous period, but rather during lunch, morning preparation, and during watches at night."
So, yes that means that it needs 4 days to make a wand of CLW, but at least you can make it.
You might convince your GM to allow you to spend another 4h/day crafting during the evening or so, in addition to all the crafting spread during the day, that should allow you to finish in 2 days.
Even if written that way in the book none of us agree that you can craft while eating, studying, on watch, etc... It just doesn't make any sense.
Other than that, we have litteraly not had the time. We have often not had the time for the casters to sleep and prepare their spells. So they have had to go through 2 days with 1 days worth of spells.
Regardless, this is not the only campaign I have been in where time or purchasable item constraints have been significant. Just the most extreme example to date.
Your party just needs to find a single alchemist or bard or cleric or druid or inquisitor or oracle or paladin or ranger or witch with craft wands. Then you can get them made to order. Hell, you can order 7 of them, and they will all be done in a week.
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... What AP is that?The AP is Carrion Crown. I know he has made some changes to the monsters, but he said the time pressure is as written and continues. Others on the boards have said it isn't in there. Some have said it's there as an option. Some have said it's there but not that extreme. I really don't care too much. It is just something we have to take into account.
We're still having fun kickin butt and not takin names.
As written the first module is supposed to take 30 days, and if you finish it early you have forced down time.
... As written the first module is supposed to take 30 days, and if you finish it early you have forced down time.
Well this has next to nothing to do with the OP's question. So I don't want to derail his thread. But...
Virtually every day there was an attack and more townspeople died or were possessed. The couple of decent people in the town seemed to be constantly under unspecified threat from the other townspeople. Our information said that in just a few days the bad guys would manage to take over the one good spirit that was helping us. Then they would be virtually unstoppable. We didn't feel we could trust almost anyone in the town. So we were investigating and spying on everyone trying to figure out who was going to betray us next (apparently, almost everyone). Clues and potential assistance was located at wildly diverging points that we burned time rushing between (for clues and assistance that was pretty universally unhelpful) them. Then I'm also pretty sure the GM lost track of game time and said more days had passed than I thought had taken place.
All in all we had 2 days during the first module when we were too low level to do anything except me scribe a couple of scrolls. And 9 days after the first module before the second.
The second module has been even more rushed trying to get all the evidence before the mob kills the golem. We just finally got a 5 whole hours of time to start looking for vendors after we finished presenting our evidence and testimony.
1E healing was quite limited.
Cure Light wounds, d8.
1.5 added Cure moderate WOunds, 2d6+1., lvl 2.
CSW, level 4, 2d8+1.
CCW, level five, 3d8+3.
And then Heal, all but 1-4 hp, level 6.
There were no healing wands.
A Staff of Healing had limited charges. You could use each spell from it only 1/day per person. And you generally couldn't recharge it, nor make one easily.
Rings of Regeneration were the only unlimited healing availabile. Vampiric Rings of Regeneration were the utter bomb...fighters wearing one would basically never die.
Potions of healing and extra healing replicated CLW and CCW, respectively. Those, you could generally buy.
While there were scrolls of clerical/druidic spells, the players generally could not make them.
With far, far fewer healing resources, having a healer around was extremely vital, and you watched your HP total like a hawk.
But be also advised that PC's suffered much less damage and generally had a lot fewer HP then 3E+ characters do...except against magic direct damage. Fireballs and lightning bolts and magic missiles were much, much more dangerous in 1E.
===Aelryinth
Also, wands don't provoke in case you need to deliver some emergency healing in melee.
Strictly speaking, Infernal Healing, Lesser wands are the most cost effective healing per HP, but they are not useful in-combat and certain goody two shoes characters might object.
Just curious as to how Infernal Healing wands are more cost effective? After all, you have to pay for the material components. I don't know what a drop of devil's blood costs, but a dose of unholy water should be as expensive as holy water (if not more--holy water is sold at cost), and you need to pay for that component for each charge.
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Just curious as to how Infernal Healing wands are more cost effective? After all, you have to pay for the material components. I don't know what a drop of devil's blood costs, but a dose of unholy water should be as expensive as holy water (if not more--holy water is sold at cost), and you need to pay for that component for each charge.Also, wands don't provoke in case you need to deliver some emergency healing in melee.
Strictly speaking, Infernal Healing, Lesser wands are the most cost effective healing per HP, but they are not useful in-combat and certain goody two shoes characters might object.
There's no cost given in the spell component line of the spell description. Thus, it's assumed to be freely available in any spell component pouch. So a wand would cost the same as any other level 1 wand.
Ah, so if the Spell Description doesn't include a cost it's negligible, even if what it lists has a cost listed elsewhere.
Doesn't make sense, seeing as curse water has a 25gp component cost, and the result of that spell is the component for infernal healing, but I guess that's just the way it is. :P
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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1E healing was quite limited.Thanks, Aelryinth. I played a lot of 1E when I was younger and I only dimly remembered hit points being critical and a healer paramount. Danke for the specifics!
I wasn't playing back then, but I have an AD&D-based video game called Order of the Gryphon on my TurboGrafx 16. Lemme tell ya, you will NOT make it through that game without a cleric!
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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Ah, so if the Spell Description doesn't include a cost it's negligible, even if what it lists has a cost listed elsewhere.
Doesn't make sense, seeing as curse water has a 25gp component cost, and the result of that spell is the component for infernal healing, but I guess that's just the way it is. :P
If it bothers you, just assume you're using devil's blood instead of the water. ;)
If it bothers you, just assume you're using devil's blood instead of the water. ;)
It never really clicked, but hey, it sure makes that spell more attractive! :)
1E healing was quite limited.Thanks, Aelryinth. I played a lot of 1E when I was younger and I only dimly remembered hit points being critical and a healer paramount. Danke for the specifics!
You're welcome!
Faith healing spells were a 3E innovation in FR, giving maximum healing to members of the same faith. Just another way to make the 1st level slot useful to everyone.
Note that because they were still a healing spell, any cleric could swap in CLW or Faith Healing for a level 1 spell. In effect, you just healed those who worshipped the same god for more then other people.
It only existed as a level 1 spell, too, so limited usefulness.
Healers were extremely important in 1E.
===Aelryinth
Your not playing clerics wrong you are simply not availing yourself of items easily crafted or purchased. Personally I prefere items even like wands to be rare but that is another thread.
Personally I prefere items even like wands to be rare but that is another thread.
Then why bring it up?